No more begging...

[mckinise]

About a month ago several members of my cast and crew lobbied for me to create a kickstarter campaign to help with our first feature. Having been through one horrific crowd funding experience I was very reluctant to embark upon another. After many days of them telling me their huge networks of friends and followers throwing money, I finally relented.

One month later with about a week left on a failing campaign, I can tell you that I will not ever do this again. Why? I had no help at all. I have raised $495 of the $1500 we needed through my own begging and pleading. The people who promised to help did absolutely nothing. They haven't even pledged a dollar of their own money even after vowing to help get it rolling (two actors excluded).

My DP, who was very vocal about us needing money and him being willing to do ANYTHING to to make this KS project and the movie a success, told me he will not ask people he knows; it is beneath him. The actress that was most vocal about getting it started has vanished (She still answers listings for casting calls). The rest of the crowd funding instigators have suddenly become busy.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that people are not obligated to do anything, but when you make vows to help complete a project and just disappear or you goad someone into doing something and just pull all support, that is a character issue.

I know that a big part of it is my fault. I allowed myself to be moved by false conviction. I took these people at face value, and now after a month of me shaking every tree I can find I am alone on a sinking ship with the same actors and crew wondering "If he can't even raise $1500 how is he going to complete a movie?"

Once again, I get it, but I am the one writing, producing, directing, editing, and marketing this project. Each of them (CREW) have declined to help do anything more than show up. They are more than willing to spend my money, eat my food, and pimp the finished product to make themselves feel special, but no one is wanting to do the hard work it takes to actually make something special.

That is the biggest issue. I am not a rich man. In a place where no one is getting paid, I have been paying these people out of pocket. They know that. They also know how hard I am working each day to make sure that everything goes according to plan, and we are always on schedule.

Hard as I try, I can not do everything. I am just one man. While I can not afford the crew I need on my current salary, I am wondering if I would be better off firing these people and finding a more competent crew.

 

[PaulGriffith]

Each of them (CREW) have declined to help do anything more than show up. They are more than willing to spend my money, eat my food, and pimp the finished product to make themselves feel special, but no one is wanting to do the hard work it takes to actually make something special.

....

Hard as I try, I can not do everything. I am just one man. While I can not afford the crew I need on my current salary, I am wondering if I would be better off firing these people and finding a more competent crew.

Probably not what you're wanting to hear, but how is the crew not soliciting funds relevant to their competency? It's not a camera op's job to raise money, it's the producer's. You have plenty of people willing to show up (it appears) for free and work on YOUR film but you're upset that they aren't putting the same time in on YOUR project as you are?

Let's flip the situation, have you ever solicited anyone else's film the way you've been asking people to do yours? Have you been spending hours and hours of pre and post production unpaid on someone else's vision?

Most of the crew I work with on projects I lead just show up for the production and I'm super thankful. The fact that anyone is willing to give me any of their time for free is great and I treat them as well as I can for it. Honor their time. There are a choice few that share the vision and help produce. They're leaders. They put in the hours with me in pre-production and post and I do the same on stuff they want to do.

If you're asking people to volunteer above and beyond, then you have to cast the vision better. Lead them and convince them why they should take part in your dream.

 

[PaulGriffith]

But yes, crowdfunding is work in and of itself. Unless you have a huge network of people with extra money and are a terrific salesman, your time is probably better spent raising the money elsewhere. Especially on a relatively small amount (relative to filmmaking in general). If you can shoot a couple weddings or several senior pictures or a web commercial for a local business and be guaranteed the $1500 you need versus the same amount of time it takes to crowdfund where there are no promises, it seems like real work and saving are the better options.

 

[Nafei]

Yeah.

Paul sums it all.

It's not their fault and you should be thankful that they are showing up and offering you their time. It's none of their business to raise money or anything for your movie. They are here to act and nothing more.
I know it's annoying if you are working hard and it feels like no one is helping but that's life and nothing is easy.

Find a way to tackle it. And good luck of course!

 

[mckinise]

Probably not what you're wanting to hear, but how is the crew not soliciting funds relevant to their competency? It's not a camera op's job to raise money, it's the producer's. You have plenty of people willing to show up (it appears) for free and work on YOUR film but you're upset that they aren't putting the same time in on YOUR project as you are?

Let's flip the situation, have you ever solicited anyone else's film the way you've been asking people to do yours? Have you been spending hours and hours of pre and post production unpaid on someone else's vision?

Most of the crew I work with on projects I lead just show up for the production and I'm super thankful. The fact that anyone is willing to give me any of their time for free is great and I treat them as well as I can for it. Honor their time. There are a choice few that share the vision and help produce. They're leaders. They put in the hours with me in pre-production and post and I do the same on stuff they want to do.

If you're asking people to volunteer above and beyond, then you have to cast the vision better. Lead them and convince them why they should take part in your dream.

In a normal situation I would say that is it has no bearing on them as professionals. It is my responsibility as a producer. In this case, however, these people lobbied for this kickstarter for the better part of two months before I finally agreed.

This is not just MY production. We entered into this as a partnership. I was writing the script and directing. We were supposed to be sharing in the duties. They started strong, but then tapered off once they realized how much work it was.

I have been paying them up until this production. We had been talking about doing something big for months. I told them I could not afford that type of project, so they agreed to help out with the production. Each person was given a part of the production duties. This KS campaign was supposed to flow alongside the first month of pre production. None of them did anything so I ended up having to do their jobs.

I agree with everything you typed in most situations. I especially agree with casting the vision better. In this case it was really more of them getting a taste of what I have to do each time and not wanting to fulfill their "self imposed" obligations.

 

[mckinise]

But yes, crowdfunding is work in and of itself. Unless you have a huge network of people with extra money and are a terrific salesman, your time is probably better spent raising the money elsewhere. Especially on a relatively small amount (relative to filmmaking in general). If you can shoot a couple weddings or several senior pictures or a web commercial for a local business and be guaranteed the $1500 you need versus the same amount of time it takes to crowdfund where there are no promises, it seems like real work and saving are the better options.

I agree. I appreciate your input. I will have to reevaluate the situation and see if there are other options available.

 

[mckinise]

Paul sums it all.

It's not their fault and you should be thankful that they are showing up and offering you their time. It's none of their business to raise money or anything for your movie. They are here to act and nothing more.
I know it's annoying if you are working hard and it feels like no one is helping but that's life and nothing is easy.

Find a way to tackle it. And good luck of course!

Thank you. I completely agree in normal circumstances. In this case we entered into a partnership (No Contract - silly me). I guess I wanted it a bit more than everyone else.

 

[rayw]

... it seems like real work and saving are the better options.

Yup.

We/I did the math on this not too long ago and came to the same conclusion: http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=47322

Below a certain threshold there's no point in doing a crowdfunding campaign for the time it takes to devote to it.
Just get a job.
It's only worthwhile when you hope to attain a fairly nice chunk O' change + have realistic expectations of achieving such.



Mckinise, I sympathize with your frustration and can only flinch at a likely sense of betrayal by those who talked the talk but failed to walk the walk.

 

[Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC]

Cut everyone who pressured you to crowd fund and replace them with team players. You don't need them. There are better people out there.

I tried crowd funding myself and failed. I am not a beggar either. There are other ways to fund movies.

Make the film you can afford to shoot. You are the one paying for it. Don't spend beyond your means.

 

[mckinise]

Yup.

We/I did the math on this not too long ago and came to the same conclusion: http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=47322

Below a certain threshold there's no point in doing a crowdfunding campaign for the time it takes to devote to it.
Just get a job.
It's only worthwhile when you hope to attain a fairly nice chunk O' change + have realistic expectations of achieving such.



Mckinise, I sympathize with your frustration and can only flinch at a likely sense of betrayal by those who talked the talk but failed to walk the walk.

Thanks Ray.

 

[mckinise]

Cut everyone who pressured you to crowd fund and replace them with team players. You don't need them. There are better people out there.

I tried crowd funding myself and failed. I am not a beggar either. There are other ways to fund movies.

Make the film you can afford to shoot. You are the one paying for it. Don't spend beyond your means.

I will have to align myself with a more team oriented group. I will also have to write more within my means. Thank you for the sound advice.

 

[VivaChiba]

Don't be bitter towards your team - at least they stuck with the project (and why the hell should they pay money for what ultimately sounds like your film)?

How about, instead of moaning, you give us something to learn from?

- What was your pitch (note: an uninspiring project won't inspire many to donate to see your end product)?

- What was your genre (horrors can be made on $10K, but an action flick? Forget about it!)?

- What were your offered benefits to the donators?

- Did you post a video for your campaign?

- Did you post a teaser for audiences manque to get excited about?

- Had you built up any kind of pre-hype for your film before releasing the KS campaign?

- Were your cast featured in the video if you posted one?

- (Be honest) Did you come across as capable in your campaign, or as a wannabe begging for scraps?


I honestly don't think that $1,500 is a lot of money to raise - I'd probably hope to gain 100x that if/when I went to Kick Starter - and considering how many "bad" projects have raised far more, and I'm not talking about those with established "names" attached, either, I think you'd be doing us all a service by answering the above questions (as well as any details I missed).

Thanks in advance, and don't give up! Analyse your mistakes and learn from them.

 

[Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC]

When you are making films, you need to surround yourself with team players. Cut those who coned you into crowd funding.

I cut a DP who was too wrapped up into himself to be a team player. He was full of lies and deceit too. I replaced him with a new DP who is honest and a team player and I got a call from a returning crew member who congratulated me on bringing in our new DP because he brings more harmony to the whole production.

There are better people out there. The phonies who wanted you to crowd fund for them were only interested in a bigger pay day. Dump them. They are easily replaceable. They are unknowns in the business. Don't let no names hold you hostage.

 

[CraigL]

It's tough when you do the work on something only to be left in the lurch one everyone else realizes they realize they need to put up or shut up. Shows a very weak character. Seems like that part escaped a lot of people's attention here in their answers.

As with anything like this, all we can do is learn, and press forward. Good Luck.

CraigL

 

[DDK]

Par for the course with people I think. I never, ever, believe anyone who makes a commitment anymore because experience has taught me that people are full of shit and will promise anything to get what they want and then never deliver on it. I would say that is the vast majority of people on the planet.

Then there are people like me and possibly you who actually commit to their commitments and work to fulfil their promises. To us it's frustrating because we know we come through and so can't understand why others never do, even when it's in their own best interests.

People are fundamentally lazy, selfish and cruel. Don't expect anything different and you'll never be disappointed. And on those extremely rare occasions where someone turns out to be reliable, kind and selfless, you're genuinely surprised and heartened and do your best to keep that person as a friend while letting everyone else slide by.

I have very few friends as a result. Sorry I couldn't be of more help. Next time, don't rely on anyone else is about the only advice I can give.

 

[mckinise]

CraigL and Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC You have both helped me feel better about the situation. Thank you.

DDK, Your words are very helpful. My problem has always been giving people trust before they earned it. Well, that has gotten me into more trouble than if I had been more cautious.

 

[wheatgrinder]

Someone has to lead, someone has to keep the vision, that's you. Its by will power alone that films are made. You speak of being lobbied, then you speak of sharing the responsibility...
either its your project or it was a collective project, not both.

It was your decision to do a KS, that failure is on you, not them. Now that the KS has failed your looking weak by blaming them, your vision has faltered.. where there is no vision the people parish....

You should take 100% responsibility for the KS failure and try to rekindle the fire for the project that was originally there and ask them to recommit and make this great thing. Your commitment to them seems week, don't expect their commitment to you to be strong.

 

[Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC]

Yeah, take the lead with an all new cast and crew.

Take the lead and just say no to crowd funding.

Look for other means to fund your films.

Work with those who want to work with you. The world is a big enough place.

 

[DDK]

It was your decision to do a KS, that failure is on you, not them.

How is that even remotely reasonable or fair?

He said he didn't want to do it and only did it because everyone pushed him towards it and promised their support. The decision to do it was made on the basis that the support would be there because he'd had a poor experience previously and didn't want to do it.

The onus for that support is on those who promised it. Without that support the project failed. The project never would've been undertaken if it wasn't for those promises. So how is that failure on him? You know, other than not deciding to cave in to peer pressure in the first place, earning him the enmity of the flakes who abandoned him when the going got even remotely close to requiring a modicum of effort?

Sounds like a lose-lose scenario to me. Case in point, don't work with flakes at all.

 

[Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC]

I grew up being ignored most of the time by my folks growing up when company was around and when we had no company constantly being told that I would fail in everything I try to do by folks. That is no way to grow up. Even my cousins who were over as company observed this. They asked me not so long ago, how did I survive such negativity. How indeed?

I no longer keep company with negative people. I only work with positive people because their positive can-do aura keeps me going.

You don't need those money gougers. Look for people who are into this business for more than their egos and money. They are out there. Look for those who are more interested in making a great film.