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"Hollywood Formula" Worksheet

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Oh, right, you'll stop the name calling when I surrender.

How to make a screenwriter feel sick. By Blake Snyder.

And, how to enforce this sickness, by Anonymous Internetties.
 
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I'm not a big fan of Snyder myself, and I've seen that most of the movies use the traditional 3 act structure.

I've seen some great movies which follow 3 act structure and many shitty ones which follow the same structure.

So, if they follow the same structure and methods, what's the difference between them? Story is the answer.

If you don't have a good story, no structure can save you.
 
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Imposing a structure template will only ever be to the detriment of a story.

A good story already has its own structure. The way it needs to be told.

I mean, I could tell you the story about the 12 year old boy who got drunk at a party and vomited up three act structure, but that would be the end, and you want the beginning first.

Anyone adult in the western world has spent over a million hours being brainwashed by three act structure, we get it already.

The challenge is to resist it.
 
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I’m sad that this has turned into an argument between bird and
marlyn. I sure hope that we can get past the name calling and get
back to the interesting topic marlyn brought up.

I’ll make my attempt:

maralyn, your first post on this thread called people following
formula “numskulls”. I know that you can see now that starting off
name calling raises a defensive response. Then you said
maralyn said:
yea, well, I can name a few movies that were written without that formula .....
Click to expand...

But so far you have not named these movies.

It’s easy to call structure and formula “crap” and “tripe” and
“destructive noise” and to state that writers following any
structure or formula are brainwashed.

It’s harder to have a respectful discussion (and bird isn’t
helping) and point out examples to support your statements.

Others have asked and I, too am asking. What are the few movies
you can name that were written without that formula?
 
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directorik said:
I’m sad that this has turned into an argument between bird and
marlyn. I sure hope that we can get past the name calling and get
back to the interesting topic marlyn brought up.

I’ll make my attempt:

maralyn, your first post on this thread called people following
formula “numskulls”. I know that you can see now that starting off
name calling raises a defensive response. Then you said


But so far you have not named these movies.

It’s easy to call structure and formula “crap” and “tripe” and
“destructive noise” and to state that writers following any
structure or formula are brainwashed.

It’s harder to have a respectful discussion (and bird isn’t
helping) and point out examples to support your statements.

Others have asked and I, too am asking. What are the few movies
you can name that were written without that formula?
Click to expand...

I take exception, Rick. I am not arguing for the sake of argument. Where have I been disrespectful? I've seen far worse on this site during my tenure, in fact very recently. I've stated my opinion and stand by my posts. I'll not be scolded by another member.
 
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bird said:
I take exception, Rick. I am not arguing for the sake of argument. Where have I been disrespectful? I've seen far worse on this site during my tenure, in fact very recently. I've stated my opinion and stand by my posts. I'll not be scolded by another member.
Click to expand...
I've stated my opinion and I stand by my post.

But now that I know your requirements I will no longer "scold" you.
 
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wow, they're pulling out the big guns.

I can name a ton of movies not written to that formula.

How about, uhm, hang on, I'm going to draw from great American Indie for this, Eraserhead.

And I should be allowed to ask, has anyone here been to film school?
 
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maralyn said:
wow, they're pulling out the big guns.

I can name a ton of movies not written to that formula.

How about, uhm, hang on, I'm going to draw from great American Indie for this, Eraserhead.

And I should be allowed to ask, has anyone here been to film school?
Click to expand...
I feel the way about films school as you do about formula.

Interesting you should mention "Eraserhead". That films follows the
very formula mentioned in that work sheet. I had the opportunity to
speak at length with the writer/director several years ago about that
film. He spoke a lot about structure and formula and Henry's journey.

I'm eagerly awaiting the tone of movies you can name. Despite what
you seem to imply, I am not a "big gun" - I'm a fellow independent
filmmaker and writer who enjoys discussing writing and am passionate
about the structure and formula of a compelling story.

I hope to learn for you.
 
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See. The typical response of the devotee. And I didn't say "structure" was crap. I said formula was crap. You seem to be suggesting that all stucture is formula.

And now, look, see, you got what you wanted, to suck me in as an example of why Snyder is so great.

This is intenet madness.
 
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You make a hell of an assumption that I am a devotee.
But I know now that we can never have a respectful
conversation. Closed minded comes in many flavors.

maralyn said:
All of the masters went to film school.
Click to expand...
Not all.

Hitchcock didn't.
Ford didn't
John Sayles
Peter Jackson
Richard Linklater
Luc Besson
Martin McDonagh
Terry Gilliam
Clint Eastwood
Ridley Scott
David Fincher
Luc Besson
John Waters
Woody Allen
Peter Bogdanovich
David Cronenberg
John Cassavetes
Paul Haggis
Wes Craven
George Romero
Alfinso Cuaron

and Orson Welles is considered by some a master. He didn't go to films school.
 
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maralyn said:
Coppola, Spielberg, Lynch, Lucas, Wenders, Antonioni, Bieniex, Tarkovsky, Tati, Greenaway, you know, uhm, the masters.
Click to expand...

Tati? Jacques Tati? What film school did he attend?

Greenaway went to art school not film school.

Wenders studied medicine and then philosophy but never went to
film school.

Antonioni got a degree in economics but never went to film school.

I’ve never heard of Bieniex. Care to point me in the right
direction of a master I’ve never seen a film by?
 
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So, it's a mystery to me why anyone would listen to what he's got to say over what real filmmakers have got to say.

And I bet no one on either of those lists has ever even heard of Blake Snyder.

The save the cat craze is an internet wannabee thing.
 
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Cracker Funk said:
I don't know if this is borderline plagerism, or just a really big coincidence, but this is basically a less-detailed version of Jake Snyder's "Save the Cat" beat sheet.

This is pretty cool, but if you want the real deal, read "Save the Cat".
Click to expand...

This isn't plagiarism. This systematic structure has been preached from many people over and over again. It's a very cookie cutter approach. You have this PDF, you have Blake Snyder's approach, there is Gulino's sequence approach... and yadda yadda yadda.

I used to follow these steps religiously until it turned out to have more of a negative effect than a positive one. In my opinion I think people should use these as nothing more than mere guides. But hey, that's just my opinion. Then again, I don't have any interest trying to fit my CIRCLE story into a SQUARE format.

*Well, after actually reading the thread I seem to be a tad late.

And just to explain myself a little better. I have nothing against structure or formula.

I do however have a vendetta against trying to squeeze a story to meet the standards written in a book. I may be naive when saying this but every Tom, Dick and Harry should know that a story has a beginning, middle and end. Just as everyone should know there is always an "Event" or "Catalyst/Inciting Incident" as some reference it as that tosses the main character into the mix of the story. There's always a turning point and some form of resolution in one way or another. If you watch any movie you will see this. It's practically common knowledge in my opinion and you don't need a book to teach you this...

I just don't agree that we have to hit the marks on specific pages in order for it to be effective.
 
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maralyn said:
You're obviously really into internet arguing.
Click to expand...

As are you. It's fun, isn't it?

maralyn said:
So, it's a mystery to me why anyone would listen to what he's got to say over what real filmmakers have got to say.
Click to expand...
It's a mystery to me too. I have no idea who Blake Snyder is.

But you are avoiding the questions several people have asked.
What are the films (tons of the them) that you know that do
not follow formula? Eraserhead follows the standard formula
quite closely and that's the only one you have mentioned.

I hope your information is more accurate then your list of
directors who went to films school.

Or is bird right and I owe him an apology?
 
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