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likable protagonist

dlevanchuk

dlevanchuk

Does the protagonist always have to be likable right from the start?? My main character is kind of an unsympathetic asshole, that goes through "becoming sensitive good guy" kind of a deal..
Could he become likable just from being an interesting person, like a weird hobby, or different way of talking?

For example "devils rejects". What about main characters that made I like them?? Their loyalty to the family and trust or by making cop guys look like butchering maniacs?

anyways, youe thought?
 
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I think your main character does have to be likeable. Even in antihero based stuff like "The Shield" (which is fantastically written) you really like and identify with the character in many situations, even though he is basically a horrible person.

I'm not sure how this thought process applies to "Fight Club" though. Great movie, and Norton was great, but how much would any of us really want to hang out with a Schitzoid masochistic anarchist?

I've thought about this question a lot in the past, and generally, I think the audience needs to be able to identify with the main character, to be drawn into their world.
 
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The Main character does not have to likeable but does have to be shown in way where we can sympathize or empathize with him/her.

Some examples off the top of my head:

Michael Corleone
Travis Bickle
Tony Soprano
 
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Do we really sympathize with Corleone, or Soprano though? I think they are despicable characters, and they are most definitely demonized. I feel so sympathy for them at all. Not to say that that makes them bad character or bad movies at all. They are good, but the kind you are suppose to demonize rather than sympathize with.
 
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This is the way i see them.

Corleone: In the end, the man was such trying to keep his family together and safe.

Bickle: Absolutely nuts but i feel sorry for him. He wants the world to be better and fit in but he just cant.

Soprano: I empathize with his situation when he has to do things he doesnt even want to at time just so he is not taken out himself.
 
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You can watch Rain Man. Tom Cruise's character is a complete asshole in the beginning. I remember getting really pissed at Cruise's character because of the way he was treating his disabled brother throughout most of the movie. But by the end, you like him.

Watch it; maybe you'll get something out of it.
 
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Tom Cruise's character in Magnolia is also a good example of someone who isn't the least bit sympathetic, relatable or likable. The character and the movie works though.
 
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I've read more than a few screenwriting books that say something to this effect:
"The protagonist doesn't always have to be LIKABLE, but they should be INTERESTING."

In at least two of the cases, they reference the Melvin Udall character from As Good as it Gets.

So it's a matter of not relying on the "pet the dog" (or "save the cat", depending on which book you read. Heh.) technique to get the audience on the character's side. ...it's more about quirks or otherwise interesting peculiarities, mannerisms, traits, etc. that make a person want to keep watching what this character is gonna do.

Another technique for a "bad" good-guy, is to contrast him against an even worse antagonist.
 
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I agree with Ernest but would add to that that I don't think they have to be likeable from the start at all.

The whole point of your protagonist's journey is to show how he/she is affected by the events in the plot. As a result there are plenty of movies that start with a protagonist who is hard to like but end with them having undergone a profound change. This transformation will only be as cliched as you make it, if you want the general life changing experiences then that's fine but, in my opinion, the more unusual, the better.
 
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I agree - just as long as the character has/does SOMETHING that keeps the audience wanting to watch.

(Because if they're just plain hateful, cruel, spoiled, whatever, all for the sake of it... who would invest time into that character?)
 
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A friend of mine (a cop) was murdered outside of my apartment years ago. The killer was attempting to steal my neighbor's car and my buddy walked up on him. By all accounts, the killer was a serious douche bag with absolutely zero redeeming social value. I have kicked around telling a fictionalized version of his story (he was eventually killed by police when he attempted to shoot his way out of a wrecked [stolen] car). My only problem has been that I don't want the audience to identify with the asshole. I want the audience to cheer when he gets gunned down (like I did). If I figure out how to tell that story without making the main character likable or have audiences identify with him but still want to watch it, then I'll write it.
 
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Lucky Hardwood said:
A friend of mine (a cop) was murdered outside of my apartment years ago. The killer was attempting to steal my neighbor's car and my buddy walked up on him. By all accounts, the killer was a serious douche bag with absolutely zero redeeming social value. I have kicked around telling a fictionalized version of his story (he was eventually killed by police when he attempted to shoot his way out of a wrecked [stolen] car). My only problem has been that I don't want the audience to identify with the asshole. I want the audience to cheer when he gets gunned down (like I did). If I figure out how to tell that story without making the main character likable or have audiences identify with him but still want to watch it, then I'll write it.
Click to expand...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TktOCF-iBTQ

What about something like this (great movie BTW)? This is from the POV of the killer, and I don't think anyone thought this character was likable at all (unless they really hated John Lennon, I guess). Then again, I could see how some people could identify with him, but there's no way to prevent someone from doing that, no matter how messed up the character is.

It depends how personal you want to make this movie, if you just make it another movie about a stupid asshole criminal who guns down your buddy (not trying to down play what happened btw, sorry for your loss), then I don't see how it's going to stand out among other movies like it.

Or maybe a "crash" type story, where it shows the lives of the criminal and the cop, and how a simple thing as a neighbor trying to do the right thing (stopping someone from stealing a car), changed both of their lives forever. I dunno, I'm just throwing out stupid ideas here :D
 
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There's nothing stupid about those ideas. I don't want to humanize this scumbag. This would be very personal to me. I have begun thinking that a short might be the way to go with this. My problem is making the story compelling while allowing the viewers to maintain an arms distance from the main character.

In reality, I only know a few things about this guy; he was a career criminal and a violent offender, he was a career car thief, he killed my friend in cold blood without hesitation, his girlfriend turned him in, he was in another stolen car when the police located him, he led a miles long pursuit across two parishes (that's what we call counties), he crashed the stolen car and attempted to shoot his way through dozens of pissed off cops, and he's deader than shit. The guy was an animal with no remorse or humanity to him. After his death, a reporter asked the girlfriend why she had turned him in and she said that she was only with him because she was too scared to leave.

How do you tell a story from the perspective of one person and have the audience side with the supposed antagonists?
 
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Sorry to hear about your friend, Lucky, and you definitely should make the film. As far as making the audiences dislike him, don't give him any reason for doing the things he does. Show him going from one reprehensible act to another, with no motivation or Freudian excuse for his acts. Show the fallout; the chaos and pain he causes in others' lives, and make sure the audience knows he's aware of it. If you humanize all the characters around him, you can provide places for the audience to emotionally connect to, at the same time making the main character more reprehensible.
 
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That's an excellent idea. The vast majority of the film would take place between the murder and the pursuit leading to his death. I was thinking just a brief introductory setup before the murder then the fallout for the scumbag's family, his terrified girlfriend, his face on the cover of the newspaper and on every TV station, his mother asking him to turn himself in, the police show up at his mother's house where he's hiding out and his girlfriend signals the cops with her eyes that he's there, the cops stake out the house and wait for him to come out so that he doesn't kill his family, the pursuit, and finally the shootout. I'm thinking that the end could be similar to "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" where the action stops as the bullets start flying and the screen goes red then fades to black. I would then put a series of still photos (like newspaper pictures) in the closing credits showing the aftermath of the shootout.

How long do you guys think that this should be for festivals? Any ideas for improvements?

P.S. I'm sorry that I seem to have hijacked this thread.
 
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I also like JoshL's idea, how the movie itself is centered around how his stupid choices are slowly tearing his personal and family relationships apart. Might want to find out more about him, though, so you can ease into it a little better and then it's more than "this guy is a scumbag" the entire film. You'll also want a bigger storyline for your friend (the cop), so that when the main character (the scumbag) kills him, the audience actually carries about him (the cop), instead of it just being some random guy trying to do something heroic.
 
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