Obtaining rights to a book?

Aegis

Aegis

Hi gang,

I was wondering if anyone here had experience of getting the rights to a book?

Specifically, I'm speaking to one of the two supposed copyright holders of some old short horror stories regarding our adaptation of 3 of those stories.

In the EU, (and most of the world) these stories are now out of copyright however, two companies in the US claim to hold the copyrights for these stories and I'm in the sticky situation of trying to negotiate a deal with one or both of them.

One of these companies hasn't responded to emails, phone calls, messages to their lawyers or good old-fashioned snail mail, the other other has recently been in touch and requested a proposal.

We've only just got enough finance to make the film so an up-front payment is out of the question - all I can offer them is a % of US profits (after my company has recouped production costs, repaid loans + interest etc.)

This obviously assumes that we'll find distribution...

If you were in my position, what would you offer them (%-wise) - also, should we ask for exclusive film rights for a fixed period of time (5 years?)

Thanks for any advice you can offer!
 
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If the copyright holder will not respond to you there isn’t much
you can do to compel them to do so. And since an up front option
is out of the question for the other story, you are in a very
difficult position.
Aegis said:
If you were in my position, what would you offer them (%-wise) - also, should we ask for exclusive film rights for a fixed period of time (5 years?)
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You are thinking of offering them a percentage of US profits after
your company has recouped all costs. And, of course, only if your
movie even sees US distribution. And not worldwide or even UK
profits. That doesn’t seem like a deal in their favor.

Do you have a track record of making high up front sales and
profits from your previously produced movies? If you don’t, what
do you have to offer them other than a percentage of what may not
be any money at all?

Ask for five years and offer 20% of your after expenses profits.
It can’t hurt. But realistically they are in the position of
control. Without them giving up the film rights you have nothing,
not even the right to make the movie. Perhaps you should consider
a deal that makes it mor profitable for them.
 
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Hi Rik - thanks for the advice! 20% is what we were thinking as an initial offer. As the copyrights have expired in the EU, we can make the film anyway - the problem is that the US is really our target market.

This will be our first feature, so we don't have a track record of any kind yet - all we can really offer them is an increased percentage - which I'm not opposed to but as I mentioned, the ownership of
these copyrights is disputed - should the other party contact us, I'm going to need to be able to offer them the same deal.

I was thinking of going up to 40% of US profits provided that they can provide proof of a claim to the copyrights - what do you think? Or would I be better off offering a % of worldwide sales?

Thanks again!
 
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I think you should be thinking less about trying to hold a carrot in front of their heads and more about writing your business plan for this film. The person did say proposal, right? Not 'offer'?

If you don't have money up front to option this, you're going to have to sell them on your skill as a filmmaker and in marketing. As Rik said, why should they care about "a percentage of what may not be any money at all?"
 
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Primarily, as it's been mentioned above, assure them of your capabilities- Past work, as it's your first feature, provide short films with strong production value, perhaps festival showings-

Secondly-although it relys on the first-convince that you can, and will, generate a profit. This will determine their interest, and be the deciding factor.

If neither are apparant, it would be a questionable decision, and risk, that could possibly tarnish "their" material. Be they the original proprietors or not.
 
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Thanks for the advice guys - it's a bizarre scenario and it may help for you to know it's regarding the copyrights for H.P. Lovecraft.

It's commonly believed that these are now out of copyright however, two separate companies in the US claim otherwise.

One company (a publisher) claims it owns the copyrights and that the claims of the other company are bogus - however, that other company is paid royalties for reprints by Penguin Books US (a company with presumably a very good legal department).

Rumour has it that the first company (the publisher) is the one that licensed 'At the Mountains of Madness' to Guillermo Del Toro (they've yet to confirm this to me though).

To compound issues, one of the stories we're adapting (The Thing on the Doorstep) is currently being made by Stuart Gordon as a feature - Mr. Gordon is currently in dispute with Re-Animator LLC. as it's claimed he doesn't have the rights to use the Re-Animator IP - it seems highly likely that he doesn't have the rights to The Thing on the Doorstep either (our publisher contact hasn't informed us that the film rights for that title are unavailable).

So we're in this weird twilight where there's no evidence this material is still in copyright (the Library of Congress has stated that they have no records of the copyrights ever being renewed) but in order to get our paperwork all in order we need an agreement with at least one, preferably both of these companies.

With or without permission we'll make this film (and, if necessary distribute it in regions where the copyright has lapsed).
 
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You have a very different problem than what percentage to offer.

The Lovecraft copyright issues are on going. That is going to
affect you when it comes to distribution. If anyone feels they own
the copyright they can hold up distribution.

But you have made your decision. You’re going to make the move
regardless so it doesn’t matter what percentage you offer to a
company that may or may not own the movie rights.

Good luck!
 
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This is why we're attempting to reach a deal with both parties (and why there's limits to what we can offer an individual company) - we also have a private investor that's due 10% of the worldwide profits so we have to be careful with what we give away.
 
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One more question - assuming we don't obtain the rights, do you think this will cause a problem regarding entering the film for festivals in the US? The H.P. Lovecraft film festivals frequently screen short film adaptations that don't appear to be licensed...
 
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Move the production to Canada. :P

As far as i know, 70 years after the death of the author, is the international norm (only in the US is it longer). When it comes to books, it has never been a case of transferring the actual _ownership_ to any publisher, only distribution rights. Only with movies has this been done, because studios are greedy and clever.

Lovecraft died in '37, meaning that you can safely use any work where he didn't transfer _ownership_ to anyone else that may have died after 70 years ago, or to a corporation. Distribution rights to the material is not the same as intellectual ownership.

Also there is apparently no written contract that says that he did transfer it, meaning nobody can prove anything and it's someone's word against someone else's.

Go ahead and make your movie in Canada, you have international law on your side. You may even have US law on your side, in the sense that nobody can wave a piece of paper in front of you that says that you cannot do this.
 
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Anti-X said:
Move the production to Canada. :P

As far as i know, 70 years after the death of the author, is the international norm (only in the US is it longer). When it comes to books, it has never been a case of transferring the actual _ownership_ to any publisher, only distribution rights. Only with movies has this been done, because studios are greedy and clever.

Lovecraft died in '37, meaning that you can safely use any work where he didn't transfer _ownership_ to anyone else that may have died after 70 years ago, or to a corporation. Distribution rights to the material is not the same as intellectual ownership.

Also there is apparently no written contract that says that he did transfer it, meaning nobody can prove anything and it's someone's word against someone else's.

Go ahead and make your movie in Canada, you have international law on your side. You may even have US law on your side, in the sense that nobody can wave a piece of paper in front of you that says that you cannot do this.
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Lovecraft stories are a mixed bag. The ones that were published in amateur publications are out of copyright, but he transferred copyright on several stories to various magazines which have maintained copyright on them, at least in the US.

I think his problem is if someone is claiming copyright, and if he makes the film without a clear right to do so, a flurry of letters from the attorney's of the alleged copyright holder could well scare away distributors.
 
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Ask for proof of ownership. Together with a lawyer. If they cannot produce anything, you have nothing to fear.

Maybe i'm just a naive foreigner, but i do assume that you actually have courtrooms over there. And courtrooms have to follow the law and base themselves on evidence, not word of mouth.
 
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Anti-X said:
Ask for proof of ownership. Together with a lawyer. If they cannot produce anything, you have nothing to fear.

Maybe i'm just a naive foreigner, but i do assume that you actually have c. The moment they fileourtrooms over there. And courtrooms have to follow the law and base themselves on evidence, not word of mouth.
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Yes, I am afraid you do have something to fear. If they are claiming copyright, whether they could prove it in court or not, they might file suit against you. If they do, there is a strong possibility your investors pull out, your distributor drops you, and you spend the next 8 years spending tens of thouands of dollars fighting a copyright case. In the end you might well win, but what good will it do you. It's actually much more likely no investor or distributor would touch the project with a ten foot pole based just on their unproven claim.
 
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