Faith Based film bandwagon?

Hello all,
I'd like to know if anyone is jumping on the Christian film bandwagon? Not that it's a bad thing at all, but I'm just wondering if anyone is trying to get into the new found attention given to faith based films? I think Fireproof really put the spotlight on the faith based genre. So, is anyone trying to capitalize on this rekindled industry? There have always been Christian films, but I think we see a lot of attention on these small independent films, any theories as to why they are so successful? One theory I have is that they overhype the movies. Fireproof was a good movie, but my wife and I both didn't think it was as good as all the hype made it out to be. So, I really don't want this Thread to discuss the movie Fireproof, but more about the whole christian film making industry. I'm just curious as to the opinions of others.
 
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10 million is great for an independent film. But much did The Blair Witch Project make? Get my point?

Do you direct blockbusters or something? I don't know about you, but my budgets usually run 5K - 50K. I would be happy to make one million dollars, let alone balk at 10. Get my point?

Just for the record, I have not seen any Kirk Cameron movies. They don't interest me.
 
Okay, let me clarify....

I am looking at this from a general audience standpoint and not from a 'if I had a million dollars' standpoint.

I understood the first point to say that people were jumping on the Christian based film bandwagon, I disagree. The conversation turned to...

"I agree with #1 - if the content strikes a chord with a church or group, they will push it."

I agree, but I don't necessarily think they are in high demand. If they make alot of money like the "Fireproof" film you are talking about, that is great, but that doesn't necessarily indicate high demand. High demand, to me, means that the distribution that the film gets would be comparable to films with A-list actors.

No production I was involved with ever had a budget of more than $4,000 and that was my unfinished project :rolleyes:

One day we'll all have budgets we can work with....

-- spinner :cool:
 
"High demand" means other things, too.

Right now distributors are actively looking for faith based movies.
Like the horror genre, a faith based movies doesn't need A-list
actors to sell. It needs to hit the main elements. People who are
interested in the genre will rent and buy pretty much any movie
that fall into the category. Again, just like the DVT market for
horror films.

To you "high demand" means wide distribution with A-list actors.
In the niche distribution world "high demand" means distributors
need titles to fill their library.
 
Okay, let me clarify....

I am looking at this from a general audience standpoint and not from a 'if I had a million dollars' standpoint.:

Okay, I understand that point of view. You and I probably like the same movies, because I love big budget FX flicks. But, aren't you trying to be a filmmaker? What about that standpoint of what budget you can really get versus what you can really make?


One day we'll all have budgets we can work with....:

After 30 years of making films, I can tell you that is not the slightest bit realistic. I think Rik is one of the few on the forum who has a shot at getting a multi-million dollar budget, since he works in the industry. The rest of us are outside, looking in. To you, a budget seems to be the amount to make your examples of SPIDERMAN or LORD OF THE RINGS. The odds of anybody getting a 150 - 200 million dollar budget is not much better than winning the lottery.


The main way someone gets into a prominent Hollywood position is by:

A. Knowing somebody very high up.
B. Working your way up from being a Production Assistant or tech.
C. Making a hit indie.


Examples of C include Robert Rodriguez - EL MARIACHI, Kevin Smith - CLERKS, Ed Burns - BROTHERS MCMULLEN, etc. These budgets ranged from approximately 7K - 25K.

There is another category, that is the 99.99% of people who will not write, direct, produce or star in a Hollywood movie:

D. The rest of us.


Setting up a light stand or being an extra on OVER THE TOP doesn't count, otherwise, I can say I made it. So, "the rest of us" have the option to take things into our own hands and hope to achieve C - "making a hit movie". My heroes include John Carpenter - DARK STAR, Sam Raimi - EVIL DEAD and Peter Jackson - BAD TASTE. I listed their first features, as they were indie breakthroughs.

It's easy to name the 1 percent who have made it. There are other indie filmmakers who haven't had worldwide breakthroughs, but they make money, nonetheless. I imagine you've walked into Blockbuster or some other video store. Half of those movies - the ones that take one or two slots, not the single hit that takes up a whole wall, but more than half are 5 or 6 figure budgets. It's a whole subgenre:

Indiemovies.jpg


I know a lot of those people. Some of them got a little 5K deal from York, while others did okay. One of the guys who makes money at this, Matt, is on this board, so I hope he chimes in. He made:

DEEP HOLLOW

My friend Christian does the best out of the people I know. He makes the RECON 2020 series. His first RECON was made for 30K and sold to 20 countries for 200K. Each movie makes more than the last. I have no doubt that he will have a hit, in the future.

In this day of age, you can get one source world-wide distribution, which can be a mistake. Or, you can sell to individual countries. Prices vary on whether you have name talent and many other factors. No name indies may fetch 5K to 50K for a U.S. deal. The money isn't great, so it's best to rack up as many countries as you can. I know one guy who got a 70K U.S. deal, but it's not that common if you make a 4K movie. Here are a couple of my foreign covers:

Japan
Thailand

So, these are the numerical results possible for most of us who won't make the 7 figure breakthrough.

A 100K budget (one of which grossed 10 mil) can be an equity loan or 4 credit cards, between a couple of producer buddies. None of us are going to come up with the budget to make a 200 million dollar TERMINATOR SALVATION, but 100K is realistic.

If you or anyone on this board can show me a movie where you made significant money, I would like to hear about it. It's easy to site the very few blockbuster/famous examples, because they are so few, including. HALLOWEEN and THE EVIL DEAD had budgets (300K and 384K) that in today's dollars would exceed a million dollars. So, name me some much cheaper budgets, closer to 100K or less. That leaves EL MARIACHI, BLAIR WITCH and little else. OPEN WATER cost around 150K. NAPOLEON DYNAMITE - 400K.

To my knowledge, BLAIR WITCH is the only 5 figure indie to make returns in the 100 million plus range. It stole the title of highest grossing indie from HALLOWEEN.
 
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Scoopicman- I think what you're getting at is that there are only a handful of Indie films that have ever made record profits off of a microbudget, but isn't this small percentage what keeps Indie film makers going? It's like golf, unless you're a small percentage of pro golfers, the entire game is not really enjoyable, it's the very few great shots or the occasional hole-in-one makes the average person keep them coming back. I have to agree with you that waiting for a large budget to make a profitable movie is unrealistic. I have to respectuflly disagree with Spinner's comment (although I'm not saying she's wrong, I just don't agree with it) " High demand, to me, means that the distribution that the film gets would be comparable to films with A-list actors." This is like saying I don't consider it prime real estate unless I bought it from Donald Trump. They are two categories that are measured differently, in my mind anyway. Fireproof did actually get wide distribution in theaters and on DVD, matter of fact, I'm pretty sure it did better than "Snakes on a Plane" which had a couple of A-list actors in it. So, I think using not having a budget is a not really a good excuse for not getting distributed, sure of course it costs money, but I think Scoopiman offered a couple of alternatives to make profits off of low budget movies. I'm sure Japan is an awesome market for US based movies. Always have been.
 
The next one on the radar to watch is 'The Secrets of Johnathan Sperry' The producer director Rich Christiano has made Christian films for 20yrs. $750 to $800K budget shot on Super 16. A period piece-it takes place in 1970 stars Gavin Macleod (from Love Boat), Jason Panettiere and Robert Guillaume and quality support cast.

He's using Churches to sponsor prints at theaters. He's up to 100 looking to make 500 by release date Sept. 18. I saw it at a festival and it's a good family faith based film that I think is stronger that Fireproof in acting, story and technical. The trailer is at: http://www.sperrymovie.com/
Just my 2 cents
 
... the very few great shots or the occasional hole-in-one makes the average person keep them coming back.

I keep coming back because I like the creative endeavor. The results are completely secondary to me. My grandfather golfed because he liked the walk and the environment on the course. The results of the game were secondary for him too.

There are many reasons we do what we do. I would say if you love it and the christian market is a viable market, go for it, it'll keep you making more films. I've seen so many indies that have guns and profanity as the main focus of the film (plot and character are secondary devices in these scripts), that I'm all for pushing for cleaner family friendly content.

As far as "Making it in the industry", Living in MN, Getting a PA job would be making it for me ;) I can't leave the area to work (House, Kids in school, Wife has a tenured sped teaching position). I would love to fetch coffee for someone on set, it's a start :)
 
Great thread.

The whole reason that I joined this site to learn from you experts is to do faith based stuff. I don't want to get into what I'm doing personally, but according to my research there is little competition and much demand. I will not be doing "films" per say, but more like narrative documentaries (or at least that is how I understand it).
 
I have thought about making a Christian-themed film, be it fiction, non-fiction, documentary, whatever.

Directorik, your first post was quite a good one, I think you hit on several very valid points.
 
There are some very interesting points being made here. I would certainly have to agree that a new young film maker probably isn't going to get that mega million deal right off the bat. The problem with making movies is being able to fund them. Everyone who funds motion pictures has an agenda or motivation for doing so. With the success rate of independent films as a measure, small independent films are not always the best financial selection compared to other investment opportunities. While a film maker is more concerned with the content of a film the investor is usually more interested in films that are going to make money. This is true for most investors. But there ARE other types of investors out there. People also invest in film projects because they believe in a certain message of the film. The environment. Politics. Religion. The economy. Something. Now here's another fact. The message isn't heard, and investors don't get their money IF nobody ever sees the film. Therefore, more investors in films are becoming involved in post production and marketing than ever before. It is basically the same band wagon that other investors are on. It is just that this band wagon seems to be growing at a faster rate than others. Christians are the biggest non corporate spenders on agenda in the world. They represent a vast untapped market for the independent film maker and they have discovered that films are a fantastic way to get a message out to people. I mean, look, The bible in the drawer at the motel was a great idea in its time but who actually reads them now days when they can watch TV in the room or go swimming? IF they can get you into the theater, they have you as a captive audience to the Christian message for up to two full hours. In order to do that, they have to have a good script, a good presentation, and good actors that people want to see go through plot sequences. Christianity as entertainment isn't a new concept. we have always had religious music and the investors discovered that Christian Rock and Christian Country were extremely big markets. Now they have discovered US! I think its wonderful.
I mean ALL of us shoot within parameters of one kind or another. We shoot this location because we couldn't get the location we wanted or we couldn't afford it. We work with people that aren't our first choices because we couldn't get the ones we would have liked to have worked with. Instead of blowing out the top floor of an exploding skyscraper and parachuting to the ground(because the stunt was in the over a million range), our hero repels down the building because a stunt guy(the ex military friend of your brother's) snuck into the building after hours and we were able to get the shot and run away before anyone noticed we were filming!
Now imagine that some of those financial parameters are GONE! As long as we shoot within our genre,(so its another parameter) we get to shoot a film with a real budget. Look. I have NO problems with that! Can the story I wanted to tell on film be modified to fit within the new parameters? Sure, why not? I see no reason why the crack whore on the corner can't beat her drug problem because of faith elements instead of AA and still tell the detective the information that will lead him to the killer or having a man of faith be the detective. Give me the marker pen and lets do the rewrite! Otherwise the detective's character may never be seen in theaters or on DVD. Or maybe my investor just wants the film to have "FAMILY VALUES" and those are my only parameters. Invite the kids, my detective movie just became a silly comedy starring a dog named detective Weebles! I am sure that I'll be making a Christian or family values film at some point in my career because I am adaptable, I am a good writer, a good film maker and I can work within parameters.
 
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Yeah, I was talking to someone the other day that was all excited about this genre. He's not a religious person, but figured it was a good market to tap into... I don't know...
 
Yeah, I was talking to someone the other day that was all excited about this genre. He's not a religious person, but figured it was a good market to tap into... I don't know...

Those few words speak volumes both about this person and about that business.

Here is my very favorite faith-based movie clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRqMlqsWmHY
complete with an amazingly Mordor-like closing musical number.

(yeah, I used to work at Gospel Films Inc. really.)
 
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I still don't understand.

Are you saying that a filmmaker who is not a Christian but
is excited about the commercial possibilities of the faith
based genre is a fool? Or a dishonest person?

I'm really interested in your opinion on this. Is it something
you can elaborate on?
 
I am amazed that this thread is still here!

And I go back and see that there are alot of disagreements with something I NEVER said.

I made the comment:
"...one day we'll all have budgets we can work with..."

For crying out loud! Someone thought I was SERIOUS??? Who would think that in reality, I'd believe that every filmmaker who wants a big budget will get one??? Geez, talk about being literal. :bang:

The planets must align in order to get a budget of ANY kind. It is INSANE to think that a budget has to be large or that everyone who wants a million dollar budget will get one. Personally, I am a proud guerilla filmmaker. And ANYONE who has known me on this site, knows that I am a big believer in low to no-budget filmmaking until you can manage a budget of some kind. A big budget doesn't indicate the importance or relevance of a film.

The ONLY real discussion I was having was regarding faith based films not what kind of budget we need for a film as an independent filmmaker. ALOT of assumptions were made toward a off-hand comment. (sigh) its as if no one really read what I wrote. :rolleyes:

...that's what I get for staying away so long....


Now, in terms of the original thread:

It seems that Tyler Perry seems to have the right idea in making faith based films. The agenda is there, but he seems to cast a wide net in that he appeals to everyone. You don't have to be Christian to enjoy his films and there is obviously a market for it, so you can draw your own conclusions.

By the way, I am going to be working on a film for the next two weekends. The pre-production meeting is tomorrow. Our budget: very low, the director is paying for alot out of his own pocket and he has been lucky enough to find people who are VOLUNTEERING their time, equipment and effort. THAT is how an independent film gets made.

...and its faith-based.

-- spinner :cool:
 
Rik, I've been lucky enough to muddle-through doing work I enjoyed (even when they all go kablooey) and refusing work whose propagandistic nature I objected to. I fully recognize that this is a fortunate luxury, for which I am grateful. I don't mean any personally-directed disrespect. Truly.

You know that in comedy there are never pure innocents or villains. The rogue exploits the sucker only for both to be exposed by the interaction.

As for the comment I originally quoted, consider a business based on faith yet executed by calculating odds-makers without that faith driving their allegedly-moralizing enterprise. Fill-in-the-numbers inspiration. Personally, I just could not get myself out of bed in the morning to do that.

---------------------

The Kendricks will make money, they are a brand name and with solid, existing connections to their church distribution network. New investors will be disappointed if they believe that there are consistent multipliers here, or that the market is generally open to all comers. Picture like Gibson's, or Prince of Egypt, turned out the faithful in droves and the potential TAM from that is well-saturated.

---------------------

At their heart all faith-based entertainments are not entertainment per se, but instruction. Nay, not instruction: propaganda. As with all propaganda dramas, they very much cross the fourth wall, by injecting, into their fictional construct, a (supposedly) non-fictional character: God.

Now, God as fictional character has a long history ranging from biblical epics to Rosemary & her baby. I'm sure we're all eager to see Legion, or as I like to call it, God versus CGI (my money is on CGI). There have been far more film representations of nuns over the years than just about any other female profession. All well and good. Even the most firm atheist might not go for a belief in God, but they still believe, naturally, in the existence of Christians -- fascinating, fleshy, people.

But in propagandistic pictures, the people get shut down, except as mechanisms to channel all adulation towards the center of attention, the Dear Leader whose required presence validates all outcomes. In the end, it's about Power. It's about using the mechanisms of the screen and the loudspeakers for control, control over the joyful proletariat, control over the kids bussed to the theatre by their parents at the pastor's orders, control over every part of their public and private lives.

"And until you listen to the Word of God, you will make the wrong choices, go down the wrong road, lose your family, lose your home, lose your security, lose your investments" says a character in Fireproof's predecessor Flywheel, and they're dead earnest about making the viewer believe it. I could not go home to my kids after shooting something like that. The guilt of contributing to a deeply distorted world would be too much.

YMMV.

kb
 
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I made the comment:
"...one day we'll all have budgets we can work with..."

For crying out loud! Someone thought I was SERIOUS??? Who would think that in reality, I'd believe that every filmmaker who wants a big budget will get one??? Geez, talk about being literal. :bang:

You "literally" wrote it. Yeah, I thought you were being serious (and delusional). You could've been a 15 year old with rich parents, for all I know. I had no idea where you were coming from. I find it ironic when someone makes a statement, doesn't put "LOL" or something to indicate sarcasm, and then is surprised when someone makes a response to it.
 
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Joker, I’m sorry you feel I thought you had personally
disrespected me. Not the case at all. I’m sorry my question was
read that way. You made a comment I found interesting and wanted
to know more about what you meant. There was nothing else in my
question. Nothing at all. Just interest.

I apologize for putting you on the defensive. That was not my
intent. I will be more careful in asking you questions in the
future.
 
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