lighting Black background with bright middle lighting?

[DeadandWalking]

Hi again,

I'm not good a terminology at all, but what I want to achieve is this -

A room which is completely dark. Pitch black, and in the middle one light which is in the middle of the room shining down on a table. All you can see in the shot is the table with a light above and the few people sitting around.

How would I accomplish this? I'm more worried about getting the room pitch black then turning on the light and it showing the sides of the room really. Is there a special trick to stop that risk?

Thank you!

 

[Ernest Worthing]

gobos, flags for bocking light spill.

black materials and distance on/from walls.

 

[directorik]

If you can’t paint the walls black can you get enough draping
fabric to cover the walls? Here in the states we call it duvateen.
Any flat black fabric will work. That will keep any light from
bouncing off light walls.

Then you hang as bright a light as you can and expose to that
light. That should force everything else to be underexposed. That
can work even if you can’t cover the walls.

 

[wheatgrinder]

think in terms of the frame and not the room. You may very well bounce light on to the wall, but if that wall is NOT in the frame, then it never REALLY happened.

 

[wheatgrinder]

do this outside at night.. ???

 

[wheatgrinder]

also, dont forget about masking in post etc. of course it all depends on what your trying to do.. but sometimes for a super short shot.. a few hours of rotoscope work might be the best you can do..

 

[Ernest Worthing]

do this outside at night.. ???

if theres no ambient, thats a nice creative idea. if u need to show the floor, u can use the appropriate panels or place it on concrete. the right interior ambient sound can pull this off.

but its really pretty easy to do inside unless the room is super small.

like i said, flags on the light, black matte background, distance, relatively narrow dof and as directorik said, underexpose the background.

 

[wheatgrinder]

whops, I forget that not everyone lives in the boonies like.. me.. took out the garbage last night.. a bit cloudy.. couldn't see my hand in front of my face.

Methinks that this is harder in "concept" than execution. Fact is, most of us have a hard enough time getting enough light where we want it. Just crank up the fstops with a REALLY bright light on the subject..

 

[Buddy Greenfield]

Don’t forget about the table surface, and blow out. If the table is for instance white, it can reflect a lot of light back up which might or might not be useful.

Depending on camera position and light position and human position –and size and type of light, a white table top could help in keeping the faces from being blown out to black (Which is more a problem if the light is directly above someone), or it could reflect unwanted light onto the walls, or be a hot spot depending on the table surface and light source.

Exposure, flags, black materials and distance to the walls is spot on.


If you can, shoot it in the center of a dark garage so you have some distance from the walls, something overhead to attach your light to, and walls you can tack material up to 1-2-3.

(And depending on the story, if you have a step ladder handy consider some overhead shots to cut to too.)

-Thanks-

 

[DeadandWalking]

Thanks for the great replies

Would hanging black sheets around the room be feesable? I can't find any other materials.

Also, with the pictures posted by the last poster, the background / background objects can still be seen. I would like to achieve something like this. (lol, not a very good example).

 

[Buddy Greenfield]

Seeing the walls is to illustrate the potential reflections off a white table top and to demonstrate the throw/height of the light. (The background is a second light.)

Hang some black sheets up and try it.

-Thanks-

 

[directorik]

Thanks for the great replies

Would hanging black sheets around the room be feesable? I can't find any other materials.

If you can’t paint the walls black can you get enough draping
fabric to cover the walls? Here in the states we call it duvateen.
Any flat black fabric will work. That will keep any light from
bouncing off light walls.

 

[DeadandWalking]

Hi,

I can't find any Duvateen in the UK and painting the walls isn't an option I can buy things like THIS as an example. Just black bed sheets etc...

The room I will be using is a kitchen / living room,so there will be cabinets etc... sticking out. If I cover them up with black sheets would they still stick out? I have a normal ceiling light above a table which lights up half of the room so would I have to find a duller light?

Sorry for all the questions

Edit: The idea for using a garage is great, thank you. I will try and see if I can get one to use. What I want to achieve in this scene is a card game going on on a table between a few people. The background is completely black and the light shines down onto the table top where we get a full light view of the table and people. One of the people will be wearing yellow, and I wish to make the shot black and white with just the yellow sticking out (like in Sin City). I know how to do this effect, but would the lighting i'm trying achieve die the yellow clothes colour down?

 

[chilipie]

Hi,

I can't find any Duvateen in the UK and painting the walls isn't an option I can buy things like THIS as an example. Just black bed sheets etc...

The room I will be using is a kitchen / living room,so there will be cabinets etc... sticking out. If I cover them up with black sheets would they still stick out? I have a normal ceiling light above a table which lights up half of the room so would I have to find a duller light?

Sorry for all the questions

Edit: The idea for using a garage is great, thank you. I will try and see if I can get one to use. What I want to achieve in this scene is a card game going on on a table between a few people. The background is completely black and the light shines down onto the table top where we get a full light view of the table and people. One of the people will be wearing yellow, and I wish to make the shot black and white with just the yellow sticking out (like in Sin City). I know how to do this effect, but would the lighting i'm trying achieve die the yellow clothes colour down?

Fitted bed sheets might work, but they'll probably be a bit too thin and more expensive than necessary. Have you not got any fabric stores near you? You'll be able to look through materials yourself, hold them up to the light to see how much light they let through, and only buy as much as you need (plus a bit extra to be safe).

If you want to have the ceiling light in shot, I'd consider putting a lower wattage bulb in it. Then, above the ceiling light, hang some spot bulbs from the ceiling. These will focus the light downwards, rather than spreading it around the room. You can buy a couple of light fittings for the spot bulbs for £15 or so, and a couple of bulbs for less than a tenner.

Have you heard of the inverse-square law before? If you move an object twice as far away from a light source, it receives only a quarter of the light, so moving the foreground action just a little bit away from the background could make quite a difference.

Finally, remember it's what the camera sees that matters. You need to underexpose the background, so you may well need to use the manual exposure features on your camera rather than letting it decide for itself.

 

[directorik]

Bed sheets, especially those that are 50% polyester, will
be shiny and that will reflect light. Have you looked beyond
home stores? I've worked in the UK and have seen what
we call duvateen - I can't remember what it was called.
Check a local theater. Do you have the equivalent of a hobby
shop or a fabric shop? I know the terms can be different
(boot/trunk, lift/elevator) but there must be a place in the
UK where different types of fabric is sold.

What you want is a heavy, flat black fabric.

The room I will be using is a kitchen / living room,so there will be cabinets etc... sticking out. If I cover them up with black sheets would they still stick out?

Yes. There is no way to change the dimension of the room
with fabric. To create a "flat" wall of fabric you will need to
hang the material in front of the cabinets. This will make the
lighting even more difficult. The closer the fabric to the subject,
the harder it will be to keep light off of it.

I have a normal ceiling light above a table which lights up half of the room so would I have to find a duller light?

So in addition to having a standard kitchen you are also only
using the light in the ceiling? You won't be using different
lighting? Have you considered shooting in another room? Is
it possible to move all the furniture from the main room or a
bedroom? Using a slightly larger space will help.

You have the light intensity backwards. You want as bright a
light as you can get. Then you expose to the light and the
black fabric will go darker. The less bright the light the wider
your aperture will need to be. You want a very bright light.

Try a test shoot. Buy one sheet, hang it, place a table with
one actor in the middle of the room, place the camera and
light the scene as you plan to. Then look at the image on
a monitor and adjust the exposure on your camera. If you
can, adjust the light - dimmer and brighter. Try different
settings and even different fabric's until you get the look you
want. When you find the right combination of fabric and light
then you buy enough to cover the entire room.

 

[DeadandWalking]

Thanks for the great responses.

I have looked online for duvateen and around my area, but I cannot find any. I will try to pop down to my local theatre and see if I can rent / borrow some for the film. If I cannot get any, I will buy some thick black cloth.

I am also trying to find a huge room like a hall now. What sort of light should I be looking at if I end up filming in a huge warehouse for instance? I probably wont be able to hang it from the ceiling and i'm also on a budget.

Thanks