Frustrated with the indie film scene

haha- that was a great little vid. I love those kinds of rants.

Yikes though- you've run into the typical indie pot hole we keep hearing about! Any chance to self distribute? Grassroots marketing? Cut like, 17 different trailers and post them on Youtube? Send out promo copies to press outlets and indie-review sites? Get a celebrity to endorse the product?

I say, go nuts like those Broken guys did. Get your plams dirty advertising the hell out of it wherever and whenever you can, distrubuting it yourself if possible. If "they" won't buy it, show them you won't stop there. Then again.. i dunno what budget you're talking about here... could be scary. Whatever you do- good luck!
 
That was HILARIOUS!

I'm in such a similar situation it was almost painful to watch. I'd send the link to the producer but he'd have a heart attack. Our only saving grace is our Italian financier got arrested (on day 12 of our 18 day shoot) on Securities fraud and is in the FedPen right now - no threatening letters from him.

You didn't get into any festivals?
 
The whole thing started when I was in pre-production and tried to hire a Producer's Rep. They were interested in the script and thought we had something great until they saw the rough cut. Had we gone back in at that point and made:

1) The waiter in the movie chop the heads off the hitmen and drink their blood, or;
2) The attractive blonde in the movie (played by Keri Szymanksi) take her clothes off ...

they would have had interest.

So, forging ahead with production we release in Aug 2005 to great reviews. We are published in countless magazines and the movie and its trailer is seen by hundreds in the industry. We then re-approach the reps and they still "can't sell the movie."

Mark Steven Bosko (an amazingly nice guy and a fantastic producer's rep) told me without named actors OR a specific genre (hitman didn't quite make it and its not even really a drama) ... the movie would be impossible to sell. The ONE thing he told me would work was to get accepted at festivals.

So ... reaching into my already empty pockets I slam down a credit card and spend $5,000 of my own money submitting to literally every festival there is (obviously knowing we would get accepted to at least ONE of them) ... and didn't get accepted to any of them.

I hate festivals.

Anyway, a year and a month after our release (I know that's not very long), I have a well-written, well-acted, hitman drama/comedy on my shelf that will likely never find a home. Needless to say, the whole experience has tainted me to never venture into another film project (with any expectations of selling it/making a dime).
 
Oh God, I sure do know ALL the words to this song.

Only difference is I partly self financed my movie and lost my house in the process.

I think I'm probably a year further down the line with this process than you and the only thing I would say is this -- at some point you have to take what you learned making this picture and move on to the next. Otherwise the whole thing really has been a waste.

Regardless of how good the film is, you're learning the same thing that I did, which is that you can't buck the market. Producers reps want films with names and films that slot into easy to sell genres. They want them because they know they can find distribution for them.

The other thing you are going to need to consider at some point, is whether the film really is as good as you think it is -- and I say this only from my own experience.

When I made No Place I made the best film that I could with what I knew at the time -- and although I got it 85% right, I did make three or four errors and it's my opinion that those errors have resulted in the non-sale of the film.

Here are the errors:

1) I made a no name, non-genre drama (when they are almost impossible to sell)
2) I placed my inciting incident at the mid point of the movie, instead of at page twelve (this makes the whole of the first half of the second act drag)
3) I made my protagonist too passive (because this his whole story arc fails to carry the audience)
4) I let my desire to make direct a movie over rule my normally good business sense.

The truth is the last two years, whilst the film has been floundering about doing nothing, I've been studying screen writing, figuring out what went wrong and learning from my mistakes.

I'm sure that I'll have another film in production at some point and I'm also confident that this time I'll manage to do business with the end product.

I also understand why someone might cut their loses and quit at this point -- I almost did.

And that's a question only you can answer for yourself.
 
I'm wondering if it is of any use to make a critical comment about the trailer (since I haven't seen the full feature), or if any critique at this point is just pointless criticism. Although I love to throw my opinions around, I do try to remain constructive.
 
Count me in your club Alphie! I wrapped up production in 2004...I was going straight for the festivals. So far, not one festival.

The good and the bad for me is that the production value is not that great in my film. It's not horrible, but there are a couple of acting issues and such. I didn't put a lot of money into it, but I have to admit that it really is disappointing to not get into one festival...

Anyway, maybe with the internet, things will change, and we can at least get people to see our work.

Good luck.

Chris
 
I, too, have a crime movie (not hit men) - well written, well acted, well shot, an original score with live musicians, a lot of comedy but no name actors, very little blood and one nude scene.

"Can't sell it."

I hit the festivals starting with Slamdance 2006. 30 submissions, accepted into 2. Very discouraging.

Next time - two name actors and more nudity.
 
cibao said:
Count me in your club Alphie! I wrapped up production in 2004...I was going straight for the festivals. So far, not one festival.

The good and the bad for me is that the production value is not that great in my film. It's not horrible, but there are a couple of acting issues and such. I didn't put a lot of money into it, but I have to admit that it really is disappointing to not get into one festival...

Anyway, maybe with the internet, things will change, and we can at least get people to see our work.

Good luck.

Chris
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, and might I suggest some knee pads, cause I wouldn't want to be the owner of your knee caps when your investors find you!!

Chris
 
Shit dude...you're making me nervous about the feature we are about to make!! At least in this case, the only investors are the writer, director, and actors....that way we're all in the same boat and share responsibility...
 
One of the lessons to be learned by Clive, Eric and me is to know your market before you make a movie. I knew going in that a crime thriller with no names was going to be a hard sell. I needed to make something other than a ULB horror movie to show that I could actually make a good movie. But in hindsight, I should have relied on my experience and made a really good horror movie.

If you have something else - a hook like Blair Witch and Open Water, or a specific genre (gross-out comedy, horror) for the DTV market- then names don't always matter. But I'm seeing even that change. Or you can just get lucky like Kevin Smith.

Movies get released all the time, some even make money; which is why people keep making them and investors keep putting in money.
 
Did Kevin Smith GET lucky?

I don't think luck is involved in any of this. You HAVE to know someone somewhere to make it. When I send my feature to:

Sundance Festival
Slamdance Festival
SXSW FILM FESTIVAL
Cinequest Film Festival
Miami Film Festival
TromaDance
Syracuse Film Festival
NY Underground Film Fest
Vail Film Festival
Boston Underground Film Festival
Sarasota Film Festival
Wreck-Beach Film Festival
Backseat Film Festival
Independent Film Festival of Boston
Tribeca Film Festival
Staten Island Film Festival
Brooklyn Underground Film Festival
SouthSide Film Festival
Toronto
Mark Steven Bosko
Matthew Landon/Jon Chance
Duncan Montgomery
Int-Entertainment
CinemaVault
York Entertainment
Cinetic Media
Warner Independent Pictures
Ochovo Distributors
The Film Source
ZIA FILM DISTRIBUTION LLC
ITN Distribution
Asylum
Page Ostrow
Supersonic Films (UK)
Cornerstone Productions
Allied Entertainment Group, Inc.
Image Entertainment
Joey Siracusa (Lee Miller/Jon Cutler)
CarrieAnne Morgan
Showcase Entertainment (Cara Shapiro)
Spotlight Pictures (Matt)
MTI Home Video (Jay Grossman)

... and they ALL pass on it (even when the cost of rights has become nominal), it plays off of what Clive/you all are saying (with an added point). Genre, boobs, AND a director with some sort of track record is imperitive. When you look at the crap on the shelves distributed by Asylum (and at this point I could care LESS about who I offend) and some of the crap accepted at festival (somehow making it through the INTERNS ... INTERNS! Are you kidding me? My movie wasn't accepted at Tribeca because an 18-year-old NYU student didn't like it) it all comes down to "who you know."

I know no one. :huh:
 
While its true that if you don't have a proven genre with a star in it, it will be difficult to sell your film. However, look at this unique exception: The Blair Witch Project

Make for $50k, make $150M in the theatres.

The only reason this lousy film did any good was because of the constant marketing. Sure, it was unique, but everyone bought into the bullshit. I saw it too.

Maybe you should reevaluate how you're marketing your film for the big sale? Market it as big, unique, special, a guaranteed winner, marketable...
 
It is frustrating, but I think if you hit the gold, you will be happy to see a product in the market, the worst you can do now is to quit. You got a movie done, it was declined or past on by the people you sent it to, have they provided some comment that can help improve the movie toward the value of the market?

Have you talk to the sales rep or producer rep to see if they can suggest ways to make your film more marketable within what was shot?

And it's very true that most of the time it's who you know than what you are capable of, and of course, if you have a 'name' then it gets a bit further in the game. Now, who you know doesn't come from just sitting at home waiting for them to call you. Make the intinial contact, talk to them, become their friend and who knows. (Example, I recently was approached by a sales rep that has some good reputation who want to see the finished movie I'm working on now, however, it won't be another 6 months at least for the movie to be done... So I emailed them, started to build a relationship, now, they are willing to look at a trailer cut to consider the film...) things like this would work... but it all up to the individual.

And always remember, you know someone who knows someone. :)
 
mdifilm said:
Have you talk to the sales rep or producer rep to see if they can suggest ways to make your film more marketable within what was shot?
Click to expand...

Not from within what was shot. Who wants to watch two guys sit at a table in an overnight standoff? Now, if the parts were played by DeNiro and Spacey (which is who they were written around) ... we'd have something here!

I would love to use this experience as inspiration to go on ... to keep on trying ... to make the next movie better based on what I now know, but I don't have that leisure.

Financial stress ... marraige stress ... running two other businesses ... outlook worse than when I produced the first movie ... I honestly don't think there is a chance for ANY of us to produce that "next great movie." Don't let that stop you (I'm just bitter). A friend of mine is currently $120,000 into DEVELOPMENT of his next movie. DEVELOPMENT. Not even getting CLOSE to a shooting date! No thanks ... I'm going to stick to home movies from now on! :(
 
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