Hiring actors and their rates.

[dlevanchuk]

I ve ran into an issue where I was looking for an actor do some some commercial work (actually more like an instruction video). My producer told me we will pay whatever the actor will want us to.
When I posted my audition notice and asked actors to submit me their rates, I got a blacklash of negativity, telling me this is not how "it's done" and I need to tell THEM what I'm paying.
Now, I'm thinking of actors as a mini businesses. They all provide services for a price. They need to know how to market their business and have customers and fan base. The more demand for their service, higher the price should be. So when , me, as a customer (filmmaker) coming into their "shop", I want to know how much it would cost to use their service (acting).
I don't walk into a business, pick a product and then tell to the owner "I have 30 dollars, can I pay 10 for it?" Unless it's a filthy bazaar...

Am I right or am I missing something???

 

[Aspiring Mogul]

I ve ran into an issue where I was looking for an actor do some some commercial work (actually more like an instruction video). My producer told me we will pay whatever the actor will want us to.

So if the actor wants a million dollars for a day's work, your producer will pay whatever the actor asked?

When I posted my audition notice and asked actors to submit me their rates, I got a blacklash of negativity, telling me this is not how "it's done" and I need to tell THEM what I'm paying.
Now, I'm thinking of actors as a mini businesses. They all provide services for a price. They need to know how to market their business and have customers and fan base. The more demand for their service, higher the price should be. So when , me, as a customer (filmmaker) coming into their "shop", I want to know how much it would cost to use their service (acting).
I don't walk into a business, pick a product and then tell to the owner "I have 30 dollars, can I pay 10 for it?" Unless it's a filthy bazaar...

Am I right or am I missing something???

I think SAG has a schedule of rates, depending on the budget, but I'm new to this, so I don't really know.

 

[directorik]

My producer told me we will pay whatever the actor will want us to.

Your producer is wrong. You are not the customer, you are the employer,
you set the fee. The actor then decides if they are willing to work for that
rate. The only exception to that is if your company is a SAG-AFTRA signatory.
The guild has a minimum rate a producer can pay. There is no maximum.

How does your producer set a budget for the project if he will pay whatever
the actor wants? Or does he have a set rate but is toying with the actors hoping
one will ask for less?

 

[dlevanchuk]

"if the actor wants a million dollars for a day's work, your producer will pay whatever the actor asked?"

Of course not. But following that analogy, if actor is asking me, how much I'm willing to pay them as I say "$1", will they agree to work?


"I think SAG has a schedule of rates, depending on the budget, but I'm new to this, so I don't really know."

And that's totally cool, if they want to go by that standard. I just know that non Union actors could establish their own price value.

 

[dlevanchuk]

Your producer is wrong. You are not the customer, you are the employer,
you set the fee. The actor then decides if they are willing to work for that
rate. The only exception to that is if your company is a SAG-AFTRA signatory.
The guild has a minimum rate a producer can pay. There is no maximum.

How does your producer set a budget for the project if he will pay whatever
the actor wants? Or does he have a set rate but is toying with the actors hoping
one will ask for less?

Nope, no one is toying with the actors. I'm looking at it as a construction project. When I'm building a house I call contractors and ask what their rate is.
Same should be applied to hiring cast and crew.
I know it's not "standard" in creative community, I just don't understand why.

 

[directorik]

If you were to call a specific actor (as you would a contractor) and ask
their day rate that would be acceptable. Putting out a casting notice
and asking every interested actor to send you their day rate is different.
Perhaps you should not look at this as a construction project but as a
film project. The difference is when you put out a bid notice for a construction
project you will accept the lowest bidder who has the proper background.
With actors you will not just accept the lowest bidder. You will audition them.

Perhaps it SHOULD be your way. So how does your way work? You get
head shots and resumes and then separate them by the day rate and
then set up an audition based on whose fee is lowest? Or do you just
pay whatever the actor will want no matter how high the rate?

 

[dlevanchuk]

If you were to call a specific actor (as you would a contractor) and ask
their day rate that would be acceptable. Putting out a casting notice
and asking every interested actor to send you their day rate is different.
Perhaps you should not look at this as a construction project but as a
film project. The difference is when you put out a bid notice for a construction
project you will accept the lowest bidder who has the proper background.
With actors you will not just accept the lowest bidder. You will audition them.

Perhaps it SHOULD be your way. So how does your way work? You get
head shots and resumes and then separate them by the day rate and
then set up an audition based on whose fee is lowest? Or do you just
pay whatever the actor will want no matter how high the rate?

I decide which actor to attach based on their potential to bring me a return (not always monetary). If I get an actor who doesn't fit the part, their rate wouldn't matter to me at all.
Also, when I shop for a contractor I never go for cheapest one.

 

[sfoster]

this seems pretty simple to me.

Those who go around trying to force the world to adapt to them are a lot less successful than those that try to adapt themselves to the world.

If you're getting a bunch of feedback that actors aren't considering your project because of your casting call then change your casting call.

 

[dlevanchuk]

This is the way I see hiring an actor could be.
I send out casting notice and get a handful of replies.
I audition actors and after picking few potential ones, I see what else can they bring into the project beside their acting chops. Do they have social media presence that I can market to? Do they have other valuable connections for their project? If so, they give me their hourly rate, say 500 an hour, and 1000 for OT (or per day, or whatever. Also negotiate with percentages from sales etc. Now I have a solid number to take and bring it to the investor with prices breakdown. This is how much it will cost to make, this is what projected return is, etc etc.

So where is a flaw in this system?

 

[directorik]

Also, when I shop for a contractor I never go for cheapest one.

Okay, but you deliberately missed my point. I'm not arguing with you, I'm
curious about your method and I'm offering my opinion. If you don't want
to discuss this I will stop. If you do can't we do so without playing games?

This is the way I see hiring an actor could be.
I send out casting notice and get a handful of replies.
I audition actors and after picking few potential ones, I see what else can they bring into the project beside their acting chops. Do they have social media presence that I can market to? Do they have other valuable connections for their project? If so, they give me their hourly rate, say 500 an hour, and 1000 for OT (or per day, or whatever. Also negotiate with percentages from sales etc. Now I have a solid number to take and bring it to the investor with prices breakdown. This is how much it will cost to make, this is what projected return is, etc etc.

So where is a flaw in this system?

I see no flaws in this. But it's not at all what you said in your first post. You
led me to believe that when you posted your audition notice you asked actors
to submit their rate. In this post you seem to be saying that after the actor
meets your needs (right for the part, social media presence, other valuable
connections) then they give you their rate. That is reasonable. Asking an
actor to submit their rate before the audition is what caused the “backlash
of negativity”.

So if I misunderstood your first post and you only asked actors about their
rate after the audition then I apologize. That seems reasonable to me and
I don't understand why you got a backlash of negativity.

"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress." Joseph Joubert

 

[sfoster]

So where is a flaw in this system?

The flaw is that advertising a high pay like $500/hour would get you a ton more interest than not mentioning payment. If you have that kind of money though, honestly, you should be going through a casting director not sending out emails on a mailing list, etc.

 

[directorik]

The flaw is that advertising a high pay like $500/hour would get you a ton more interest than not mentioning payment. If you have that kind of money....

See how annoying that is. I know what you meant, dlevanchuk. This
kind of word play doesn't advance a discussion, does it?

 

[Morris]

Maybe you should have said pay is negotiable.

 

[dlevanchuk]

Directorik, totally see your point. I see how "send me your rate" could be seen as a deciding factor if they will get the part or not. I am totally in the wrong in that way and you re totally right.
Thank you

 

[Sweetie]

So where is a flaw in this system?

Is it working? If yes, you're good, notwithstanding potential improvements. If no, that's the flaw. If a system doesn't achieve your goals, it doesn't matter if the system is good or not, it doesn't work and needs to be altered.

It's all theory until you go out and test it in the real world.

 

[iellioz632]

Interesting views here all.

I would imagine that actors may read this thread therefore I have a question for actors and producers. When you reply, perhaps you can reply based on your location so one can get an idea of the feedback from that part of the world.

Let us say one is shooting a micro budget or zero budget feature film and needs to hire actors. Therefore one auditions a bunch of actors and makes a selection for the lead and supporting roles. What if all the actors required for the production that you selected had formal acting training but zero to no mainstream acting experience, however you were happy with their audition and felt they would be appropriate for the role. What if they all said to you that they understood the low/no budget nature of the film and since they really wanted the feature film experience they were prepared to work for free. Therefore you arranged for the preparation of the contracts and releases that specifically stated their agreement to work for no compensation. What if the actors then signed the contracts, the film was produced and later got picked up for a distribution deal for broadcast in cinemas around the world, and it did quite well in the box office.

In the above scenario, based on the employment laws in your relevant countries, can the actors in the above film thereafter legally seek compensation from the production company or distributor that distributed the film, even though they previously signed a legal contract and release, before the film was made, agreeing to accept no compensation for their work in the film?

 

[Sweetie]

In the above scenario, based on the employment laws in your relevant countries, can the actors in the above film thereafter legally seek compensation from the production company or distributor that distributed the film, even though they previously signed a legal contract and release, before the film was made, agreeing to accept no compensation for their work in the film?

Typically no. It'll depend on a combination of the terms the agreement, whether the terms of the agreement are enforceable and your local/state/federal laws.

 

[Blade_Jones]

I ve ran into an issue where I was looking for an actor do some some commercial work (actually more like an instruction video). My producer told me we will pay whatever the actor will want us to.
When I posted my audition notice and asked actors to submit me their rates, I got a blacklash of negativity, telling me this is not how "it's done" and I need to tell THEM what I'm paying.

Yeah! No sh***! I've never heard of a show where they cast for actors and asked how much they want to work for. Like going to a car dealership and asking how much you should write the check out for. That will only lead you to overpay. You set your rate and begin casting. Usually everyone who works on indie projects knows what to expect... not much.