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Is this allowed? (Re: Continuity Editing)

L

liezl

Hey guys, I've got a very "newb" question...

Following continuity editing, are the following allowed:

1. A long shot from behind a character cuts to a full shot from in front of the same character.
2. A full shot of two characters in dialogue cuts to a medium shot of the same two characters still engaged in dialogue.
 
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Both are allowed.

One of the amazing things about editing software
is you can give it a try, watch the scene and get a
feel if it works for your project. If it feel right to the
editor and the director it's the right choice. If the
editor and/or director don't like the cuts you can
try something different.

Editing isn't always about "rules", it's more often
about feeling - what works for the feel of the scene.
What you describe even has a name; that's often
called a "jump cut". Not only are jump cuts allowed,
they can be very effective.
 
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Yes, you can as Rik said.

You just have to be careful you don't create what's called a 'jump cut'. This is where it's an awkward or jarring cut to something. This tends to happen when you take a shot and change the angle and distance just a little, but not enough. Every now and then this can work, but it has to be juuuust right.

Damn Rik. You said it all. Nevermind.
 
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I understand the jump cut. I just wasn't sure whether a change of shot size in two subsequent shots counted as such. Isn't the rule (in continuity editing) something like any two subsequent shots of the same subject must be not be less than 30 degrees apart? I think that's it. But does that still count when the shot sizes are change?

But in the case of #1, is that counted as "crossing-the-line"?

By the way, I'm asking these questions because I am in the process of drawing up a storyboard and shotlist.
 
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Yup, wat Directorik and M1chae1 said.

The only thing i can do is give you more info which is that anything less than 30 degrees looks like a jump cut. Anything more and you should be safe.

And remember more than 180 and ur breaking the 180 degree rule.
 
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Actually, I don't think your question really has anything to do with continuity. In regards to the shot sequence you have planned, all that matters (as far as continuity is concerned) is that your talent repeat the same dialogue and actions, performing it the same way every take.

Unless you've got a seasoned cast, one that is experienced with, and good at keeping their actions constant though different takes, I would recommend including a couple close-ups in your coverage. You might end up not using these closeups, and perhaps you don't want to, but they sort of function as a continuity insurance plan. You might want to cut from one shot to the next, but the problem is that in the first shot, your actor had his hand on his waist, and then in the second shot, his opposite was on his opposite waist. Well, with a closeup at your disposal, you can cut away to just his face, making the disconinuity of his hand-on-waist moot.

As far as your actual question is concerned, the only thing I'm concerned about is that I worry you might be crossing the line of action. I'm not really in the mood for explaining the 180 degree rule, cuz you can google it. Anyway, if you're worried about crossing the line of action, you can throw in some "neutral" shots -- in fact, a head-on closeup is a neutral shot, then you can cut to either side of the line of action.
 
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Going from behind the characters to infront of the characters isn't breaking the line. It's riding the line. :)

If the camera keeps on the line of action (drawn right in the middle of the actors) than you can cut to infront of them, and stay on that line of action.

It may not look great, and it may look awesome. There are a lot of films that use this. Like when a person walks into the camera and it transitions from their covering the lens to black, to black and them walking away from the camera...same sorta thing.

And it's not 'continuity'..that's a different thing.

Cracker - I'm not sure a CU of an actor would be considered a neutral shot to use to then break the line of action. I thought a neutral shot is a cut-away...like...to a tea kettle whistling, or a shot of the clock, or anything other than the actors.

And also for reference (for those that don't know), you can break the 180 degree rule if you *show* the camera breaking it. If the camera swings around during dialog and breaks the line, and you *see* it...that's OK.
 
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Some more questions...

1. What if you're on the 180 degree line?
2. Is the line created by two subjects or characters or is it created by the camera and a subject?
3. How would I cut from a full shot of a couple talking, to a closer shot of their upper halves as they're talking?
 
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The "rule" can be broken. You might not get the full
feel of it with a storyboard and you certainly won't with
a shot list, but you will when you are editing. So make
your list of shots to get, draw out your storyboard and
then go shoot. Make sure you have plenty of coverage
so when you are editing if you don't like the way the
cut works you have options.

No real way to know if the change in shot size will work
or not until you're editing.
 
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M1chae1 said:
Going from behind the characters to infront of the characters isn't breaking the line. It's riding the line. :)
Click to expand...

Well, sure if the camera is positioned correctly. But, judging by the type of question the OP has asked, I'm kind of assuming he/she is a bit of a noob, and perhaps won't know how to position the cameras properly.
 
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The line is something very basic (although it can get quite complicated to manage sometimes eg in action sequences with lots of characters) once you have an understanding of it but when you're learning, a thousand different questions and scenarios pop up in your head.

I would say you should go research and learn abt it as much as u can over google first.
 
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This doesn't seem like a researchable, Googable,
issue to me. It's a choice. That's why I'm suggesting
liezl shoot the shots and then sit down in the editing
room and try out what works.

Even the 180 degree "rule" can be broken with amazing
impact.
 
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directorik said:
Even the 180 degree "rule" can be broken with amazing
impact.
Click to expand...

True.

But i think it would be better if he/she googled it. Bc then you get all sorts of sites and blogs where ppl post screenshots from movies and draw lines on it and show you how the line is being managed in different situations.

Seeing that, rather than hearing abt it from us, will help the OP understand better and faster and answer a lot of questions in his/her head. Like the last 3 they asked.

And once they're done learning all the basics, they can ask us the more complicated questions which we can debate abt in here.
 
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directorik said:
It's a choice. That's why I'm suggesting
liezl shoot the shots and then sit down in the editing
room and try out what works.
Click to expand...

Also, I'm afraid I have to respectfully, strongly, disagree with this. When I'm shooting, I'm thinking very much about how it's going to cut together. Well, I have at least a little bit of an idea of how it will cut together because I've done it a bunch. But our OP will almost be shooting blindly, not having had the experience of finding out which type of shots typically cut well together. I really think he/she should learn a little more about the editing process before shooting, and I don't think trial/error is the way to go.
 
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Even the most seasoned DPs and directors squabble on set over whether something is breaking the line or how to shoot a shot without breaking the line. I hear it all the time.

In theory it's a very simple concept. Draw an invisible line through the actors, then only shoot on one side of that line. Done. Well, yes and no. There will be times where actors may have to acquire strange body language to cheat to the camera, or the geography of a shot is complicated, so the line causes headache.

There are times you will hate the line. You will curse it.

But overall, it's pretty easy to follow. And for the most part, I'd do my best *not* to break that line...it's there for a reason. DirectorRik is making a statement which--although true--should not really be considered until later in your game.

Cheers.
 
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