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logline Drama logline. Some feedback appreciated.

In a small Italian town, Andrea is forced to patch up a relationship with his grumpy dying father, while his brother Rosario struggles to confess to their hyper-catholic mother his homosexuality.


Trying to look at it with an objective eye, I don't think it's clear the age of the brothers in the logline. they are both grown up men, both living in separate cities, away from home (and so from their family), but how would you condensate this into the logline? And what else do you think is missed or can be fixed?

Thanks
 
"In a small Italian town, Andrea is forced to patch up a relationship with his grumpy dying father, while his brother Rosario struggles to confess to their hyper-catholic mother his homosexuality."

You're summarizing when you should be tantalizing.
Who or what is forcing Andrea to do this? Is there a man with a gun? A guilt complex? A nagging mother?
And how is Rosario struggling? Drinking too much? Pouting?
Personally, I don't like names in logs (but that's just me) and in this case I think the names could be replaced with a character description. For instance, "Rosario struggles" is vague. "A closeted gay man" is spot on and encompasses the struggle without using the word.
 
Thanks geckopelli for contributing to the discussion.

Apart from the logline itself, do you also agree to have a different inciting incident that would help making the story more dynamic? As I am now thinking to address that point first, to then come back to the logline on a later stage.
 
YES! Unless it is important to us, it is not needed. And, by changing the name to a descriptor you tidy it up as well as convey more! Two birds, one stone.
 
That's an interesting point. Basically adding more "drama to the drama" to make the story more appealing, make something happen that is "visible" while showing the internal journey of the protagonists.

Does anyone else agree with this point of view?

Late to the party, but "yeah, kinda!" :yes:

In fact, I've had this thread open on my laptop and been thinking there was something missing since yesterday, but didn't see the subsequent responses till just now, when I went to post this comment:

As it stands, it all feels a bit "ordinary" - typical family tension, but nothing special. The two sons moved away from home, and now they're back for what might be as little as a long weekend if the father dies quickly, so ... 🤷‍♂️

However, where the others have suggested an "inciting event" I was thinking more along the lines that the drama comes from the mother's (religiously motivated) determination to force a reconciliation between Andrea and his father, but inadvertently sets up a new confrontation within the family, when Rosario (her favourite son, perhaps?) comes out as gay, forcing the mother then to find a way to reconcile her religious beliefs with her love for her son.
 
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Thanks geckopelli for contributing to the discussion.

Apart from the logline itself, do you also agree to have a different inciting incident that would help making the story more dynamic? As I am now thinking to address that point first, to then come back to the logline on a later stage
It's impossible to say without seeing the script. Such things are dependent upon execution. Think about a film like Ordinary People. Sounds incredibly boring, but the execution got an Oscar. An earthquake and the act of finding an old photo can be equally emotionally inciting.

As for loglines, If you can't write a logline, you don't know your story yet. And if you don't know your story, you don't know your characters-- take them out on a date. At this point, the log is just a sign post. Don't hang up on it. Write a crappy one and move on. As the story develops, correct it. I recommend this for all writing issues. Don't stop, write through it until you get your groove back, then correct.

A logline for selling is another matter, because the actual purpose of a logline is to prompt curiosity, nothing more, so here's a short lecture:

One of the possible loglines to Lethal Weapon is:
A Suicidal Man regains his desire to live through adversity.
That's a High Concept Log. No inciting incident needed. Something you might show an Actor, because it emphasizes the humanity of the character you want her to play. That's also what makes it a High Concept. It's universal, a story that could take place anywhere in any era.

Another is:
A Suicidal Cop finds a reason to live when his partner's daughter is kidnapped.
A "lower" concept that is dependent upon the inciting incident. You might pitch this at a Director because it puts a picture in his head, whereas the Actor wants a feeling. It's a Action log.

There are countless more logs for that particular film, and for ALL films. My point is simple-- how good the logline is depends who's reading it. There are no magic words. In the Studio System, you have to be able to spit out original loglines the way you exhale. Seriously. When a Reader reads a script, he also has to write his own logline for it. And after all, if a writer can't shoot me a new log in a 30 seconds or so, how can I depend on him to write to notes on-set when the budget clock is running at $25,000 an hour?

So stop trying to perfect a single logline and write it every way you can think of. Then rewrite until you have several good ones. Do this, and you will learn to cough up loglines as a second thought. Once I caught on, it became embarrassingly easy to do.

A good practice for learning is my "The Logline Game". Post your original logline for a well known movie and see if anyone can guess the film. If they can't, the logline failed. Great way to refine your craftsmanship.
 
As it stands, it all feels a bit "ordinary" - typical family tension, but nothing special.
I think this is the gist of the responses, so now it is up to you! You have some good stuff here, keep at it. And no matter the literary device used to add another dynamic, just keep at it. You will know when you find it. That a-ha moment.
 
Out of curiosity, is there a reason you set this in Italy? The reason I ask is that the mother's mentality would more or less require the action to take place in the most rural part of Italy, and probably some time in the 60s or 70s, which would present certain production challenges. Her homophobic mindset, in the Roman Catholic tradition, belongs to the pre-Vatican II era, and unless the sons are in their 40s or 50s and she's been buried under a rock for the reign of the last three popes, Rosario's coming out couldn't believably be written as a big deal.

If the religious aspect to this is a significant element, and you've no other reason for setting it in Italy, you'd probably be better choosing Smallville, Arkansas or somewhere else in the US Bible Belt where that kind of hard-core pseudo-morality is still alive and well, or else amongst one of the non-Christian immigrant populations in Europe, where the younger members of those groups frequently adopt values and behaviours that clash with those of their parents.

On the other hand, if you stick with the original idea and you're looking for a genuine 1960s Italian village as a set, there are several available for sale! :contract:
 
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Out of curiosity, is there a reason you set this in Italy? The reason I ask is that the mother's mentality would more or less require the action to take place in the most rural part of Italy, and probably some time in the 60s or 70s, which would present certain production challenges. Her homophobic mindset, in the Roman Catholic tradition, belongs to the pre-Vatican II era, and unless the sons are in their 40s or 50s and she's been buried under a rock for the reign of the last three popes, Rosario's coming out couldn't believably be written as a big deal.

If the religious aspect to this is a significant element, and you've no other reason for setting it in Italy, you'd probably be better choosing Smallville, Arkansas or somewhere else in the US Bible Belt where that kind of hard-core pseudo-morality is still alive and well, or else amongst one of the non-Christian immigrant populations in Europe, where the younger members of those groups frequently adopt values and behaviours that clash with those of their parents.

On the other hand, if you stick with the original idea and you're looking for a genuine 1960s Italian village as a set, there are several available for sale! :contract:
There are basically two reasons:
- I am Italian, so I know the area well, could potentially find people there, etc... (my goal is to also direct my stories, not just selling them)
- Unfortunately, this kind of mentality is not so outdated as you think. There are so many small cities in Italy (especially centre and south) where homophobia and racism are still pretty much the norm, you don't need to live in the 40s or 50s, believe me. And not just in Italy, people from all over the World, even big cities, still have been living "under a rock" unfortunately. So the story is set in the present days and it's absolutely believable. It's actually a way to show that even nowadays there are people who struggle with things that shouldn't even exist anymore.
 
Well, those are good enough reasons! :yes:

I live in rural France, so understand that sometimes it is difficult to explain 21st-Century concepts to people still living in the early 1900s (here, it's mostly chronic sexism/misogyny that persists) ... but in this case, I think the script should emphasise that this attitude is very much individual/personal to the mother - that she is the "abnormal" one compared to society as a whole, rather than Rosario (yes, even in rural Italy).
 
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