I am in dire need of assistance related to the fine art of convincing someone.

The One Who Knocks

The One Who Knocks

Greetings, fellow filmakers!

As this is my first post on this utmost glorious forum, let me quickly introduce myself. I’m a 16 year old kid hailing from the northern regions of Scandinavia. I attend a school which educates in subjects related to the media, there among filmmaking. Needless to say, I’ve grown quite fond of this particular branch and I wish to further enhance my grasp of it.

Now that that is out of the way, I’ll proceed to present to you the dire matter that is at hand. See, I have this friend that also enjoys filmmaking (not quite as much as I do, but still) and he seems interested in making films with me both in and out of school (we’re in the same class).

The only problem is that this person suffers from what seems to be a condition commonly referred to as a “stereotypical teen”. This is to say he is quite fond of things such as; Call of Duty games, Michael Bay Films and alike. So when he pitches me an idea to a film we could make his own words are “I want to make a cliché action film”. His biggest source of inspiration being this fellow http://www.youtube.com/user/freddiew2.

I of course respect him and his opinion, it’s only I feel our potential would be misused making silly good guy/bad guy shoot ‘em ups without any hint of emotional depth.

Still though, he’s quite proficient with a camera and editing programs, which greatly aids me.

I on the other hand deeply enjoy classical American and European cinema, and I am greatly fascinated by the emotional and psychological aspects of telling a story through moving pictures. This is where our viewpoints clash you see.

So this is where I plea for aid from all you marvelous artists out there with more film knowledge in your little fingers than I possess entirely (but don’t get to comfortable with that, I’m quickly catching up). I plan of having a talk with him soon, where I’ll try to bring forth my viewpoints on filmmaking and try to “educate” him a little on the marvelous possibilities storytelling presents you with.

Would any of you have any advice on how that message could be presented most efficiently and convincingly?
 
Classical American and European cinema is def what i like the most. My fav films are by ppl like Kubrick, Kurosawa, Coppola, Fellini, Wilder, Bergman... and the list goes on.

But Michael Bay, Tony Scott and all have their own place in cinema. Though i do not take them seriously, i enjoy them quiet a bit. I just watched The Expendables two days ago and loved and the action and seeing Stallone again. Just because a film is not serious does not mean professional film artists can not enjoy it.

As for your friend, to educate him a bit in cinema, i would suggest trying something like making a deal with him. Tell him you'll watch five of the movies he recommends and in return he watches five which you recommend. And when recommending, start him off slowly and easily. Dont give him something like The Seventh Seal to begin with. It might put him off and confirm any negative beliefs he has about artistic cinema. Recommend something lighter but by a great director. If he gets into those movies AND has it in him to find the genius behind the great classical directors, he himself will slowly find his way.
 
Zensteve said:
Why don't you do what you want to do, and let him do what he likes to do? :huh:
Click to expand...

Because we're good friends and we respect each other. I don't mean to be rude to him in any way. I respect what he likes, and I don't mean to discard the indie action genre in any way, we'll probably make some of those too because he wants to. What I am looking for is advice on how to help someone appreciate the storytelling aspects of filmmaking. He'll probably go along making things I want to do too, I just want him to also be able enjoy and admire the depths of storytelling.



I'm sorry i didn't make myself clear.
 
Oh, I get what you're askin' now. :)

Just watch some movies with your friend. My friends & I often go to the local dollar-theater; the person payin' for the tix that night picks the film. Simple enough, and I get to see things I'd never normally find time for by myself.

Also, Movie Nights at my place. If more than one person brings a new strange disc, random draw from a bag. (This is where most the foreign films show up)

Maybe something like that would be more eye-opening than a dry point-by-point list of talking points.
 
Don't try to "educate" him. To me that sounds like you
feel you need him to change his mind and come over to
YOUR way of thinking. I know if someone had a talk with
me to try to "educate" me I would resist.

Will you two be only making one movie, ever? If that's
the case, then you should do your best to take your friends
idea for a cliché action film and build some interesting
characters within that framework. Develop the emotional
and psychological aspects of characters pushed into an
action scenario. That should be an interesting challenge.

If you two will make more than one film together, then
perhaps you can help him makes his cliché action film
without trying to help him appreciate the storytelling
aspects of filmmaking. Then on your second film ask him
to do the same for you. Help you make your movie that
shows the emotional and psychological aspects of telling
a story through moving pictures.

You will have two, very different films showing the creative,
respectful collaboration between two friends.
 
Just a little suggestion...

You may want to direct him to this forum. There have been a number of discussions about how the audiences involvement with detailed characters heightens their involvement with the action. "Saving Private Ryan" is an excellent example and one of my personal favorite films.

You like Kurosawa, he likes action films. Why not a "double feature" some evening? You can watch "The Seven Saumrai" and then "The Magnificent Seven" which is the remake. Both are action films with very solid characterizations.
 
I would agree that you should both make your own movies. Let him direct his, and you can help, and then you can direct yours, and he can lend his skills. Collaboration at it's best.

I would also recommend reading 'How to Win Friends and Influence People.'
 
sounds to me like a great team! An action movie with depth, or a deep movie with great action. Why not?

What is "action" at its core but a representation of conflict, and great deep stories are essentially about conflict...

Where you seem to be at odds is in the scope of the conflict. You likely want to focus on the "inter personal" conflict of story, whereas your buddy wants to focus on the "extra personal." Both types of conflict are dramatic, and both are useful in great movies, so you two should work your strengths, let your friend write and direct the extra personal conflicts in your story, where as you write and direct the inter personal ones. This should lead to something good and fresh.

Having a great friend to work with is a good thing, not a problem to be solved.
 
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