Indietalkers: How has indietalk evolved?

kinglis said:
WOW
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I did say it was just my .02 :)


I did not create the site-so I don't want to speak for the Site founder, but my experience the past 2-3 years that's what this site is about-the community, the sharing, and the learning seem to be the focus.


Yes this is a VERY unusual site in that regard-I'd be interested to hear in some of the posters who have been here for a few years to get their input.
 
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Tinalera said:
People have varying reasons for being on these forums, and not all of them are all pursuing the film industry hardcore-that's my experience anyway.
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This is a valid point.

Its also the biggest dilemma for me. Should I be nice for the hobbyist or be harsh to better prepare filmmakers for their careers? It can't possibly be both because developing a tough skin is absolutely necessary if you want to make any money at all from your film projects.
 
GuerrillaAngel said:
This is a valid point.

Its also the biggest dilemma for me. Should I be nice for the hobbyist or be harsh to better prepare filmmakers for their careers? It can't possibly be both because developing a tough skin is absolutely necessary if you want to make any money at all from your film projects.
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It is a tough question, I know-and it helps when people post their stuff if they say what they are using:

RE: ARE they on a low/zero budget using lamps with daylight bulbs and a 300 dollar camcorder? Or are they using Fresnel lenses for lighting, a 3000 dollar camera, and a portable sound booth?

Usually you can tell often right off the hop what type of budget they are using, and particularly if they say things like "my first film" or whatever, then one can be easier on it than someone who seems to have a semi-pro to pro setup where people using that sort of equipment you would THINK would know (though that's not always the case) about using 3 point lightiing :)

It's almost a case by case basis :)
 
Tinalera said:
It is a tough question, I know-and it helps when people post their stuff if they say what they are using:

RE: ARE they on a low/zero budget using lamps with daylight bulbs and a 300 dollar camcorder? Or are they using Fresnel lenses for lighting, a 3000 dollar camera, and a portable sound booth?
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One shouldn't know whether they're using low budget or high budget lighting equipment, its either lit properly or not. Home Depot lamps can mimic pro-gear if you know what you're doing. So, if the lights bad, its bad. Low budget is no excuse.

Likewise, with low end equipment, you can get good images if you know the limitation of your camera and don't force it do what it cannot. Create a film around what it does well.

If a video wasn't properly lit and camera pushed beyond its capabilities, sure, we'd have to note it.

But I agree, if somebody admits to being a newbie and working hard on it, yeah, we can be gentle! :)
 
Yeah, I think it's not mutually exclusive. If you see kids having a good time, then friendly and helpful comments are good.

Someone is trying to go pro, then give it to them straight.

As far as hobbyists, It's hard to know why someone would pick this as a hobby. It's fun, but way too expensive to do as a hobby. Usually the hobbyists just don't spend the money or time, and end up heavily diluting the pool with stuff no one wants to watch, to where those making a serious effort are having a harder and harder time getting noticed.

I talk to actual industry people once in a while about the indie clips they see on the internet. Universally, they say "I watched 20 crap videos in a row, and never looked at it again." So when 800 people make a $10 video for every person that's trying to accomplish something, it really unfairly kills the chances of those that do work hard. People just don't have the stamina to sort through piles of garbage to get to each good film, and that's hurting the whole indie film industry.

I do understand that this forum is for everyone, that's just my perspective. Imagine if some girl went to Julliard, bought a Stradivarius, and then was forced to get in a line behind 40,000 people with Kazoos for a job interview. After 20 kazoo players get in, they close down the interview and send everyone else home, without even looking at them. In a sense, that IS happening.
 
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Nate North said:
Yeah, I think it's not mutually exclusive. If you see kids having a good time, then friendly and helpful comments are good.

Someone is trying to go pro, then give it to them straight.

As far as hobbyists, It's hard to know why someone would pick this as a hobby. It's fun, but way too expensive to do as a hobby. Usually the hobbyists just don't spend the money or time, and end up heavily diluting the pool with stuff no one wants to watch, to where those making a serious effort are having a harder and harder time getting noticed.

I talk to actual industry people once in a while about the indie clips they see on the internet. Universally, they say "I watched 20 crap videos in a row, and never looked at it again." So when 800 people make a $10 video for every person that's trying to accomplish something, it really unfairly kills the chances of those that do work hard. People just don't have the stamina to sort through piles of garbage to get to each good film, and that's hurting the whole indie film industry.
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Just wondering, what brought you to indietalk? Did you hear about it in the industry-just wonder what it was.

Just the reason why I ask is that there are a few people who come through here, like yourself who want to make a name in the industry and do some serious stuff with filmmaking, and they echo kind of what you say, and I just wonder what reputation Indietalk has out there-because some come here and their reaction is that indietalk was something very different from what they expected-they didn't expect the community and laid back atmosphere.

I mean from what I understand there are some very good, very professional oriented websites out there for indie film makers who want to make a serious go at the industry, and it sounds like they'd be right up your alley :)
 
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It's interesting how the thread is evolving (and I'm not complaining), I was trying to get an idea of how the website has changed over the years...but it's more a study of what people NOW are seeing on the site, and what their views.


Just interesting to note :)
 
Tinalera said:
Just wondering, what brought you to indietalk? Did you hear about it in the industry-just wonder what it was.

Just the reason why I ask is that there are a few people who come through here, like yourself who want to make a name in the industry and do some serious stuff with filmmaking, and they echo kind of what you say, and I just wonder what reputation Indietalk has out there-because some come here and their reaction is that Indietalk was something very different from what they expected-they didn't expect the community and laid back atmosphere.
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Don't get me wrong, I like this place, and the people here, or I wouldn't be here.

As far as what the industry guys say. They've been here, but they don't join or post. They look around for awhile, see that it's not a serious place by their standards, and leave, usually forever.

I do go to higher end pro forms, but they aren't as fun or conversational as this one. Once you get into the pro levels, the friendliness dries up, and we're just talking about lens tests and the math behind true sensor resolution, etc. It's much more informative to me, but it's more work than fun. Indietalk is a place you can relax, and are open to discuss whatever. That has it's own value. I don't thing of Indietalk as a recruiting area, more of a chat room. I'd say it's the most enjoyable place for film where you can still actually learn something.
 
Nate North said:
"I believe more frank criticism is needed. The film business is ruthless and this forum doesn't reflect it. This can be both good and bad -- a nice place to hang out and get pat on the backs, yet people leave here ill-prepared for the harsh reality of the indie filmmaking world.

I understand the difficult situation this is for the forum owners and moderators -- more harsh criticism will improve the product and usefulness of the forum, whereas the current level of niceness generates more traffic, but a rather bland repetitive product."

I was just posting this same thought on the thread I just left:)
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:yes:
 
I'm the same way, Nate.

I have a pro forum I frequent and I still like coming here for the same reasons as you.

Funny how that is.
 
Nate North said:
I do understand that this forum is for everyone, that's just my perspective. Imagine if some girl went to Julliard, bought a Stradivarius, and then was forced to get in a line behind 40,000 people with Kazoos for a job interview. After 20 kazoo players get in, they close down the interview and send everyone else home, without even looking at them. In a sense, that IS happening.
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I might be misunderstanding, but it sounds like it isn't so much the forum you have the issue with, but rather the internet sites for films that have all these various films in them, and the stuff that's out there.

You do bring up a very good point which I've thought about in past-and that is that filmmaking and video production, has changed quite a bit over the past few years, with the culture-and I've mentioned this elsewhere. 15-20 years ago, if you wanted to make a film, you had to have money for expensive cameras, sound equipment, lighting, and access to editing. In today's world, you can buy a modest camera, get film editing software on the net (for cheap or even free), you can get access to lighting and sound equipment and sound editing software-in essence EVERYONE has the ability to make films now, and they're doing it. People are getting noticed with their handy cam that they slap on youtube, and haven't attended film school of any type. IT IS changing, and it is that much harder I agree to make ground in the movie business if that's what you're wanting, so I can understand your frustration there :)
 
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Nate North said:
Don't get me wrong, I like this place, and the people here, or I wouldn't be here.

As far as what the industry guys say. They've been here, but they don't join or post. They look around for awhile, see that it's not a serious place by their standards, and leave, usually forever.

I do go to higher end pro forms, but they aren't as fun or conversational as this one. Once you get into the pro levels, the friendliness dries up, and we're just talking about lens tests and the math behind true sensor resolution, etc. It's much more informative to me, but it's more work than fun. Indietalk is a place you can relax, and are open to discuss whatever. That has it's own value. I don't thing of Indietalk as a recruiting area, more of a chat room. I'd say it's the most enjoyable place for film where you can still actually learn something.
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Thanks for clarifying, and as ROC responded there are others who just do just that :)

It is an enjoyable place, and very relaxed, it quite frankly one of the best places I come to on the net, film or otherwise. It's good though you do that the pro forums so you have those connections as well, and that's good to see.
 
This forum would benefit from shorter posts..
When we "try" to explain our ego in too many words, nobody bothers reading..
 
Tinalera said:
I might be misunderstanding, but it sounds like it isn't so much the forum you have the issue with, but rather the internet sites for films that have all these various films in them, and the stuff that's out there.

15-20 years ago, if you wanted to make a film, you had to have money for expensive cameras, sound equipment, lighting, and access to editing. In today's world, you can buy a modest camera, get film editing software on the net (for cheap or even free), you can get access to lighting and sound equipment and sound editing software-in essence EVERYONE has the ability to make films now, and they're doing it.
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Item #1: You did not misunderstand. This forum is statistically too small to have any real effect on the phenomenon I was describing. I was thinking of Youtube.

Item #2: You still can't make a film without all of that, the real difference is that 20 years ago people knew that.

Semantics is the big problem here. Person one makes a "Web Video" and calls it a film. Then person number two comes along looking for advice, and person one says, all you need to make a "Film" is a webcam and you're favorite album.

I find it similar to "Guitar Hero" in that they are now holding huge contests and giving prizes out to people that play toy plastic guitars, whereas knowing how to play an isotonic scale on an ibanez is now "boring"
 
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