(typing on iPhone please bare with me). As some f you may know I am an atheist. I would really like to film a documentary on religion. I know I run a few risks by making such a controversal film but it's something I feel strongly about. Any opinions on how you feel about a documentary with such a contravercial topic. Is it a bad idea? Any objections? Suggestions? How interested are you on the subject.
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Atheist viewpoint documentary
- Thread starter DRthunderMD
- Start date
I have issues with this...so if I saw an advertisement for it I would want to see it...why? Because I would want to know what is the viewpoint of an athiest. Many athiest come across as angry God hating folks...(remember that leader of the athiest who wanted to build a church?)
Without insulting others beliefs you may be able to tap into something. I for one am curious why someone becomes athiest. Why do you need a church? Why do you get upset at other religions expressing their belieifs in public places? (without getting political)
I would love to hear interviews....
Having wrote that if you did a documentary on insulting other religious belieifs I would be turned off and not bother with it - I would think 'ah, just another angry athiest'. If your documentary was an open door to allow others to see your point of view then thats a different story. Perhaps your beliefs need to be documented...and yeah it would be controversal but it would give you a chance to share your views.
I say go for it. If its an angry peice that mocks others religions you will draw the athiest crowd...if its insightful you may draw another crowd altogether.
Without insulting others beliefs you may be able to tap into something. I for one am curious why someone becomes athiest. Why do you need a church? Why do you get upset at other religions expressing their belieifs in public places? (without getting political)
I would love to hear interviews....
Having wrote that if you did a documentary on insulting other religious belieifs I would be turned off and not bother with it - I would think 'ah, just another angry athiest'. If your documentary was an open door to allow others to see your point of view then thats a different story. Perhaps your beliefs need to be documented...and yeah it would be controversal but it would give you a chance to share your views.
I say go for it. If its an angry peice that mocks others religions you will draw the athiest crowd...if its insightful you may draw another crowd altogether.
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What's the subject? Religion from an atheists' point of view?
I am an Atheist, but I'm not one of those "Get God out of the Courts" type. I simply respect all religions but believe in none. Religion to me has more of a historical significance than anything else. But I agree with directorik, what exactly is the topic? There are topics I stay away from due to some of the extreme views some of the mainstream Atheists take. Just like religious zealots and fanatics, Athiests have our fair share as well. Personaly I'd like to see a documentary that portays the true Athiests' simple views and definition of "without religion" as oppossed to the Christian bred misconstrued and confused connotation that Atheism is the equivalent to Satinism. This couldn't be farther from the truth.
In the UK Richard Dawkins has already done some great documentaries on the subject, as well as some other related ones about Darwin.
Also, I am lead to believe that Bill Maher's "Religulous" was done in a similar style? I could be wrong.
Hello fellow atheists!
Also, I am lead to believe that Bill Maher's "Religulous" was done in a similar style? I could be wrong.
Hello fellow atheists!
I'm also an atheist, and I always like to see more documentaries on the subject. In general, my advice is to be respectful and don't always come off like you're looking for a fight or a controversy. This is something that bugs me about some atheist-oriented media. You sound pretty tolerant, so I imagine this won't be a problem. Also, it might be worthwhile to narrow down the focus of your documentary. Maybe concentrate on atheists in very religious communities? Rural atheists? Young atheists in high school or college? Elderly atheists? Atheist parents?
Anyway, sounds like a great project -- I'd love to see the result.
Anyway, sounds like a great project -- I'd love to see the result.
The subject I am talking about is just an atheist viewpoint in general. And I'm not tallking about a dumbass god hating view, I mean a scientific and fair view. I would never moe a film just to insult people. I just need to think of how to make this documentary stick out from the other atheist ones.
So just an atheist viewpoint in general. An atheist view of shopping?
Of travel? Of TV watching?
Maybe that's why you're having trouble figuring out what to make.
It seems you don't have a strong viewpoint you want others to
understand. That's usually the foundation of a good documentary -
the filmmaker has a viewpoint they want to share with others. A
general viewpoint of atheist’s seems to be “We don’t believe in a
Godlike power because there is no scientific proof.”
As a monotheist I'm not really interested in the atheist's
scientific viewpoint. I already know all the explanations.
However a fair viewpoint of an atheist might be something
interesting to me.
You should decide who your potential audience is. Are you
"preaching to the choir" like Bill Maher did? He made a movie for
people who already believe religion is an irrational belief in
the supernatural. He only interviewed kooks and wacos - while
very funny, he didn’t speak to a single, intelligent religious
person.
Or are you opening up a discussion that includes people of faith?
If so what do YOU want to learn on this journey? Or do you only
want to tell us what you feel?
These are the questions you need to ask yourself before you can
approach a thoughtful documentary on any subject.
Of travel? Of TV watching?
Maybe that's why you're having trouble figuring out what to make.
It seems you don't have a strong viewpoint you want others to
understand. That's usually the foundation of a good documentary -
the filmmaker has a viewpoint they want to share with others. A
general viewpoint of atheist’s seems to be “We don’t believe in a
Godlike power because there is no scientific proof.”
As a monotheist I'm not really interested in the atheist's
scientific viewpoint. I already know all the explanations.
However a fair viewpoint of an atheist might be something
interesting to me.
You should decide who your potential audience is. Are you
"preaching to the choir" like Bill Maher did? He made a movie for
people who already believe religion is an irrational belief in
the supernatural. He only interviewed kooks and wacos - while
very funny, he didn’t speak to a single, intelligent religious
person.
Or are you opening up a discussion that includes people of faith?
If so what do YOU want to learn on this journey? Or do you only
want to tell us what you feel?
These are the questions you need to ask yourself before you can
approach a thoughtful documentary on any subject.
The viewpoint is that of an atheist's on religion. Atheists get a bad rep for being "god haters" and evil people. I want to show people that's not true at all. Other than that being my main idea, I would like to just discuss why I, and many others believe there is hard evidence to make the existence of a god a very slim possibility.
And as for my audience, I am aiming this film at intelligent, reasonable people. I would hope to maybe sway a few religious minds, or at the very least show them that just because somebody is an atheist, doesn't mean that they are a bad person.
It helps to understand the religious point of view before you
attempt to change peoples minds. I’m a religious person - I have
been called unintelligent and unreasonable by atheists trying to
sway me away from my beliefs.
You’re right, some religious people call atheists names. Many
atheists think religious people are not intelligent enough to
see the hard evidence. I know all the hard evidence that makes
the existence of God a very slim possibility. What I have is faith.
I know there is no hard evidence to prove the existence of God -
yet I still have faith. If you can sway me (or any religious person)
away from my religious faith by showing me hard evidence I
encourage you to try.
Please understand, I’m not making this personal. I respect
atheists and this isn’t about you and me. I’m speaking strictly
as a filmmaker - and a maker and watcher of documentaries.
So let me ask you something that might help your creative thought
process when making this documentary.
Why do you want to sway a few religious minds?
Okay, let's make it personal for a moment. What do you accomplish
if I no longer have faith in God? How does that make me a better
person? How does swaying me make you a better person?
Now I understand wanting to show atheists in a better light - but
if people are so closed minded as to think all atheists are “God
haters” and evil do you believe a documentary will change them?
Let me reverse it. Is it conceivable that a documentary could sway
you? That anything I said or any movie I made could turn you into
a religious person?
I've seen a dozen documentaries that attempt to "prove" God doesn't
exist. And the hard evidence is very accurate. Yet I still have faith.
What will yours do differently?
attempt to change peoples minds. I’m a religious person - I have
been called unintelligent and unreasonable by atheists trying to
sway me away from my beliefs.
You’re right, some religious people call atheists names. Many
atheists think religious people are not intelligent enough to
see the hard evidence. I know all the hard evidence that makes
the existence of God a very slim possibility. What I have is faith.
I know there is no hard evidence to prove the existence of God -
yet I still have faith. If you can sway me (or any religious person)
away from my religious faith by showing me hard evidence I
encourage you to try.
Please understand, I’m not making this personal. I respect
atheists and this isn’t about you and me. I’m speaking strictly
as a filmmaker - and a maker and watcher of documentaries.
So let me ask you something that might help your creative thought
process when making this documentary.
Why do you want to sway a few religious minds?
Okay, let's make it personal for a moment. What do you accomplish
if I no longer have faith in God? How does that make me a better
person? How does swaying me make you a better person?
Now I understand wanting to show atheists in a better light - but
if people are so closed minded as to think all atheists are “God
haters” and evil do you believe a documentary will change them?
Let me reverse it. Is it conceivable that a documentary could sway
you? That anything I said or any movie I made could turn you into
a religious person?
I've seen a dozen documentaries that attempt to "prove" God doesn't
exist. And the hard evidence is very accurate. Yet I still have faith.
What will yours do differently?
Actually, Religulous is a prime example... only it's not technically a film about atheism or promoting such values- in fact, I believe the point was not to promote atheism as more correct, but simply to spread the idea of DOUBT in a world where even the "kooks and wacos" are ENCOURAGED to be CERTAIN by the Earthly (and heavenly) powers that be.
We can look at the kooks in North Korea that sing a lullaby to their kids that goes "The Americans cower, on their knees, shoot them in the face, lalala" (I'm paraphrasing- but look up docs on North Korea, it's f***ing scary in there!) and we can call these people brainwashed and denounce Kim Jong's propaganda machine, but as soon as the eyeglass turns on the unwinnable debate, everybody has to shut up and mind everyone's beliefs despite the fact that there's a guy on my TV who told me I'm going to hell because I think the only way Jonas would have got out of that whale was through the backdoor! God forbid we engage in "hate speech"!
Bill Maher states this implicitly in one pivotal scene- he is trying to reawaken the idea that maybe, just somehow, we don't know what the hell is actually true, so what we should stop is the BULLSHIT, not religious belief, and be free to speak our minds without FEAR. The controversy is not religion vs atheism - the controversy is CENSORSHIP.
Certainty is a terrible poison. Science is rewritten every 500 years while religion hasn't been updated since the days of sacrificing goats and firstborn sons. But it's important to separate the religions from the religious.
The major religions are INSTITUTIONS made up of a VARIETY of PEOPLE from the most extreme to the most reasonable, but by their very nature cause terrible things. We see the oppression of free speech even on this forum, where the taboo topic can cause great offense and is thus labeled a "forbidden zone" where one must tread carefully (like I'm doing, LOL), lest he or she offend someone by expressing their feelings. We hear of the silly little cartoons that incite the muslim world to call for beheadings; the nine-year-old girl in South America who was excommunicated from the church for having an abortion when the step-father who had raped her was let off with confession; we see the evidence of the holocaust persecuting the Jews... but where did Hitler get his ideas of hatred? From thousands of years of hatred cause by a collection of writings that the Emperor Constantine declared divine, in which the Jews are cursed with the blood of Jesus.
Look at the connections to: women's rights, homosexuals, slavery, priestly pedophilia, the inquisition, the rights of kings before men under God, the slaughter of the South American natives by the Spanish, Osama Bin Ladin, the crusades, Israel and Palestine, the Republicans- religious institutions do undeniable harm! Sure, it's not the whole picture, and if everybody were Atheists it wouldn't make the world a better place, but no matter what your faith, it is hard to deny that religion is not JUST for the good.
It's one thing to have faith in the idea of God, but to learn the history of the religions and see what they have produced, I would think that those who uphold the values of the truly pious would scorn and denounce the churches of today as whorish peddlers of hypocrisy and then start worshiping the sun and mummifying their dead. And likewise, I would expect the truly Atheist to immediately kill themselves upon reading this, because what's the point?
The rest of us (everyone, I expect) fall in between- the state of NOT KNOWING. From that state, we may ONLY have FAITH, but must acknowledge that it is only OUR interpretation of the available data and that since it is NOT CERTAIN, we cannot impose these beliefs on others or expect them to agree with us. Every single viewpoint is unique.
Science and Religion are simply two categorical ways at looking at life- on one hand you have the objective experimenter who looks no further than where the lines cross and the graphs end, and then the faithful spiritualist who sees the subtext of the scene in the play that he is in. Both are actually correct, in my mind... it doesn't change that in reality both the Christian and the Atheist agree that God is not visible or that the Earth is round- reality is something of a constant- but both parties are taking the data that reality feeds them and coming up with an interpretation. The problem is when groups of each party get together, negotiate, haggle and BEND THE DATA to allow them to convince the largest number of people that THEY are all correct. In reality- every single person is correct in believing what THEY believe. Those who subscribe to the opinions of the groups will always end up with the watered down version - Reality for Dummies.
But bringing it closer to the point (aka, your film)... you want to make a documentary about atheism...
Make it exclusively for atheists then. Don't bother trying to convert religious people with the facts- would you ever go rent "Religion: The Movie" and expect to walk out going "Gee, I hope one day I see a mob of men trying to rape an angel and get the chance to offer up my daughter instead. I'd do anything to make that burning bush that talks happy". You wouldn't. And no religious person is going to watch your film and think "wow, some atheists are really nice, maybe there isn't a God after all!". So why make the movie? The intelligently religious already know about stereotypes. The stupid ones ARE the stereotypes.
Atheism is a religion itself- why? Because you call yourself an atheist and thus profess CERTAINTY that there is no God.... and yet.... you didn't QUITE say that... what you said was "the existence of a god a very slim possibility".
"Slim Possiblity". Hmmm.... I smell doubt. Get me Bill Maher on the phone, pronto...
Either way- here's a better idea for you. Take that doubt and nurture it.
Make a documentary about the very nature of existence. Start from scratch.
It's 3000 years later. We don't have sun gods and solstices anymore. No living (sane) person has sacrificed their child to an invisible deity lately. God hasn't made a public appearance. Science is currently leaning towards theories that either involve multiple universes or implications that matter is holographic in nature but not a scientist on Earth understands what they're saying. The old notions are built on shaky foundations.
It is not a question of "is there or isn't there a God?".... that simply polarizes people. It gets religious people indignant because they feel stupid or ashamed or something when you present them with the facts and all they can do is say in response is usually "ooh, but i have faith". And that gets atheists boiling because they think the facts are indisputable (when really they just put FAITH in FACTS) and the other party is being willfully stupid.
And then people like me get RAGE, because they are both correct and wrong at the same time, correct in their individual interpretations.... wrong, in the question they are asking.
"What is all this?" is the question we, and your documentary should be asking. The question that humanity stopped asking when we industrialized science and religion. (and on a side-note, I'm surprised we don't have drive-through confession booths yet.) We're not asking that question any more. You're either a christian, a jew, a muslim, a catholic, an atheist, a gnostic, a witch or a pagan... but I say fuck 'em all- let's just be humans with individual ideas. Sure, Jesus is the son of God- but he also said that we're ALL sons and daughters of God. He got it, why can't anyone else? The idea is not what counts- it is the ACTIONS of people that count. We can be kind and love one another regardless of religion- so why do we need billion-dollar institutions to help "spread the (diluted) word of God"? Why do we need to slip pamphlets under doors telling people how to get into heaven? Why do we need to agree with large groups and cannot be content having our individual faith in individual ideas?
Here's what we know. We're all here together on a big rock in space and there's lots of water, plants, animals, rocks, people, stars, beautiful sunsets, martinis, nebulas, sea-tortoises, bacteria, beams of light, black holes, space-time, and the like. It's all there, because we can see it.
But what is it?
And when we ask THIS question, suddenly the polar opposites become ONE.
Because you can throw out all your holy books and look in awe on the beauty of the universe and say without shame or doubt that God IS EVERYTHING. Or you can throw away your text books and beakers and magazines too and interpret that data however you like.... because let me ask you- what IS an electron? What is a Quark? If string theory is correct- what ARE those little filaments made of? In science, we tend to label things with human names.... but "Gold" is not a word- it's an "element", but what is an element? An element is a type of... "stuff" that we.... find around the place.
It breaks down quickly when you realize that everything is a big play on words.
Suddenly, science and religion are simply label-makers that go around and slap signs on everything, telling us what to think about this or that without understanding it themselves. Silly. Immature. Dangerous.
So don't make a film about atheism. Don't make a film about religion. Make a film about reality. I couldn't give a shit what an atheist has to say because I already know what the label "atheist" means. But make me a film where a HUMAN being interprets reality and then my curiosity is piqued. I don't expect to change anyone's mind here and would even go so far to say that if you agree with me, you're missing the point. Believe what is in YOUR heart, not what the group tells you to. If you need God, you will find him, with or without the help of a creepy guy who wears a dress and distributes grape juice and crackers to a room filled with bored, sleeping people.
That's my interpretation of it, anyway.
/ rant
PS: No apologies for the length or content, but at the same time, ahem.... sorry. LOL
We can look at the kooks in North Korea that sing a lullaby to their kids that goes "The Americans cower, on their knees, shoot them in the face, lalala" (I'm paraphrasing- but look up docs on North Korea, it's f***ing scary in there!) and we can call these people brainwashed and denounce Kim Jong's propaganda machine, but as soon as the eyeglass turns on the unwinnable debate, everybody has to shut up and mind everyone's beliefs despite the fact that there's a guy on my TV who told me I'm going to hell because I think the only way Jonas would have got out of that whale was through the backdoor! God forbid we engage in "hate speech"!
Bill Maher states this implicitly in one pivotal scene- he is trying to reawaken the idea that maybe, just somehow, we don't know what the hell is actually true, so what we should stop is the BULLSHIT, not religious belief, and be free to speak our minds without FEAR. The controversy is not religion vs atheism - the controversy is CENSORSHIP.
Certainty is a terrible poison. Science is rewritten every 500 years while religion hasn't been updated since the days of sacrificing goats and firstborn sons. But it's important to separate the religions from the religious.
The major religions are INSTITUTIONS made up of a VARIETY of PEOPLE from the most extreme to the most reasonable, but by their very nature cause terrible things. We see the oppression of free speech even on this forum, where the taboo topic can cause great offense and is thus labeled a "forbidden zone" where one must tread carefully (like I'm doing, LOL), lest he or she offend someone by expressing their feelings. We hear of the silly little cartoons that incite the muslim world to call for beheadings; the nine-year-old girl in South America who was excommunicated from the church for having an abortion when the step-father who had raped her was let off with confession; we see the evidence of the holocaust persecuting the Jews... but where did Hitler get his ideas of hatred? From thousands of years of hatred cause by a collection of writings that the Emperor Constantine declared divine, in which the Jews are cursed with the blood of Jesus.
Look at the connections to: women's rights, homosexuals, slavery, priestly pedophilia, the inquisition, the rights of kings before men under God, the slaughter of the South American natives by the Spanish, Osama Bin Ladin, the crusades, Israel and Palestine, the Republicans- religious institutions do undeniable harm! Sure, it's not the whole picture, and if everybody were Atheists it wouldn't make the world a better place, but no matter what your faith, it is hard to deny that religion is not JUST for the good.
It's one thing to have faith in the idea of God, but to learn the history of the religions and see what they have produced, I would think that those who uphold the values of the truly pious would scorn and denounce the churches of today as whorish peddlers of hypocrisy and then start worshiping the sun and mummifying their dead. And likewise, I would expect the truly Atheist to immediately kill themselves upon reading this, because what's the point?
The rest of us (everyone, I expect) fall in between- the state of NOT KNOWING. From that state, we may ONLY have FAITH, but must acknowledge that it is only OUR interpretation of the available data and that since it is NOT CERTAIN, we cannot impose these beliefs on others or expect them to agree with us. Every single viewpoint is unique.
Science and Religion are simply two categorical ways at looking at life- on one hand you have the objective experimenter who looks no further than where the lines cross and the graphs end, and then the faithful spiritualist who sees the subtext of the scene in the play that he is in. Both are actually correct, in my mind... it doesn't change that in reality both the Christian and the Atheist agree that God is not visible or that the Earth is round- reality is something of a constant- but both parties are taking the data that reality feeds them and coming up with an interpretation. The problem is when groups of each party get together, negotiate, haggle and BEND THE DATA to allow them to convince the largest number of people that THEY are all correct. In reality- every single person is correct in believing what THEY believe. Those who subscribe to the opinions of the groups will always end up with the watered down version - Reality for Dummies.
But bringing it closer to the point (aka, your film)... you want to make a documentary about atheism...
Make it exclusively for atheists then. Don't bother trying to convert religious people with the facts- would you ever go rent "Religion: The Movie" and expect to walk out going "Gee, I hope one day I see a mob of men trying to rape an angel and get the chance to offer up my daughter instead. I'd do anything to make that burning bush that talks happy". You wouldn't. And no religious person is going to watch your film and think "wow, some atheists are really nice, maybe there isn't a God after all!". So why make the movie? The intelligently religious already know about stereotypes. The stupid ones ARE the stereotypes.
Atheism is a religion itself- why? Because you call yourself an atheist and thus profess CERTAINTY that there is no God.... and yet.... you didn't QUITE say that... what you said was "the existence of a god a very slim possibility".
"Slim Possiblity". Hmmm.... I smell doubt. Get me Bill Maher on the phone, pronto...
Either way- here's a better idea for you. Take that doubt and nurture it.
Make a documentary about the very nature of existence. Start from scratch.
It's 3000 years later. We don't have sun gods and solstices anymore. No living (sane) person has sacrificed their child to an invisible deity lately. God hasn't made a public appearance. Science is currently leaning towards theories that either involve multiple universes or implications that matter is holographic in nature but not a scientist on Earth understands what they're saying. The old notions are built on shaky foundations.
It is not a question of "is there or isn't there a God?".... that simply polarizes people. It gets religious people indignant because they feel stupid or ashamed or something when you present them with the facts and all they can do is say in response is usually "ooh, but i have faith". And that gets atheists boiling because they think the facts are indisputable (when really they just put FAITH in FACTS) and the other party is being willfully stupid.
And then people like me get RAGE, because they are both correct and wrong at the same time, correct in their individual interpretations.... wrong, in the question they are asking.
"What is all this?" is the question we, and your documentary should be asking. The question that humanity stopped asking when we industrialized science and religion. (and on a side-note, I'm surprised we don't have drive-through confession booths yet.) We're not asking that question any more. You're either a christian, a jew, a muslim, a catholic, an atheist, a gnostic, a witch or a pagan... but I say fuck 'em all- let's just be humans with individual ideas. Sure, Jesus is the son of God- but he also said that we're ALL sons and daughters of God. He got it, why can't anyone else? The idea is not what counts- it is the ACTIONS of people that count. We can be kind and love one another regardless of religion- so why do we need billion-dollar institutions to help "spread the (diluted) word of God"? Why do we need to slip pamphlets under doors telling people how to get into heaven? Why do we need to agree with large groups and cannot be content having our individual faith in individual ideas?
Here's what we know. We're all here together on a big rock in space and there's lots of water, plants, animals, rocks, people, stars, beautiful sunsets, martinis, nebulas, sea-tortoises, bacteria, beams of light, black holes, space-time, and the like. It's all there, because we can see it.
But what is it?
And when we ask THIS question, suddenly the polar opposites become ONE.
Because you can throw out all your holy books and look in awe on the beauty of the universe and say without shame or doubt that God IS EVERYTHING. Or you can throw away your text books and beakers and magazines too and interpret that data however you like.... because let me ask you- what IS an electron? What is a Quark? If string theory is correct- what ARE those little filaments made of? In science, we tend to label things with human names.... but "Gold" is not a word- it's an "element", but what is an element? An element is a type of... "stuff" that we.... find around the place.
It breaks down quickly when you realize that everything is a big play on words.
Suddenly, science and religion are simply label-makers that go around and slap signs on everything, telling us what to think about this or that without understanding it themselves. Silly. Immature. Dangerous.
So don't make a film about atheism. Don't make a film about religion. Make a film about reality. I couldn't give a shit what an atheist has to say because I already know what the label "atheist" means. But make me a film where a HUMAN being interprets reality and then my curiosity is piqued. I don't expect to change anyone's mind here and would even go so far to say that if you agree with me, you're missing the point. Believe what is in YOUR heart, not what the group tells you to. If you need God, you will find him, with or without the help of a creepy guy who wears a dress and distributes grape juice and crackers to a room filled with bored, sleeping people.
That's my interpretation of it, anyway.
/ rant
PS: No apologies for the length or content, but at the same time, ahem.... sorry. LOL
On this subject which never seems to be answered: Why does an athiest need to prove anything if nothing exists? If there is nothing to believe in, then there is nothing to prove so why waste your time trying to prove something that isn't there?
Would it be on the fact that you are just like everyone else only with a non belief? As already posted, why try to sway someone to believe in nothing? That makes little sense to me.
Just questions....oddly enough on tv last night they did a story on the woman (forgot her name) who was a nationally known athiest. She created some organization centered around athiesm (why create something dedicated to nothing?) and was later murdered by the accountant.
So my question is (if you are making a documentary from a different angle) why bother creating something (a documentary, a church, an organization) around something that doesn't exist? It would seem that anything created is done so as a dedication to something that does exist. If that makes sense.
If you could answer that, you might create a story on something that no one else has...(to be honest, I haven't seen any documentaries on the subject).
Meanwhile, one of the reasons athiests have the reputation they do is because of the woman who created the organization. Once I saw her on Donohue (I think it was him) and she was soooo friggen bitter at anyone that questioned her or challenged her. She came off as nasty , rude and ignorant. If her mission was to create a common bond between different religions against her non belief , than she suceeded in that.
Would it be on the fact that you are just like everyone else only with a non belief? As already posted, why try to sway someone to believe in nothing? That makes little sense to me.
Just questions....oddly enough on tv last night they did a story on the woman (forgot her name) who was a nationally known athiest. She created some organization centered around athiesm (why create something dedicated to nothing?) and was later murdered by the accountant.
So my question is (if you are making a documentary from a different angle) why bother creating something (a documentary, a church, an organization) around something that doesn't exist? It would seem that anything created is done so as a dedication to something that does exist. If that makes sense.
If you could answer that, you might create a story on something that no one else has...(to be honest, I haven't seen any documentaries on the subject).
Meanwhile, one of the reasons athiests have the reputation they do is because of the woman who created the organization. Once I saw her on Donohue (I think it was him) and she was soooo friggen bitter at anyone that questioned her or challenged her. She came off as nasty , rude and ignorant. If her mission was to create a common bond between different religions against her non belief , than she suceeded in that.
Just because an atheist chooses to base their beliefs of scientific evidence doesn't mean that their viewpoint is invalid or 'non-existent'.
Seems to me like there are some strong stereotypes about atheists in America (all of those things mentioned in this thread about 'god hating' and 'ignorant, nasty, rude, bitter people' aren't prevalent assumptions about such here in Europe)... it could be a good thing for a well crafted and even handed documentary to dispel some of these myths. If it were to resort to a level where atheists are calling religious types 'idiots' and religious types are calling atheists 'sinners' then there will be no good to come of it.
Seems to me like there are some strong stereotypes about atheists in America (all of those things mentioned in this thread about 'god hating' and 'ignorant, nasty, rude, bitter people' aren't prevalent assumptions about such here in Europe)... it could be a good thing for a well crafted and even handed documentary to dispel some of these myths. If it were to resort to a level where atheists are calling religious types 'idiots' and religious types are calling atheists 'sinners' then there will be no good to come of it.
Good stuff here.
I personally have been trying to get many Christians around me to understand the way I feel without calling them ignorant (that type of behavior goes nowhere). They understand that I don't hate God, and that I personally do not want to wipe out theirs or anyone's religion.*
I believe that is where the movie Religulous went wrong. I would go in the opposite direction by putting together a documentary where it shows how we came to the conclusion through facts based in history and science without being condescending would be the best way to do this.
I would also contact several of the groups that are out there that make a positive influence on society that are non-religious and non-hating including:
Athiest.org
americanhumanists.org
*Just to clarify, I never ever try to force my beliefs on anyone, I don't know if what I believe will work for other people. Only if people ask to i try to explain my viewpoints = I try to think of myself as a Humanist more than anything. I genuinely love everybody and try to learn something new about people everyday. For some strange reason I have hope for mankind, I believe that it is the individuals that most exemplify what can be of the future.
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I used to be religious, so I think ihave a good idea of what the religious viewpoint is. Not to group all religious people As a whole, but in general I mean. Directorik, I have a completely open mind to this so please tell me what you think. According to the bible I am going to hell for doubting the holy spirit. And heaven is supposed to be the perfect place where you are always happy. But how can my parents be happy while their son is burning in hell for eternity?
A great documentary would be from your own journey...self discovery. My interest in what you are trying to achieve has nothing to do with religion but from a personal life journey pov. I always want to know why people think and do what they do...how did they get to where they are now?
As far as it being athiest...I have always wondered why bother? Why bother spending so much time and engery into something that doesn't exist. It is has to do with my own curiosity on others. My brother was once athiest but couldn't tell you why (he isn't anymore). A friend of mine was athiest because of all the personal problems she went through growing up...she wore a cross on her neck too (she couldn't explain why but it had some deeper meaning).
She isn't athiest anymore.
Good luck.
As far as it being athiest...I have always wondered why bother? Why bother spending so much time and engery into something that doesn't exist. It is has to do with my own curiosity on others. My brother was once athiest but couldn't tell you why (he isn't anymore). A friend of mine was athiest because of all the personal problems she went through growing up...she wore a cross on her neck too (she couldn't explain why but it had some deeper meaning).
She isn't athiest anymore.
Good luck.
Pardon me for bumping in here...
This sounds like a great idea. I am not an atheist, but would be very interested in watching a documentary about what kazze mentioned - your personal journey. It seems much more interesting and possibly moving than a simple generic documentary. If it's about you personally I as a viewer will start to care about the story of the film.
- Leo
This is something I, too, wonder. The hard evidence and proof
that nothing exists has always seemed like folly. The faith
in God exists. How can you prove with hard evidence that
God does not? Can one prove with hard evidence that unicorns
don't exist. Is the lack of physical evidence really proof?
Please don’t take this as a put down, but at your age I very much
doubt you have much of an understanding of the religious
viewpoint. You understand your parents viewpoint and you may have
an understanding of your families religion. but how well do you
know the Torah? How well do you know the general viewpoint of
Islam? Do you understand, in general, the viewpoint of those who
follow the Bhagavad Gita?
My point being; the religious viewpoint is vast. Your current
understanding of what the Bible says about heaven and hell is too
narrow and shows, to me, that you understand your parents
viewpoint of this, but not the religious viewpoint in general
about heaven and hell.
I’m trying to avoid a religious discussion. It makes people angry,
passionate and moves the discussion away from film and your
documentary. So while I’d be glad to answer your question, but
I’d prefer to discuss this off the board.
But I’d love to know your answers to my questions as it directly
relates to your documentary.
Similarly, how can you prove with hard evidence that unicorns DO exist? The answer to all of these questions is 'you can't'. Yet logic, related evidence and scientific fact would suggest a probable correct answer to the question.
Religious people sometimes equate their own personal 'proof' with 'faith' and other completely subjective experiences, such as "just knowing inside". I have had people like that turn to me and say things like "well I just KNOW I'm right, you have to prove to me that I'm wrong". Personal belief systems shouldn't work like that, it's not a spiritual pissing match.
Why is the atheist tasked with proving the non-existence of god? I am a dyed-in-the-wool atheist and I don't believe I need to prove the non-existence of god to justify my belief system. Even further, if it could be proven scientifically that god DOES exist I would happily change my opinion on the subject. I'm sure many atheists would be happy to be proven wrong. That is the nature of scientific discovery - new findings uncover information about things that prove what was previously thought of as impossible. Until god can be proven in such a way, I'll wait.
And to bring it back to the documentary, I think the personal journey aspect will appeal to the broadest audience.
Check out this link: http://richarddawkins.net/convertsCorner ... sounds like someone is already doing a roject very similar to this for C4 (UK television).