Dissapointing...

[Brooksy]

So not sure anyone will agree with me on this but would love to hear your thoughts. A few months back we finished shooting a short film. We sent it to a few festivals and then posted it on youtube. Sadly, it sits in hiatus. I feel there is no decent sites for short films to get noticed. Youtube and Vimeo are great but are incredibly over saturated with what seems like junk. How many times can I post it on Facebook? Film festivals are great but that can get expensive and there are only a select few that really are going to push the film to the next level. There are sites like this that are great for a few views but it seems like it quickly gets lost in the shuffle and dies. My question is how do we get seen by people who matter (No offense to anyone)? Even if sites like Aintitcoolnews.com or FilmThreat.com gave us some kind of a chance I would be happier, but it seems they are concerned with features or nothing. What can we as filmmakers do?


Sincerely, a fellow filmmaker who has a short worth seeing.

 

[Phil_UK]

Post your short!

 

[Brooksy]

Well, I did that once on this site. Again great for the short term but eventually gets lost in the longer run. No ones fault just there is a lot of stuff out there to see. But here it is again...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fSkZeURBnY

 

[finderskeepers]

Watched it and liked it. It was worth seeing. Great work! Well done!

 

[Zensteve]

My question is how do we get seen by people who matter

What happens next, when it's seen by someone who "matters"?

 

[Brooksy]

Good question. I would hope those people who matter work to get it to the next level. Talking to the filmmakers to get them working on another project, working on getting the short film turned into a feature/TV show, work with the writers on new ideas. People who matter are those that can take it to the next level. I want those people to see the film. Not just me, but there are tons of short films I have seen over the years that don't go anywhere because they are seen by the right people. I say in this day and age with the technology we have there is no reason that those films should die out. Again maybe just my opinion...

 

[finderskeepers]

Good answer. However, what EXACTLY does -> "work to get it to the next level" mean.
Is it get you money to make the short into a feature? Do you want someone who can raise $250K to 5 million dollars to see your film and decide that's the next thing they will produce? (sounds good to me too

Good question. I would hope those people who matter work to get it to the next level. Talking to the filmmakers to get them working on another project, working on getting the short film turned into a feature/TV show, work with the writers on new ideas. People who matter are those that can take it to the next level. I want those people to see the film. Not just me, but there are tons of short films I have seen over the years that don't go anywhere because they are seen by the right people. I say in this day and age with the technology we have there is no reason that those films should die out. Again maybe just my opinion...

 

[rayw]

I would hope those people who matter work to get it to the next level.
...
People who matter are those that can take it to the next level. I want those people to see the film.

Waaaaay too vague.
You need to positively identify your buyer/producer market to the point that you have names and numbers to call for an appointment/get together.

I am NOT being flippant and ugly about that position.

Entertainment content is a commodity like gravel or coal.
What makes anyone's chunk of gravel or lump of coal more special than anyone else's?
Nothing.
It's just that the "right" people get together and "make stuff happen". Not wait for stuff to come find them.

>> The conundrum is that the moment you ask for collaborative "help" is the moment you give away control.
And most people have a natural aversion to that.

Talking to the filmmakers to get them working on another project, working on getting the short film turned into a feature/TV show, work with the writers on new ideas.

Here's the b!tch of it: most creative people have THEIR OWN projects to work on.
A pipeline of them.
Columns X & Y: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsBznn8D13zOdGlCeDRmWTFCYXJRWjJ3SUphZDNzMGc#gid=0
Columns AC & AD: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsBznn8D13zOdHh6cHJBMW5aQkZSMzZYR2V3VUxQVUE#gid=0

Notice the average % of writer/directors in cells Y75 and AD63, respectively.
Those are both mighty high percentages of people pursuing their own projects, meaning very few pursuing other people's projects.

Not just me, but there are tons of short films I have seen over the years that don't go anywhere because they are seen by the right people.

Yeah. Agreed.
See above.



Writing on spec is a magic bullet.
40,000 new spec screenplays each year go absolutely nowhere.
4,000 indie films each year never get distribution.
Only a handful of those that do get distribution make a profit.

Rock of gravel.
Lump of coal.
Ear of corn.
Pound of sugar.
Barrel of West Texas Intermediate.
Another short.
Another feature.
Another spec screenplay.
Another channel of cable or satellite.


IMHO, four monkeys working together have a better chance of making bronzed monkey turds marketable than one unknown genius pounding out spun gold.
Just my opinion, though.

 

[finderskeepers]

I always imagine I'm in the desert selling a bucket of sand.
"Hey want to buy my sand, it's special?"
"Nahh. We are making our own sand right now."

Waaaaay too vague.
You need to positively identify your buyer/producer market to the point that you have names and numbers to call for an appointment/get together.

I am NOT being flippant and ugly about that position.

Entertainment content is a commodity like gravel or coal.
What makes anyone's chucnk of gravel or lump of coal more special than anyone else's?
Nothing.
It's just that the "right" people get together and "make stuff happen". Not wait for stuff to come find them.

>> The conundrum is that the moment you ask for collaborative "help" is the moment you give away control.
And most people have a natural aversion to that.



Here's the b!tch of it: most creative people have THEIR OWN projects to work on.
A pipeline of them.
Columns X & Y: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsBznn8D13zOdGlCeDRmWTFCYXJRWjJ3SUphZDNzMGc#gid=0
Columns AC & AD: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsBznn8D13zOdHh6cHJBMW5aQkZSMzZYR2V3VUxQVUE#gid=0

Notice the average % of writer/directors in cells Y75 and AD63, respectively.
Those are both mighty high percentages of people pursuing their own projects, meaning very few pursuing other people's projects.



Yeah. Agreed.
See above.



Writing on spec is a magic bullet.
40,000 new spec screenplays each year go absolutely nowhere.
4,000 indie films each year never get distribution.
Only a handful of those that do get distribution make a profit.

Rock of gravel.
Lump of coal.
Ear of corn.
Pound of sugar.
Barrel of West Texas Intermediate.
Another short.
Another feature.
Another spec screenplay.
Another channel of cable or satellite.


IMHO, four monkeys working together have a better chance of making bronzed monkey turds marketable than one unknown genius pounding out spun gold.
Just my opinion, though.

 

[rayw]

I always imagine I'm in the desert selling a bucket of sand.
"Hey want to buy my sand, it's special?"
"Nahh. We are making our own sand right now."

Yeah, well...

How many shorts are made each year?
And of those how many want to hook-up with someone else to make some magic happen?

Yeah.
I think there's about thirty-eight-thousand other people shoulder to shoulder with you hawking their buckets of sand, too.

 

[finderskeepers]

Recently I found screenwriter's linkedin profile with 29 contests wins/finalist awards. from 2005-Present

Wanna guess how many produced features they wrote?

ZERO

just 3 short films

Yeah, well...

How many shorts are made each year?
And of those how many want to hook-up with someone else to make some magic happen?

Yeah.
I think there's about thirty-eight-thousand other people shoulder to shoulder with you hawking their buckets of sand, too.

 

[DeJager]

That is why short films are a waste of time besides for practice.


Btw, I enjoyed your short film. It was intriguing and very nicely done.

 

[rayw]

Recently I found screenwriter's linkedin profile with 29 contests wins/finalist awards. from 2005-Present

Wanna guess how many produced features they wrote?

ZERO

just 3 short films

Welcome to "the biz".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiU2pKQ683s

 

[directorik]

Your expectations seem to be misplaced.

There are thousands “decent sites” for short films. There are none
that get the film to the next level. YOU have to do that. Festivals
do not get the film to the next level YOU have to do that.

My question is how do we get seen by people who matter (No offense to anyone)?

YOU have to get your short film to people who matter. And YOU need
to decide who those people are. When YOU decide who the right people
are, then you can send them your film. They will not just find it because
you post it on a web site.

Your future success based on your short film is entirely up to you. No
one else. Define who it is you want to see your film and do everything
you can to get it to those people. Once you define what you mean by
“the next level” and “people who matter” then you can target them
and get your film seen.

 

[GuerrillaAngel]

As soon as your short is finished, it's dead. Good thing you didn't sink $15,000 into it like some people I know.

I don't think having a short in your resume is impressive to anyone that matters anymore. Start to work on a feature.

Good luck.

 

[Alcove Audio]

Not bad at all. I'll just quickly blurt out my impressions...



I didn't care for the wall to wall music, and it could have used some real sound design.

The concept is not overly used, but nothing revolutionary either.

Looked nice.

Acting was okay.

A little too much talk-talk; it needed some more action.

Needed more tension at the resolution point.




Uncle Bobs score : B-/C+

 

[ItDonnedOnMe]

I always imagine I'm in the desert selling a bucket of sand.
"Hey want to buy my sand, it's special?"
"Nahh. We are making our own sand right now."

That's the problem with selling sand in the desert. If you want to be successful, you've got to take the sand from the desert and sell it somewhere they're short on sand. The trick is finding those places.

As great as indietalk is, the truth is it (and any other filmmaking community, site, etc) is the desert. It's a great place to find advice, and support, and inspiration - but it's not the place to find your audience.

Places like YouTube and Vimeo aren't either, they're too broad, too general. Your audience may be there, but they're distributed too broadly to have much chance of reaching them, especially through chance discovery. As platforms they can help amplify a popular film, but you've got to find that popularity elsewhere.

You have to start by knowing who in particular would want to watch your film... if the answer is 'anyone' or 'everyone' then it means you either don't really know the answer, or your film isn't really distinctive enough to stand out among the rest.

Unfortunately I think that may be part of Brooksey's problem. His film is good - but there are a lot of good short films being made these days. I don't see much that makes it distinctive, makes it stand out from all the other good films, makes it speak directly to any specific audience. That's not a knock against the film, but it's a strike against it when it comes to getting people to watch it.

I think you'll need to chalk this one up to experience, and move on to the next film. Only this time, identify an audience first. Figure out who they are, where they are, how you're going to reach them - and what you're going to put in the film that will make that particular audience take notice, identify with it, share it with their friends, etc.

 

[Gonzo_Entertainment]

As soon as your short is finished, it's dead. Good thing you didn't sink $15,000 into it like some people I know.

I don't think having a short in your resume is impressive to anyone that matters anymore. Start to work on a feature.

Good luck.

Except that f you haven't cut your teeth on several shorts there is a 99.99999997% chance your feature will be a complete disaster most likely running off the rails and never even being completed because you don't know what the F you're doing.

 

[Kholi]

Except that f you haven't cut your teeth on several shorts there is a 99.99999997% chance your feature will be a complete disaster most likely running off the rails and never even being completed because you don't know what the F you're doing.

So, you're saying, if you've never completed a short film then you're basically going to have a disastrous feature film? Unless you're in the negligible percentage point that could possibly have a successful one?

Inversely, that means you believe that doing short films somehow raises the chances of a successful feature film production? as if they are the same thing? Just confusing, is all.

Topic Question:

Not necessarily to the OP, but if you want your short to be seen by someone that matters be ambitious about your subject matter and production overall. There's one opinion here that states a short is dead once it's done, and as if it's bad to spend fifteen thousand dollars on it.

I'm not a major advocate of short films, but I'll say that you should probably cross check info before listening to odd blurbs like this. I can easily point you to at least three short films in the last year that did a lot for the careers of filmmakers.

They weren't new to this stuff, though, and the production value is clearly above "good".

 

[Alcove Audio]

What many of us are saying is that practice makes for proficiency and efficiency. Yes, there are those who manage to make a passable feature their first time around, but they are an extremely miniscule minority.

The difference between an amateur and a professional is that a professional learns from mistakes. And most of us are going to make LOTS of mistakes when we start out. That's what learning is all about. It's a lot more economical to make those mistakes on a small level doing shorts that will never get anywhere rather than blowing large amounts of money doing a feature that will never get anywhere.