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Making a small space larger -- in post!

Cracker Funk

Cracker Funk

Okay, so let's say that we want to start with a shot of someone coming up through a door in the floor. The camera is level and facing forward, fairly wide, then starts a slow dolly back. As we dolly back, we reveal a much larger space, in which there are many other people coming up through other doors in the floor.

But all we've got is a single 8'*4' piece of dummy floor to work with.

As far as production is concerned, it doesn't seem too difficult to shoot. Seems to me like all you'd really have to do is keep the same focal length through all the shots, keep the dolly speed consistent, and move the camera as needed (since the dummy floor will of course stay in place). Big green screen behind the dummy floor, with blue (or red) balls marking each corner of the dummy floor.

Green screening should be easy enough. Tracking should be easy enough. But what about the seams? Each piece of 8*4 dummy floor is going to be placed next to another one, in post. How do we make it look like it's the same floor?
 
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Sounds like a good experiment! Your greenscreen can work. It may be easier to shoot all the shots static and move the camera in post. As it pulls back, it is revealing all the other comped shots. It's rather easy to stick them all together.

You could also dolly back and stop as soon as you have a full frame of the door and person, then move back the camera in post.
 
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Ernest Worthing said:
Are they zombies?
Click to expand...

Maybe. Dangit, I thought I was being slick. :lol:

Didn't wanna say too much because it's only a potential project, haven't agreed with my folks if we actually wanna go forward with it. But yeah, it's the quintessential shot of zombies coming out of the ground, and I want to dolly back to reveal a ridiculous amount of zombies coming out of the ground. So, the "floor" is actually dirt.

Scoopic, I wouldn't want to keep the camera static because I'd want their perspectives (in relation to the camera) to change, in relation to the moving camera.

I can definitely shoot some test-footage, without building the dummy-floor. For test-footage, I can shoot the dolly movement with just regular-ol' dirt ground, and then piece it together in post. I'm just lost for what type of effect that would be in After Effects, for making it look like two surfaces are actually one.
 
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I'd do the dolly move in post. Create your 3D set assembled from pictures and green screen in the actor's movement. Then, simply affect the dolly move in AE.

Bit of work in it, but nothing overly difficult or unattainable.
 
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This is an old pic. But, as a quick example, there were only two toasters in this shot and I certainly could have done it with one.

Toasters1.jpg


Now, imagine a zombie coming out of each toaster...:D
 
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I don't have a lot to give here since I'm ignorant about effects like those. I leave those to much more talented folks.

This may be something you do not want to do and it is only my personal opinion as someone who does not like CGI and only wants to use GS when necessary: Film each 'zombie' rising in the same spot you have. Use closeups with various small differences in the 'door/dirt' which can be followed up with a wide shot of all of those 'zombies' walking together.

Knowing you, I think you must have already thought of this and something in the specific vision you have is probably not allowing you to do this... but without knowing your specific vision, I can't so much but offer general advice like this.
 
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pepper jack said:
Hahaha damn he got you.. I did not even think of that but then again I don't notice stuff like that. Sorry can't contribute but I thought it was funny as hell.
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:)

Not really. We all think about and work through the same processes since everyone here is thinking about film and creating stories.

It would be funny if this happened on a forum of another subject but not so surprising that it happened on a film forum, considering we are thinking abt film when typing here.
 
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A physical dolly move will really complicate your compositing, even with trackers.

I'd suggest compositing your scene in an aspect ratio wider than needed, and arrange a crop or zoom out in the edit. That will eliminate a lot of work, and still give a similar effect. I can send a few links, if you need something to look at.

.
 
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Multiple element dolly shots can be a b!t@h. The word of the day is 'precision'. Move slowly, measure twice, and control your variables.

You're right, you'll need to match lenses (exactly), camera height (to the millimeter), and pan/tilt angle (to the degree). Don't eyeball it; measure camera tilt angles with a smart level (precision), or an iPhone inclinometer app.
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I can see why you want to do the dolly. It can really make your shot, but it can also ruin the whole composite. Done right, we'd be using motion control to create a precise and repeatable camera move (precision). In your case, you need to work out a reliable way to dolly the camera back at a repeatable speed; a motorized winch running off house power is one possibility (but I've never tried it). I wouldn't recommend pushing the dolly by hand, because you're going to shoot many passes, and having all of them be in a slightly different speed will complicate things in the comp.

While we are on the subject of the dolly, you'll want to shoot from a track so the move is perfectly straight. Once you start to dolly, the track will soon become visible in the bottom of the frame. This is what we call a "giant problem". I once did a 15' dolly back where we had the same issue, but we were shooting moco, and used a nifty solution that is not applicable to your case.
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Since the camera is moving, you can't retime the green screen elements or slide the edit (to adjust when each zombie emerges). As a result, you'll need to plan the timing/choreography for each zombie. Use a stopwatch (precision) to build a list for the timing of each element in the shot. Then, when you shoot each pass, you run your stopwatch and call the cue for the zombie to emerge.
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I don't like the idea of a 4X8 piece of dirt. The long/straight edges of the rectangle will be hard to blend into the plate. I suggest you paint the 4X8 green, and then dress the action area as a round-ish blob of dirt with a varied edge.
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Assuming everything goes right, your passes should blend together and the perspective will be exactly the same across all the plates. I've been on several motion control shoots where we repeated the same setup in two locations and nothing lined up (someone missed something). So, be ready to corner pin your green screen elements into the BG plate; You'll need to place visible tracking markers on at least 3 visible corners of your 4X8. You'll also have matching markers in the background plate.
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I'm certain you already know this, but you should shoot the BG plate first, and then recreate the camera move and lighting on the green screen shoot.

There are a couple ways to approach pan/tilt in the shot as well, but for now, let's stay away from that.

If you have some detailed storyboards, I'd be happy to go over them and come up with a specific shooting plan with you.

Thomas
 
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Haha, Scoopic, I love it! And thanks for mentioning feathering; I honestly didn't know which effect I might use to blend one plate to another.

Thank you all for such great responses. This is very helpful.

Rok, I am intrigued by the method you outlined, thank you so much! For simplicity, I definitely would not want any pans/tilts. I think the dolly tracks could simply be cropped out (as will most of the frame). The only thing that actually needs to be keyed is the hole in the ground, and what's behind it.

Good thing is there's no need for me to actually construct the fake ground, in order to do test-footage. I'd love to hear more from you, but for the time being, allow me to tool around with it (especially since me and the band haven't yet agreed on the specifics of the music video).

Steve, before posting this question, I actually had considered the possibility of forgetting about any dolly, while still multiplying the number of fake pieces of ground with zombies crawling out of them. Instead of a dolly, of course I'd use a succession of static shots, each one further back then the next. Overall concept of marrying footage in post would be the same, just without the added headache of a moving camera. You mentioned some links? Yeah, I'd love to see them.

Ernest, I'm definitely interested in keeping the FX as practical as possible, save for one or two compositing shots. To sum it up, my vision is blood. Lots and lots of blood, entrails, and brains. And blood. :D

jax, I'm not really familiar with what you're suggesting (I've done very little effects work). Also, it's not one actor's movement, but many (not sure if that changes things for what you recommend).

wheaty, that's F'ing sweet! I'd totally rent whatever I need to be able to freeze time. I'd gladly turn this into a frozen dolly. If it's affordable, I'm into it!

Cheers!
 
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the application of the repeatable dolly move is all I was thinking. Not that you should do a time freeze.. .

program the dolly move.
run dolly move while..
Record take with fake door in the middle
reset the dolly.
run the dolly move while
record take with fake door to the right
reset the dolly...
run the dolly move while..
record take with fake door to the left..
...
lather rinse repeat
 
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wheatgrinder said:
the application of the repeatable dolly move is all I was thinking. Not that you should do a time freeze.. .

program the dolly move.
run dolly move while..
Record take with fake door in the middle
reset the dolly.
run the dolly move while
record take with fake door to the right
reset the dolly...
run the dolly move while..
record take with fake door to the left..
...
lather rinse repeat
Click to expand...

Yep, I knew that was your intent, but I got all excited about time freeze and forgot to mention the original question. :lol:

I looked into it, and the rig isn't all that expensive. I'll have to do extensive test-footage before even considering renting it, but it's enticing. Thanks for mentioning it!
 
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