Fasten it all kinds of places.
-Thanks-
-Thanks-
C- Clamp Jib
- Thread starter Buddy Greenfield
- Start date
Out of the geared pan/tilt, you should get smoother starts and stops to your movements (given TONS of practice - saw an interview with Kiefer Sutherland where he mentions practicing figure 8s with them).
One of those adaptations you've done really points out that in structures with this kind of reach, balance really plays an important factor. My crane is actually not perfectly situated over the center of the tripod and it adds tons of strain (luckily I overbuild heavily) to the connection point. Making sure that you have really tight tolerances and well balanced equipment you're building will help insure not only better pictures, but longer equipment life and more confidence when putting your bread and butter camera atop it!
I love me my Lazy Susan Bearing! But I also have a much broader point where my crane and my tripod attach to one another.
One of those adaptations you've done really points out that in structures with this kind of reach, balance really plays an important factor. My crane is actually not perfectly situated over the center of the tripod and it adds tons of strain (luckily I overbuild heavily) to the connection point. Making sure that you have really tight tolerances and well balanced equipment you're building will help insure not only better pictures, but longer equipment life and more confidence when putting your bread and butter camera atop it!
I love me my Lazy Susan Bearing! But I also have a much broader point where my crane and my tripod attach to one another.
Goob,
My Quick-set (Hercules) head isn't geared like an actual gear head (Like your pic).
The riser column is geared, but the tilt set up is more like for a big video camera maybe.
There are some Hercules versions that are geared though.
I want to build a gear head too, but it's such a precision machined device that I'm not sure how successful I would be. (I'll see what I can come up with though.)
Knightly,
Yeah the balance and tolerences are a major factor especially in camera stuff where every movement is ultra pronounced. I've begun making my own clevis pins (to use in place of bolts) by drilling through bolts, this has helped things a lot. The better the balance and back reach (Amount of space to back the counter weight up), the less counter weight needed too. (Remember my light boom on the lawn mower chasis? That big pipe despite it's lenght and holding a work light has a nice amount of back reach, it only takes 17 pounds of counter weight to hold it straight up, where as on the other end of the spectrum my C clamp jib seen on the ladder here is way way lighter materials, but has almost no back reach, so it took ten pounds just to balance a pocket knife. (I sacraficed weight needed for boom lenght) Being that it's held by a C clamp, not the greatest idea to have it require a lot of weight.)
Next time I go to science surplus I'll get a few Lazy Susan bearings and give'em another chance to win me over. lol (They have some rated for like 600 lbs or something, so if you can move a few people on a bearing that is some exciting possibilites I'll grant 'em that.)
I think there could be a market for specialized multi purpose/ universal attacment film making saw horses, what do you think?
-Thanks-
My Quick-set (Hercules) head isn't geared like an actual gear head (Like your pic).
The riser column is geared, but the tilt set up is more like for a big video camera maybe.
There are some Hercules versions that are geared though.
I want to build a gear head too, but it's such a precision machined device that I'm not sure how successful I would be. (I'll see what I can come up with though.)
Knightly,
Yeah the balance and tolerences are a major factor especially in camera stuff where every movement is ultra pronounced. I've begun making my own clevis pins (to use in place of bolts) by drilling through bolts, this has helped things a lot. The better the balance and back reach (Amount of space to back the counter weight up), the less counter weight needed too. (Remember my light boom on the lawn mower chasis? That big pipe despite it's lenght and holding a work light has a nice amount of back reach, it only takes 17 pounds of counter weight to hold it straight up, where as on the other end of the spectrum my C clamp jib seen on the ladder here is way way lighter materials, but has almost no back reach, so it took ten pounds just to balance a pocket knife. (I sacraficed weight needed for boom lenght) Being that it's held by a C clamp, not the greatest idea to have it require a lot of weight.)
Next time I go to science surplus I'll get a few Lazy Susan bearings and give'em another chance to win me over. lol (They have some rated for like 600 lbs or something, so if you can move a few people on a bearing that is some exciting possibilites I'll grant 'em that.)
I think there could be a market for specialized multi purpose/ universal attacment film making saw horses, what do you think?
-Thanks-
Thanks for checking it out LFO.
I like giving you guys stuff to look at (And laugh at even lol), I hope others will be like "I can do that!" and make stuff I can look at and learn from too. I'm sure some ringer builders will come along that I can learn from.
There is a practical side of film making I have always been drawn too but don't know enough or anything about really. It's great to think that there was that 1st person in the past that said "We should put the camera on a crane!" and it changed the whole ballgame in that way.
-Thanks-
I like giving you guys stuff to look at (And laugh at even lol), I hope others will be like "I can do that!" and make stuff I can look at and learn from too. I'm sure some ringer builders will come along that I can learn from.
There is a practical side of film making I have always been drawn too but don't know enough or anything about really. It's great to think that there was that 1st person in the past that said "We should put the camera on a crane!" and it changed the whole ballgame in that way.
-Thanks-
I have a quick diagram/ math thing for y'all when figuring out how much counter weight you'll need... I'll simplify the numbers to make the concept more pronounced than the actual numbers:
weight (CW) ----A---- Tripod ------------------B------------------Camera(CAM)
to find CW use this formula:
CAM x B = CW x A
so:
(CAM x B) / A = CW
This will normalize for the differences in length of the portions of the arm (A,B) and get a counter weight measure that should perfectly balance the Camera for instance
My XL1s ~ 10 Lbs + 5 Lbs for the pan/tilt head
My crane is 6 foot to the camera and 2 foot to the weight
15 x 6 / 2 = 15 x 3 = 45lbs of counter weight (which is almost exactly what I'm using -- there's some arm weight to account for as well). So the camera on the crane when fully loaded is about 100-125 Lbs pushing down on the fulcrum (tripod).
weight (CW) ----A---- Tripod ------------------B------------------Camera(CAM)
to find CW use this formula:
CAM x B = CW x A
so:
(CAM x B) / A = CW
This will normalize for the differences in length of the portions of the arm (A,B) and get a counter weight measure that should perfectly balance the Camera for instance
My XL1s ~ 10 Lbs + 5 Lbs for the pan/tilt head
My crane is 6 foot to the camera and 2 foot to the weight
15 x 6 / 2 = 15 x 3 = 45lbs of counter weight (which is almost exactly what I'm using -- there's some arm weight to account for as well). So the camera on the crane when fully loaded is about 100-125 Lbs pushing down on the fulcrum (tripod).
Pretty cool equation Knightly. (I should start using it too, cus I'm all out of weights!)
I was thinking about trying to arrive at an average camera (only) weight from general 16mm down to a flip camera (And all general prosumer in between) and try to build for that average, but I've never taken the time to look into it. (I didn't realize the XL's weighed that much.)
You should do some more stuff (in the DIY) highlighting your crane. I learned a lot from the cage, and would hope others might be drawn to or more comforatble with the possibilities of working with wood.
EDIT: Oh man, I just watched that 2nd Geared Head link from Vimeo. Too frickin' nice!
There is no way in hell I could make something that smooth.
-Thanks-
I was thinking about trying to arrive at an average camera (only) weight from general 16mm down to a flip camera (And all general prosumer in between) and try to build for that average, but I've never taken the time to look into it. (I didn't realize the XL's weighed that much.)
You should do some more stuff (in the DIY) highlighting your crane. I learned a lot from the cage, and would hope others might be drawn to or more comforatble with the possibilities of working with wood.
EDIT: Oh man, I just watched that 2nd Geared Head link from Vimeo. Too frickin' nice!
There is no way in hell I could make something that smooth.
-Thanks-
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I'd like to see the inside of one of those geared heads.
Seems like one of those simple but mind numbing mechanical operations that will taunt me.
-Thanks-
Seems like one of those simple but mind numbing mechanical operations that will taunt me.
-Thanks-
It probablly is easy, but I need to see a circle to understand how round works usually.
Making it out of parts at hand is another mind bender for me, I was at that earlier to no avail.
(I was looking in my table saw to see how that kind of threaded rod/lever tilts the blade and raises it and lowers it lol)
-Thanks-
Making it out of parts at hand is another mind bender for me, I was at that earlier to no avail.
(I was looking in my table saw to see how that kind of threaded rod/lever tilts the blade and raises it and lowers it lol)
-Thanks-
Im obsessing over building one of these. Ive been doing some research and ive decided thqt im definatley going to go with wood because i can get a 2 x 2 x 8 piece of wood for 1.68 from home depot. i cant find the bolt insert sleeves. is there another name for them. I think i can do this project for pretty cheap.
Goob,
Inserts: Really for the size and weight and material you will be dealing with, the insert sleeves (Bushings) are unneeded, BUT take a look at the pics and consider some options.
1st pic:
Bolts: See how the top bolt has a section of smooth shank? (It’s not all threads for the nut like the second bolt is.) Once you know your width of combined wood, get bolts (A bolt) with enough smooth shank so that the pivot action (Wood) is happening on that smooth metal, NOT like the second bolt that would act as a file and chew away and loosen your wood. The insert sleeve (Bushing) that you don’t really need would have the smooth shank turning against metal, so it’s one step nicer, but when you are all done building it, you can look at it and say “Hell, I’ll cut a piece of a pen or something and insert it!” and do the same thing. (But you don’t even need it.)
Washers: That is a fender washer pictured, not a Gibson <rimshot> .
You might want one of those against the wood on each side. You can have smaller washers behind it, but you might want something bigger like that (They have medium ones that are nice too) giving good (Larger area of) support, and kind of protecting the hole in the wood. Imagine if the nut on the bolt was rubbing against the hole in the wood and chewing it up. Now imagine that washer blocking the nut from doing just that. (Also, get washers with the hole as close to the bolt size as possible. These little tight tolerances add up. If the washer hole is too big, it will be sagging down and there might be uneven pressure, and it could be a little clanky even. I don't know exactly how you intend to build yours, but you might (Or likely, or obviously will) want some fender washers acting as spacers between the wood pieces, but also so it's metal on metal smooth (Less friction) in that movement.
Pins: If you want to build it “right” and save yourself hassle, get (or make) a Clevis pin (The 3rd “Bolt” in the picture”) for your pivot point (Or use them where ever is clever too). See, when you have the pivoting action of the boom going up and down, it will loosen up the nut and piss you off to no end. With a pin (And a Cotter pin, the other pin that passes through it- 4th in the picture) and enough washers to make it tight, once you wrestle the cotter pin through the hole, then that bad boy is locked in place like it should be, and you don’t have to mess with it ever again. (It’s worth the hassle.)
You can buy Clevis pins with multiple holes in them, but if you have a drill press, or know someone that does, then you can just mark off on a regular bolt shank (Once the bolt is through the wood and you see the length you need plus a little extra), then hacksaw the threads off (if you want) and drill a hole through the bolt for the cotter pin. (I do this now because A: I want stuff tight and right. B: The Clevis pins are a rip off at like 2 or 3 bucks a piece! (I need like 50 of them right now, so their price is prohibitive for me, BUT I can drill through a 30 cent bolt and do the same damn thing -and Clevis can go get F’ed!)
The Wing Nut: (Bottom of the picture.) If you HAVE TO use a bolt at the pivot point, then at least get a wing nut for it so that it’s easy to tighten all the time.
2nd pic:
See how I COULD HAVE used a bolt going through there at the pivot?
Instead I cut a bolt to about the length I wanted and drilled a hole in it, then fought washers into place (Like spacers) between the pipe and the "Pivot fork" and used a cotter pin. It’s solid (no side to side slack), and I don’t have to constantly tighten a wing nut there.
Before you start: It can seriously help if you draw your design out 1st. I do it because I need to SEE stuff, or I will make it backwards (No kidding), but it also just helps me understand stuff, and get things closer to the best I can make it the 1st time around. (Remember, you need a plan for the best way to do the head, the best way to attach some counter weight, and the best way it attaches to a stand or tripod, AND the pivot. Drawing each of them 1st will help work things out up front.)
-Thanks-
Inserts: Really for the size and weight and material you will be dealing with, the insert sleeves (Bushings) are unneeded, BUT take a look at the pics and consider some options.
1st pic:
Bolts: See how the top bolt has a section of smooth shank? (It’s not all threads for the nut like the second bolt is.) Once you know your width of combined wood, get bolts (A bolt) with enough smooth shank so that the pivot action (Wood) is happening on that smooth metal, NOT like the second bolt that would act as a file and chew away and loosen your wood. The insert sleeve (Bushing) that you don’t really need would have the smooth shank turning against metal, so it’s one step nicer, but when you are all done building it, you can look at it and say “Hell, I’ll cut a piece of a pen or something and insert it!” and do the same thing. (But you don’t even need it.)
Washers: That is a fender washer pictured, not a Gibson <rimshot> .
You might want one of those against the wood on each side. You can have smaller washers behind it, but you might want something bigger like that (They have medium ones that are nice too) giving good (Larger area of) support, and kind of protecting the hole in the wood. Imagine if the nut on the bolt was rubbing against the hole in the wood and chewing it up. Now imagine that washer blocking the nut from doing just that. (Also, get washers with the hole as close to the bolt size as possible. These little tight tolerances add up. If the washer hole is too big, it will be sagging down and there might be uneven pressure, and it could be a little clanky even. I don't know exactly how you intend to build yours, but you might (Or likely, or obviously will) want some fender washers acting as spacers between the wood pieces, but also so it's metal on metal smooth (Less friction) in that movement.
Pins: If you want to build it “right” and save yourself hassle, get (or make) a Clevis pin (The 3rd “Bolt” in the picture”) for your pivot point (Or use them where ever is clever too). See, when you have the pivoting action of the boom going up and down, it will loosen up the nut and piss you off to no end. With a pin (And a Cotter pin, the other pin that passes through it- 4th in the picture) and enough washers to make it tight, once you wrestle the cotter pin through the hole, then that bad boy is locked in place like it should be, and you don’t have to mess with it ever again. (It’s worth the hassle.)
You can buy Clevis pins with multiple holes in them, but if you have a drill press, or know someone that does, then you can just mark off on a regular bolt shank (Once the bolt is through the wood and you see the length you need plus a little extra), then hacksaw the threads off (if you want) and drill a hole through the bolt for the cotter pin. (I do this now because A: I want stuff tight and right. B: The Clevis pins are a rip off at like 2 or 3 bucks a piece! (I need like 50 of them right now, so their price is prohibitive for me, BUT I can drill through a 30 cent bolt and do the same damn thing -and Clevis can go get F’ed!)
The Wing Nut: (Bottom of the picture.) If you HAVE TO use a bolt at the pivot point, then at least get a wing nut for it so that it’s easy to tighten all the time.
2nd pic:
See how I COULD HAVE used a bolt going through there at the pivot?
Instead I cut a bolt to about the length I wanted and drilled a hole in it, then fought washers into place (Like spacers) between the pipe and the "Pivot fork" and used a cotter pin. It’s solid (no side to side slack), and I don’t have to constantly tighten a wing nut there.
Before you start: It can seriously help if you draw your design out 1st. I do it because I need to SEE stuff, or I will make it backwards (No kidding), but it also just helps me understand stuff, and get things closer to the best I can make it the 1st time around. (Remember, you need a plan for the best way to do the head, the best way to attach some counter weight, and the best way it attaches to a stand or tripod, AND the pivot. Drawing each of them 1st will help work things out up front.)
-Thanks-
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I give you Son of C- Clamp Jib.
I want to replicate the lever assembly on the other side of the boom too, so the force of the lever action is equal on each side. (Why I didn't think to do it before is beyond me.)
-Thanks-
I want to replicate the lever assembly on the other side of the boom too, so the force of the lever action is equal on each side. (Why I didn't think to do it before is beyond me.)
-Thanks-
Thats pretty fricken sweet. Have you figured out how to get the head to pan because my ideas involve cable on 2 wheels which i dont think would work. mainly because when the crane s extended all the way up, the wheel on the head will horizontal and the cable would be hitting the wheel at an extreme angle making the cable come off. I think. I haven't actually started building yet just designing in my head. it may work.
I haven't actually thought about how it might pan with that kind of head, but you are right in your suspicions about the cable/wheel being an issue. You might be able to use a little swivel pulley block in some way, but I'm not sure.
Maybe look into the Knightly cage design or one of those little servo pan tilt things to mount on the head, then run the wires for battery and control down to the operator end. Wheat had a bevel gear design that was pretty cool too. Doing that two way mechanical operation with precsion isn't easy, at least not for me, but even a fixed head, or tilt head jib is still cool.
-Thanks-
Maybe look into the Knightly cage design or one of those little servo pan tilt things to mount on the head, then run the wires for battery and control down to the operator end. Wheat had a bevel gear design that was pretty cool too. Doing that two way mechanical operation with precsion isn't easy, at least not for me, but even a fixed head, or tilt head jib is still cool.
-Thanks-
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One time I made one that I had the boom rotating from a drill. It was funny.
I will try to find a pic.
EDIT:
-Thanks-
I will try to find a pic.
EDIT:
-Thanks-
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A jib is a bitch, it can easily add much more shakiness depending on how you make it.
You can get a killer shot, then it bounces or wobbles right at the best part!
I did a step by step photo series making the Son of C-Clamp (Lever Style) one. The solid fork and stem caster piece as the main pivot opens alot of doors for presise movement.
You can't see it really, but I hollowed out a bolt and inserted the caster stem into it.
The fit for rotation, and the caster fork and stem being one solid piece combine for some killer.
Why is your camera so shakey?
-Thanks-
You can get a killer shot, then it bounces or wobbles right at the best part!
I did a step by step photo series making the Son of C-Clamp (Lever Style) one. The solid fork and stem caster piece as the main pivot opens alot of doors for presise movement.
You can't see it really, but I hollowed out a bolt and inserted the caster stem into it.
The fit for rotation, and the caster fork and stem being one solid piece combine for some killer.
Why is your camera so shakey?
-Thanks-
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