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Length Matters...

NickClapper

NickClapper

Ok, so we're wrapping up the rough cut of The Flight of the Flamingo, and it looks like it's going to be a bit shorter than expected. It's an 85 page script and I'd like to aim for an 80 minute running time, but, at the moment, it's not quite there.

We don't have the time or resources to do any more shooting, so that's out the question. What I'm looking for are creative way that we might be able to increase the running time of the film.

At the moment, one of the things I'm going to work on, is a pre-credit sequence, sort of like at the end of the Hangover which is going to be a montage of 'Missing Dog' posters (the film is about people who steal dogs). I'm going to offer people the chance to send in photos of their dogs in order to have the chance to have their doggy in the film, and then I'll make them into 'Missing Dog' posters and put them up on various iconic landmarks in London.

Does anyone have any experience of this issue? If so, how did you flesh out your movie?
And, even if you've not got experience specifically, do any of your creative minds have any ideas for how we could add some minutes to the film?
 
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TheArtist said:
How far are you from the 80 minute goal ?

Why does it matter that you hit that mark ?
Click to expand...

We're not hugely far (I'd prefer not to disclose anything too specific) but, for me, it's important that we get to 80 minutes in terms of festival programming. 80 minutes is already quite a brief feature, but it is undeniably a feature length movie. At 70 minutes it's slightly in the hinterland between short and feature in programming terms...
 
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Okay, I had a hunch it would be a festival related constraint.

Well, I suppose there are no deleted scenes to be put back in.

Can you at least record voice ? This is just a wild suggestion but I'm thinking voice-over introduction. Visually, you can use pictures but not just cut them togther but rather with camera movement (I forgot the name of the technique. shoot that, just found it on Google : the Ken Burns effect).

Anyway good luck with it.
 
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TheArtist said:
Okay, I had a hunch it would be a festival related constraint.

Well, I suppose there are no deleted scenes to be put back in.

Can you at least record voice ? This is just a wild suggestion but I'm thinking voice-over introduction. Visually, you can use pictures but not just cut them togther but rather with camera movement (I forgot the name of the technique. shoot that, just found it on Google : the Ken Burns effect).

Anyway good luck with it.
Click to expand...

I might well be able to get more footage, I just can't shoot any more narrative stuff. The script originally opened with a voiceover that I scrapped but, hypothetically, if I have some footage that suits it, I could record that and bring it back in. Thanks for the suggestion!

The actors are still around, largely, but our lead actor has shaved his head, so there's no way we would be able to get anything more with him for a couple of months (not to mention the fact that Phil's in Amsterdam and I don't have the funds to organise any more shoot days, not the inclination to rewrite the script to add more...something).

mlesemann said:
music sequence using a local indie band behind a montage of some sort? of the dogs maybe?
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Music isn't a problem, it's what image we put it over. So, yes, we've got an original score and a number of bands interested in having their music in the film, it's just making sure that we have something appropriate to support that...
 
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I just watched a fantastic indie feature (with A-list actors) that ran 75mins. It was short but not so short that it didn't feel like a feature. Actually I felt like it was the perfect length and am glad they didn't pad it up.

Sorry, I know those aren't lengthening suggestions. But maybe it won't be the end of the world not to hit 80min exactly?
 
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NickClapper said:
The actors are still around, largely, but our lead actor has shaved his head, so there's no way we would be able to get anything more with him for a couple of months
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Hats! I remember a reality show a while ago ran into a similar problem. The eliminated contestants had their heads shaved on the show. Later the producers realized they needed more of those confessional shots where the players talk to the camera. Obvious problem is obvious: they couldn't show the shaved heads without spoiling who went home. So they just put a bandanna on everyone's heads and no one was the wiser.
 
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NickClapper said:
We don't have the time or resources to do any more shooting, so that's out the question. What I'm looking for are creative way that we might be able to increase the running time of the film.

At the moment, one of the things I'm going to work on, is a pre-credit sequence...

And, even if you've not got experience specifically, do any of your creative minds have any ideas for how we could add some minutes to the film?
Click to expand...
Man, that no time or resources is a monster to get around, even for ten minutes, which I acknowledge is a huge chunk of shoot+edit time.

Any possibility of a no-sh!ttin' no budget shooting work around?
I mean ANY possibility.
One actor + a cell phone + car + camera + audio + two hours of shooting a talking head?

Ten minutes total credits, front and end, is gonna raise all kinda irritant flags. Big time.

I note in many films where otherwise simple tasks have some Rube Goldbergian way to fill up some time.
If it's meaningful then it's great.
If it's filler it's shite.


SKYFALL - For James' fitness test how many exercises needed to be shown? Director could have just cut out all of that and had another character tell M he failed fantastically. Filler.
The three helicopters arrive at the deserted island where Silva has just shot his mistress. They didn't show how Silva ACTUALLY got from the island to the glass cage deep inside the new MI6 digs. So, the transportation + dressing change was all cut out - or never included.
Are you sure you don't have any A to B events that could be "picked up" with minimal time+resource expenditures?

PROMETHEUS - Had a longer than needed "descending through the clouds and through the mountain ranges" sequence.
The "Hi! I'm the biologist!" "I'm the geologist. Now, f#ck off" could have been cut.
The "Christmas tree to denote the passage of time" scene could have been cut.
These are all fillers.

THE RAID:REDEMPTION - That whole drug processing area battle could have been cut.

DARK SHADOWS - pretty much the whole film could have been cut. Ha!
No, seriously. WTF was that werewolf daughter thingie supposed to provide? Cut city.



So...
Phone calls in a single location are a cheap as h3ll way to "develop" characters, something critics are ALWAYS belabouring.
Can someone call his/her mom? Their bookie? Their girl? Their guy? Can a character be constantly fighting their phone's technical problem's?
Instead of the cliché track shot of the messy young man's apartment hitting the alarm @ 9:35 can you get some additional "messy dog's ruined the setting" shots?
People walking their dogs at your local park? (Keep the camera mostly on the dog and maybe you can skip the release form since you're not recording any faces.)
Random pretty city shots to drop in there four or five seconds at a time instead of straight cuts?
Add more establishing shots.

Yeah. I KNOW you said you haven't the time or resources - but please don't just make all the cuts 1/2sec longer at each end fluffed with five extra minutes of credits at both ends! :no:

The actors are still around, largely, but our lead actor has shaved his head, so there's no way we would be able to get anything more with him for a couple of months
Click to expand...
Shoot him in the shower or under the bed covers or doing something with his hands using a lot of closeups.
 
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I like the pre-credit sequence, pair it with a really good song and I think you've got something.

I'm not sure what your intro is like either, but tacking on a slightly-longer opening credit sequence might be good too. That's a no-no online, but with a feature you already have a captive audience that paid for a ticket/DVD/rental/VOD etc. Keep it location related, shots of the city, people walking dogs, etc. Much of that could be stock. Or maybe do a doggy POV thing, low angle camera bouncing about walking up to the food bowl, rolling on the carpet, etc with lots of good sound design and grunting/panting/slurping? On top of either of those you could put some dialogue from an actor, on the phone or talking to a friend.

Of course, none of that may work, I haven't seen the script haha. Hope it sparks something regardless, we usually have the opposite problem and have to trim down.
 
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Thanks for all the suggestions guys! I've gotta to run out, so can't directly address them but lots of good ideas. Just a few things:

- It's going to be highly impractical to shoot anything more with the actors. Logistically and artistically, not a strong option.

- I'm definitely not going to just bulk it out for the hell of it. If it's 75 minutes, it's 75 minutes, but I'd rather get to that 80 minute mark if I can.

- We currently have an excellent animated opening titles sequence by the wonderful ITer Jooble. It's only about a minute long but it looks great.

POV dog idea could be a lot of fun! We shot the film on the FS100 and I only have my 550D at immediate disposal, and I don't want there to be a massive discrepancy in terms of quality of footage.

The one actor I do have constant access to is our lead dog actress! She lives in my house.
 
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Ah! Just remembered - there's the opening sequence filler "preview" of "the f#cked up situation we are in now" which occurs somewhere in the middle or end of Act II.

Open with the cliffhanger scene.
Cut to "Two Days/Weeks Earlier... " where we begin to learn how our characters got into that f#cked up situation we just saw.
Eventually catch up to the opening sequence.

Viola! Time filler! :yes:
 
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Chris Nolan's "Following" is only 69 minutes. It got into Slamdance and launched the career of one of Hollywood's most sought after directors. In my opinion, the movie should be exactly as long as it needs to be, and not one frame longer. :)

That being said, I'll wrap my brain around possible things you might want to add. Off the top of my head, the only things that come to mind would require the cast, and more shooting days. It may not need to be super complicated, though. Musical montages can be totally improvised, though it does require a good deal of planning (for locations, ect.). Still, though, that would require at least some of the cast. Are you sure it's not an option to shoot additional photography?

It also might end up being the case that we'll get a better idea of what might need to be added, upon viewing the entire piece as a whole, instead of in the bits and pieces it's currently in. One of the things I often get compliments on for Antihero is the chapter cards, and those were a total afterthought (and Dready's idea, BTW). I didn't even realize I needed them until the first rough cut was complete. For all we know, after watching the rough cut, you may decide that narration is needed. Maybe?
 
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My advice is to stay true to your vision. If you think the film is fit at 62 mins or at 180 mins, let it be just that. Do not, as the director, change your film to fit the standards of others.

Now, if you are thinking as a producer... your concern is a legitimate one. In that case, you are clever enough to devise a plan, knowing how best to lengthen it since you know the film like no other.

I know you are heavily invested in this film, playing many roles in the crew. Easier said than done but just take a step back and act like a producer. The decision you will reach will be much more appropriate than one we could provide you with.

:)
 
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I like the missing dog posters and doggie POV ideas. I would have the K-9 POV as he walks through the park/city/neighborhood, stopping every so often to pee on a pole/wall/hydrant/etc. Every time poochie stops to wee, there is a missing dog poster in the shot. Don't focus too much on the posters to let them be a sort of subliminal message. Add in lots of typical K-9 sounds peeing/farting/scratching/licking/barking/etc. with accompanying camera movements to make the opening sequence more humorous. You could even have the camera stop and squat, shaking ever so slightly, then have it turn around and tilt down to view a nice fresh turd. A bit of up and down motion of the camera can indicate that poochie is either smelling or licking his poo. The sound effect will determine which (or both).
 
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Jumping on the "a film is as long as it needs to be" train.

If you're going to tack anything in/on, do it as ending credit breaks or even after the ending credits. That way you won't mess up the flow of what you have right now, and the audience gets treated to a bonus afterwards.
 
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Creating and maintaining the appropriate pace to keep the audience's attention and interest near boiling point is one of the most difficult aspects of film making (at any budget level) and is a particular failing of the vast majority of low/micro budget films.

In 20 years of professional post-production I would say that "pace" is one of the most, if not the most common word/request I've heard from directors. Lengthening your film, for the sole reason of making it longer rather than to improve the pacing, is going to make good pacing and maintaining interest levels far more difficult than it already is.

G
 
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I am very, very consciously aware of pacing and I feel like I need to keep reiterating that whatever I do to try and increase the length won't be gratuitous. At the moment the film is very trim, which is a good thing for indie films in my opinion, it's just a little bit too trim.

The script originally had two things that I sort of discounted during production but might bring back in- a prolepsis scene at the beginning and a voiceover. I'm hoping that I'm gonna be able to have a couple of hours shooting with Phil over Christmas so, hopefully, we can get some good footage for the voiceover and then adding back in the prolepsis scene at the beginning should bulk it out.

Thanks for the ideas. The doggy POV thing is something that I think could, potentially, work, so I'll have a little think about how we might be able to work with that...

Any other ideas are very welcome, but please be sure that I'm not just doing this for the hell of it, it's entirely practical reasoning and I won't do anything that upsets the pacing of the film.
 
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I don't know if it'll work but have you considered:

A flash back with your housemate. Give some extra background information.... to help explain her character/motivation.

A deep thought fade to black voice over for the audience to ponder over... preferably something related to the story.

You could take some more establishing shots for your scenes if you're missing a few ;)
 
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