My first question

Luigi

Luigi

Hi all,

I hope this is the correct room for my question. If not, I apologize.

I am a musician. I've been composing music for years, but I'm a newbie in the
Films arena.

Now I'm composing music for Films and Documentaries, but I never got
commission to create music for Films. So I don't know what are the modalities.

In other words, if you need specific music for your production, do you ask for
a particular genre od mood ( e.g. epic, soft, sad etc.) or for a specific time
(30 secs, 1 minute etc.)? Do you send the musician a file (AVI or Mpeg etc.)
for the synchronization?

I'll be grateful to you all for your advice and suggestions.
Thank you in advance!

Luigi
 
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First we'd take a look at some of your previous work, then we'd tell you how great it is. Now that we're interested we'd give you a run-down on the ambiance we want you to create with the score, perhaps make suggestions, give you artists that capture the feel we're going for e.g

"I'm thinking full orchestra, Luigi...What about Caruso? Lanza?"

After we've gave you the material--scripts/music/similar movie score suggestions, you've studied the hell out of it, you have some time while we shoot/edit to muster up some ideas. Then, you're given the final cut, the ideas have now blossomed, you finally get to see the footage, and you work your magic.

OR

It could begin after the material has had its final spa-day in the editing room, and the puppy is all yours.

It just depends on the timing, both how long the composer can sit with one project, and how long the finished edit can sit with the composer.
 
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Papertwinproductions said:
First we'd take a look at some of your previous work, then we'd tell you how great it is. Now that we're interested we'd give you a run-down on the ambiance we want you to create with the score, perhaps make suggestions, give you artists that capture the feel we're going for e.g

"I'm thinking full orchestra, Luigi...What about Caruso? Lanza?"

After we've gave you the material--scripts/music/similar movie score suggestions, you've studied the hell out of it, you have some time while we shoot/edit to muster up some ideas. Then, you're given the final cut, the ideas have now blossomed, you finally get to see the footage, and you work your magic.

OR

It could begin after the material has had its final spa-day in the editing room, and the puppy is all yours.

It just depends on the timing, both how long the composer can sit with one project, and how long the finished edit can sit with the composer.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much! It's all clear and really useful to me.
Just another question (perhaps a stupid question) : about scripts, music, footages etc, are you Filmmakers used to send and receive via Internet? Is it possible an on line collaboration?

Thank you again.

Luigi
 
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Hi Luigi o/

Pretty much all my audio is done via file transfer, or DVDs through the mail. Here's how it usually works, for me.

1) I edit the film and do a rough mix on audio. I then burn a visible timecode onto the video (V1).

2) Then I add some temporary music tracks, so the composer knows what kind of music I'm wanting in that particular area. I'll also add video titles (using them as notecards, basically) to make reminders, where needed. Anything else I think is important to the score/soundtrack gets added to actual video, too. (The details won't get lost). This is (V2)

3) V1 & V2 are uploaded, and a link sent to composer. If the video files are too large (oh yah, the videos are usually half-sized) then they get burned to DVD and mailed. I send both V1 & V2, so the composer has a semi-clean copy to work with - V1 having just the actual film dialogue & normal sounds. V2 cluttered with notes & all kinds of distracting sounds.

4) Kick back & wait a while. Eventually I get back all the songs/score I need, along with a cue-sheet that tells me where to place each piece into the timeline. (That's where the timecode burn comes in)

5) I send everything to sound mixer person, 'cos I suck at sound.

There's several steps inbetween, but that's basically back & forth communications. (Yes, that sample sounds good; no, that sounds bad; whatever)

Is that what you're after?
 
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Zensteve said:
Hi Luigi o/

Pretty much all my audio is done via file transfer, or DVDs through the mail. Here's how it usually works, for me.

1) I edit the film and do a rough mix on audio. I then burn a visible timecode onto the video (V1).

2) Then I add some temporary music tracks, so the composer knows what kind of music I'm wanting in that particular area. I'll also add video titles (using them as notecards, basically) to make reminders, where needed. Anything else I think is important to the score/soundtrack gets added to actual video, too. (The details won't get lost). This is (V2)

3) V1 & V2 are uploaded, and a link sent to composer. If the video files are too large (oh yah, the videos are usually half-sized) then they get burned to DVD and mailed. I send both V1 & V2, so the composer has a semi-clean copy to work with - V1 having just the actual film dialogue & normal sounds. V2 cluttered with notes & all kinds of distracting sounds.

4) Kick back & wait a while. Eventually I get back all the songs/score I need, along with a cue-sheet that tells me where to place each piece into the timeline. (That's where the timecode burn comes in)

5) I send everything to sound mixer person, 'cos I suck at sound.

There's several steps inbetween, but that's basically back & forth communications. (Yes, that sample sounds good; no, that sounds bad; whatever)

Is that what you're after?
Click to expand...


Yes Steve, I need just this kind of info. Thank you very much.
I'm learning a lot thanks to you all. For example, I didn't know that the timecode could be burned in a video.
I've found visual examples on the net. As I use Cubase and I can load videos, I'm doing a number of tests, and they are working fine.
In Cubase I can load only AVI and Mpeg. Do you think it is sufficient, or I need to buy some other software?
Thanks again.
Have a wonderful Sunday!

Luigi
 
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You should also be in contact with the Supervising Sound Editor. Most of the time - especially with indies - there is minimal or no contact whatsoever. However, on projects where the composer (I'm an audio post guy) and I collaborate the project can be brought up one more level.

According to John Cage "Music is the organization of sound." Many sound effects have very musical qualities, and very unusual sounds are more and more common in film scores. In the feature film I recently completed one character had an obsession with raising guinea pigs; their squeaking was very important to the soundscape of the characters residence. (There were supposed to be hundreds by the end of the film; they could only get a few dozen so by using stuffed toys and moving the real ones around with the camera angles - and many layers of guinea pig sounds - the illusion of hundreds was convincingly achieved.) The composer used strings and some synth sounds that occupied the same sonic landscape. We collaborated on the problem and the result made the scenes even stronger; I was able to "play" the guinea pigs as a part of the score and the score as a part of the guinea pigs when I mixed, and highlighted the characters obsession.

If you have a tense scene in a factory with pounding machines a percussion heavy score can fight the sound effects - or from your point of view the sound effects will fight with the percussion heavy score. If you collaborate with the sound team you both can occupy the sonic space without fighting each other, and in the process enhancing the tension of the scene.

Initially you will be sending mixed cues to the audio post team, but as the scope of your projects increases you may be asked to supply stems. Another reason to be in touch with the sound team is to find out in which format the files should be sent. Also, unless the reverb is inherent to the sound, the score should be fairly dry; we can always make it wetter.
 
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Alcove Audio said:
You should also be in contact with the Supervising Sound Editor. Most of the time - especially with indies - there is minimal or no contact whatsoever. However, on projects where the composer (I'm an audio post guy) and I collaborate the project can be brought up one more level.

According to John Cage "Music is the organization of sound." Many sound effects have very musical qualities, and very unusual sounds are more and more common in film scores. In the feature film I recently completed one character had an obsession with raising guinea pigs; their squeaking was very important to the soundscape of the characters residence. (There were supposed to be hundreds by the end of the film; they could only get a few dozen so by using stuffed toys and moving the real ones around with the camera angles - and many layers of guinea pig sounds - the illusion of hundreds was convincingly achieved.) The composer used strings and some synth sounds that occupied the same sonic landscape. We collaborated on the problem and the result made the scenes even stronger; I was able to "play" the guinea pigs as a part of the score and the score as a part of the guinea pigs when I mixed. and highlighted the characters obsession.

If you have a tense scene in a factory with pounding machines a percussion heavy score can fight the sound effects - or from your point of view the sound effects will fight with the percussion heavy score. If you collaborate with the sound team you both can occupy the sonic space without fighting each other, and in the process enhancing the tension of the scene.

Initially you will be sending mixed cues to the audio post team, but as the scope of your projects increases you may be asked to supply stems. Another reason to be in touch with the sound team is to find out in which format the files should be sent. Also, unless the reverb is inherent to the sound, the score should be fairly dry; we can always make it wetter.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much! Another wonderful page of the manual you all are writing for me. :)
This Forum is really fantastic, sincerely.
I don't know if I can do something useful to you, but if you need, I'm here. And this is for all Forum members.
Thanks again.

Luigi
 
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Luigi said:
In Cubase I can load only AVI and Mpeg. Do you think it is sufficient, or I need to buy some other software?
Click to expand...

I outsource almost all my audio. The people fixing my terrible sound are almost all using ProTools on Macs. I always send QuickTime files.

That's just my experience, though. (I use Adobe on Windows, so there's even more issues - such as no audio exports in OMF, which all of those Mac-weasels request)

I'm not really familiar with Cubase, so couldn't say.

Alcove is a pro, btw. I'm not. :)
 
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Zensteve said:
I outsource almost all my audio. The people fixing my terrible sound are almost all using ProTools on Macs. I always send QuickTime files.

That's just my experience, though. (I use Adobe on Windows, so there's even more issues - such as no audio exports in OMF, which all of those Mac-weasels request)

I'm not really familiar with Cubase, so couldn't say.

Alcove is a pro, btw. I'm not. :)
Click to expand...

Thank you Steve.
About Cubase, it allows to import video files in AVI and Mpeg format. Then you can build the soundtrack and add it to the video. Or you can save the soundtrack as Wav or Mp3 etc. also in OMF format.
You not a pro? Maybe, if you say that, but be sure that your suggestions and advice are gospel truth to me. :)
 
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Another thing that you have to keep in mind is that composing for film requires an entirely different mindset. The role of score is to - by turns - be supportive, reactive, or even occasionally to take the forefront. And, narrative films are entirely different from documentary.

In narrative filmmaking everything revolves around the story. The story is made up of characters communicating by the means of dialog in (hopefully) evocative visual and sonic settings. The job of the composer (and the audio post team - and hopefully all of the other crafts) is to enhance the characters emotions, to provide additional tension and release, and to propel action.

Dive back into your studies about sound - frequencies and the like. The human voice is most prominent in the 2kHz to 4kHz range, so you will want to leave a "hole" of those frequency in the score during dialog. Percussive sounds also tend to interfere with dialog. Now these, obviously, are not hard and fast rules, just a few of the many things to keep in mind.

I would suggest that you attend seminars about all aspects of filmmaking. I have found them to be extremely helpful. There's a group in my area that gets together once a month, and I've attended/participated in seminars/discussions on acting, writing, directing, cinematography, etc., and may possibly be giving one on sound design in the fall. And, of course, you should participate in composers forums, and be listening to lots film music.
 
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Alcove Audio said:
Another thing that you have to keep in mind is that composing for film requires an entirely different mindset. The role of score is to - by turns - be supportive, reactive, or even occasionally to take the forefront. And, narrative films are entirely different from documentary.

In narrative filmmaking everything revolves around the story. The story is made up of characters communicating by the means of dialog in (hopefully) evocative visual and sonic settings. The job of the composer (and the audio post team - and hopefully all of the other crafts) is to enhance the characters emotions, to provide additional tension and release, and to propel action.

Dive back into your studies about sound - frequencies and the like. The human voice is most prominent in the 2kHz to 4kHz range, so you will want to leave a "hole" of those frequency in the score during dialog. Percussive sounds also tend to interfere with dialog. Now these, obviously, are not hard and fast rules, just a few of the many things to keep in mind.

I would suggest that you attend seminars about all aspects of filmmaking. I have found them to be extremely helpful. There's a group in my area that gets together once a month, and I've attended/participated in seminars/discussions on acting, writing, directing, cinematography, etc., and may possibly be giving one on sound design in the fall. And, of course, you should participate in composers forums, and be listening to lots film music.
Click to expand...


Thank you again. It's all very clear. Only some doubts:
about the hole between 2 and 4kHz, and any other equalization, is it me (composer) who has to do it, or the post team (obviously in a ideal organization)?

about seminars, do you know if there is something on the Net?

Thanks!

P.S.: I'm going to write a post in the Making The Film/Music in Film room, about Audiosparx. Your replies would be greatly appreciated. :)
 
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It's not EQ, it's instruments that occupy that range - brass and some reeds (sax, etc.), for example.

As far as seminars, look for films groups, etc. in your area; face to face interaction is a lot different than web based stuff.
 
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