editing Input and Suggestions ...

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Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC said:
Space is one big vacuum with no air. That means sound has no way to travel. How many science fiction TV shows and films break this rule, like I did, and add sound effects to outer space scenes like engine sounds, laser fire, and explosions?
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Actually, it's not just the "no sound in space" rule which is broken. There are countless deliberate examples of breaking the laws of physics in film/TV sound. In professional film sound it's usually difficult to find any scenes where this isn't being done at least once and I'm not just talking about the Sci-fi genre. Film sound is not about recreating sonic reality but about creating an illusion of (a fictional) reality. Knowing when, how and how much these rules of reality can/should be bent goes to the heart of what is "Sound Design" and it takes years to learn.

A good practical demonstration of this fact can be found in the "Sound" section of the extras DVD for the film "Master and Commander". Peter Weir and Richard King (the Sound Designer) go on about the lengths they went to, to get authentic sound but the rest of the "Sound" documentary demonstrates that this "authentic sound" is in fact a complete lie! For example, they showed how they recorded live cannon fire, using period cannons and cannon shot but they had to wrap the entire barrel of the cannon in several layers of carpets because the "authentic sound" of the cannon was so far from expectation, that it sounded completely unrealistic! The "authentic sound" of the cannon they recorded (before they used the carpets) sounded like the mixture of a flint-lock pistol being fired with the decay of a small church bell!

Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC said:
Okay. I studied enough previews to see how I botched the sound balance. I made corrections and rendering a revised edition for tomorrow.
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I'll wait until you've made another mix to comment further then.

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I'm not sure I can comment on your mix, at least not without appearing rude. At this point, your mix demonstrates every technical and artistic error imaginable, off the top of my head: Editing clicks, overload distortion, phasing, inappropriate sound editing (inc. dialogue), inappropriate choice and use of SFX, Foley and ambiances, little or no perspective or depth, incorrect balance and panning. Plus of course there is no music or sound design yet. As a guide for your composer or as a starting point for audio post, what you've got so far is OK.

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Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC said:
Where can I start to make it better?
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You're handing the music off to a composer, are you handing the sound editing, sound design and mixing off as well? If so, there is not much more you need to do besides getting all the production sound and other recordings organised and making sure you know how to create an AAF or OMF, ready for delivery to the audio post person/people.

If you're not handing it off then what you are asking me to do is explain how to do three significant filmmaking roles, not something I can do without writing a book or two! My strong advice is to give the job to someone who knows what they are doing with sound, I'm not sure there is any excuse for not doing this!!! If you feel you absolutely have to do it yourself then the first stage of audio post is the sound editing, so you should start there. First thing I would do is to get rid of all the editing clicks by re-editing on zero crossing points, get rid of all the abrupt cut offs by extending the ends of the audio clips which are cut off. Go through the dialogue, a word at a time, editing out clicks, pops, mouth smacks, etc. Also part of the editing process is to sync appropriate SFX and Foley. What is "appropriate" is your decision but there has to be some logic to it. For example, you have a scene where someone is getting punched and is then thrown on the ground. We hear them landing on the ground but not the punches, grunts or any other sounds, there's no logic to that. Just having a few SFX or bits of foley stuck in with silence in between won't work. For those scenes where you are going to have sound, rather than just music, you will have to record/edit in/construct ambiances, background SFX and Foley to create the illusion of a real acoustic space. You will also have to use your judgement of what is "appropriate" with regard to the abstract SFX you design. For example, you use a reoccurring sound effect near the beginning which sounds like an unprocessed cheap cabinet door being opened. I personally wouldn't call that appropriate. Once you have the editing sorted out you can concentrate more on the sound design, before you finally move on to mixing the whole thing together.

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AudioPostExpert said:
You're handing the music off to a composer, are you handing the sound editing, sound design and mixing off as well? If so, there is not much more you need to do besides getting all the production sound and other recordings organised and making sure you know how to create an AAF or OMF, ready for delivery to the audio post person/people.

If you're not handing it off then what you are asking me to do is explain how to do three significant filmmaking roles, not something I can do without writing a book or two! My strong advice is to give the job to someone who knows what they are doing with sound, I'm not sure there is any excuse for not doing this!!! If you feel you absolutely have to do it yourself then the first stage of audio post is the sound editing, so you should start there. First thing I would do is to get rid of all the editing clicks by re-editing on zero crossing points, get rid of all the abrupt cut offs by extending the ends of the audio clips which are cut off. Go through the dialogue, a word at a time, editing out clicks, pops, mouth smacks, etc. Also part of the editing process is to sync appropriate SFX and Foley. What is "appropriate" is your decision but there has to be some logic to it. For example, you have a scene where someone is getting punched and is then thrown on the ground. We hear them landing on the ground but not the punches, grunts or any other sounds, there's no logic to that. Just having a few SFX or bits of foley stuck in with silence in between won't work. For those scenes where you are going to have sound, rather than just music, you will have to record/edit in/construct ambiances, background SFX and Foley to create the illusion of a real acoustic space. You will also have to use your judgement of what is "appropriate" with regard to the abstract SFX you design. For example, you use a reoccurring sound effect near the beginning which sounds like an unprocessed cheap cabinet door being opened. I personally wouldn't call that appropriate. Once you have the editing sorted out you can concentrate more on the sound design, before you finally move on to mixing the whole thing together.

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This five minute preview is being made with no budget.

The music composer is scoring it with hopes I can come up with money at a later date.

The whole Artemis meets the cyborgs scene dialogue was ADRed. The best ADR Roberta's ADR recorded in Serbia and emailed to me. My friend did horrible work in her studio with the rest of the cast. There is echo in those files because a TV was playing back bad audio for the actors to rerecord and the microphones picked it up. I had to mix originally bad audio with the ADR audio and add the sound effects to cover it up the best I could.

The panning can be better. I was trying new software for audio that is not working out.

I can redo the panning with Sony Sound Forge. At least that pans sound better.

The off camera dialogue switched to one speaker I observed done with some previews I was watching on YouTube.
 
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Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC said:
The whole Artemis meets the cyborgs scene dialogue was ADRed. The best ADR Roberta's ADR recorded in Serbia and emailed to me. My friend did horrible work in her studio with the rest of the cast. There is echo in those files because a TV was playing back bad audio for the actors to rerecord and the microphones picked it up. I had to mix originally bad audio with the ADR audio and add the sound effects to cover it up the best I could.
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The quality of the ADR is a problem but a relatively minor one compared to all the other problems I mentioned in my previous posts. Throwing the odd SFX in to hide a problem, with no other logic and without context or any illusion of acoustic reality is jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. You are solving one problem by causing a bunch of arguably worse problems.

Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC said:
I can redo the panning with Sony Sound Forge. At least that pans sound better. The off camera dialogue switched to one speaker I observed done with some previews I was watching on YouTube.
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The panning was one of the major problems, which should be quick and easy to fix.

Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC said:
This five minute preview is being made with no budget.
The music composer is scoring it with hopes I can come up with money at a later date....
I'm trying to do the audio the best ways I know how.
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I hate to be harsh but you appear to be way out of your depth with all the audio roles. Can you not try and find someone to do the sound for you on the same basis as your composer?

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For example, should I remove all sound effects for animated text?

As a big fan of Superman The Movie, I recall a blast of steam sound effect was used for every animated title in the opening credits

Should I remove the sounds because the text is better off without sound?
 
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Ok. I removed the drawer sound effect from the animated titles.

I added in jet turbulence sounds for the interior ship scene with the turbulence because it makes senses with the ship shaking.

I'll upload it tomorrow.

The changes should help to put things in the right direction.
 
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Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC said:
Maybe you can recommend which sound effects should be removed and which ones changed to what?
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You're asking me to create an SFX and Foley spotting list, which is a time consuming task and only solves one of the major problems. Once the SFX and Foley have been edited in, it will still sound terrible unless they are mixed correctly; processed, positioned (depth as well as left/right) and balanced.

Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC said:
Someone I had in,mind had to move to India because the job situation here is bad... There is no one else at this time.
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Have you tried Mandy or CraigsList? I'm sure there are many audio students or others starting out in sound who would find your short useful practise, to build experience and get a credit. Although it's a bit of a pain to find someone else and exchange materials, etc., it's still going to be far easier to achieve a half decent mix than you trying to do it yourself.

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Here are the revisions.

I am just asking to help put this in the right direction.

I'm not asking you to design the foley or anything like that.

It's like people here ask for help with their script writing.

My music composer added in some sound effects in the 22 minute pilot and helped with the sound mix.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUsJpP78bNs
 
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Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC said:
I am just asking to help put this in the right direction. I'm not asking you to design the foley or anything like that.
...If you can't help out by help guiding it, maybe someone else can. Otherwise, why critique at all?
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I gave you as much help as I could and pointed you in the right direction in my post #46. I've been involved in quite lengthy threads here on dealing with editing clicks and crossfades as time goes on I'll try to help and advise on other audio problems as they come up on this forum and as I have time.

I know this sounds harsh but the problem with your mix is that it contains every major audio error/problem (and numerous other minor ones) I can think of. It would take a long post just to list them all, let alone address how to start fixing them. That's why the best advice I can offer is to somehow find someone, anyone, even a student, who has some knowledge/experience with sound for picture.

Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC said:
Okay, I came close to doing an All-Nighter reworking some key sound effects and mixing the sound... It still needs work, but less than before.
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I hate to say it but to be honest it sounds worse than before. There are more sounds in there but along with more sounds, there are also more problems. The panning of the dialogue, for example, is certainly worse than before. I know that criticising without solutions isn't a great deal of help but at least being aware there are problems is the first step on the road to solutions.

If you absolutely cannot find someone to do the sound for you, follow what I advised in post #46: "First thing I would do is to get rid of all the editing clicks by re-editing on zero crossing points, get rid of all the abrupt cut offs by extending the ends of the audio clips which are cut off. Go through the dialogue, a word at a time, editing out clicks, pops, mouth smacks, etc." When that's done, we'll take the next step. I'm not sure if helping you this way, a step at a time, is a workable solution, time wise.

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