Are blank guns a good investment?
- Thread starter Wilbs23
- Start date
It depends on the overall scale of the project.
Quality Airsoft will sell 99% or more of your viewers. The nice guns have blowback that simulates the action of the hammer and bolt when you fire. You can use Airsoft in locations where you can't have a blank gun, and you can use Airsoft on set with city permits without a pyrotechnician (like a blank gun requires).
With that said, a blank gun does look and probably more inportantly feel like a real gun. When your actor fires they get real kick, the gun has weight to it so they don't have to think about faking it. Chances are you'll still add in digital muzzle flash in post, unless you get a gun and blanks designed to really ham it up like Hollywood does and we're use to seeing. A normal blank won't flash much, the pyro guys enerally fill their own. You also get real shells ejecting vs doing it digitally with Airsoft. It's really easy to do though, and digitally you can really control where you want it to go. Actually, there are a few Airsoft rifles that eject dummy brass just for looks.
I'd stick with Airsoft most of the time on any independent budget, just the $150 gas pistols vs the $1 (we have some) plastic ones. With natte black paint those $1 ones actually do great haha.
Quality Airsoft will sell 99% or more of your viewers. The nice guns have blowback that simulates the action of the hammer and bolt when you fire. You can use Airsoft in locations where you can't have a blank gun, and you can use Airsoft on set with city permits without a pyrotechnician (like a blank gun requires).
With that said, a blank gun does look and probably more inportantly feel like a real gun. When your actor fires they get real kick, the gun has weight to it so they don't have to think about faking it. Chances are you'll still add in digital muzzle flash in post, unless you get a gun and blanks designed to really ham it up like Hollywood does and we're use to seeing. A normal blank won't flash much, the pyro guys enerally fill their own. You also get real shells ejecting vs doing it digitally with Airsoft. It's really easy to do though, and digitally you can really control where you want it to go. Actually, there are a few Airsoft rifles that eject dummy brass just for looks.
I'd stick with Airsoft most of the time on any independent budget, just the $150 gas pistols vs the $1 (we have some) plastic ones. With natte black paint those $1 ones actually do great haha.
remember you still want it to look exactly like a gun. in my opinion I am going to use real guns but you must make sure they are ok. no bullets in the clip or chamber because remember what happended to brandon lee. keep the gun on saftey and maybe even dont put a clip in.
That's the most irresponsible piece of advice I have ever heard.
I'd suggest you never, ever, ever use a real gun on set.
As for purchasing the blank guns. Are you going to use them alot, do you foresee other projects that require them, or would it be cheaper to rent?
That's not for us to know. Only you know what's ahead for your material.
Personally, I wouldn't commit to buying, I don't think it's "Budget-wise". There are always other areas that would need the extra cash.
I only invest in glass.
So, the question is, are you going to use blank guns in future projects to the extent that the price of renting would go beyond the purchase price?
Doesn't the answer depend on your needs? As Paul said, it
depends. There is no answer to this question. Prop masters
invest in blank guns - it makes them more versatile. Are
you planning on being a props master?
Ask yourself how many movies you will use the gun in. Then
divide the cost of the gun over those movies. Look at that
number. Is it a good investment for you?
As papertwin said, how much are you going to be using them? Also, depending on your circle of filmmaker friends, you can then be "the guy who can rent us good guns" or "the guy with cool guns to get to collaborate with". That sort of networking/collaboration does have value and don't overlook that.
As for using real guns, lest we forget: http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=30648
As for using real guns, lest we forget: http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=30648
I agree. There are far too many things that could go wrong.
Also, for some more information on using weapons on set, I highly suggest you read this: Weapons and Indie Film-makers: Indie Arms philosophy
Also consider how "educated" your audience is as to actual gun operation.
By and large, I see major film directors forcing actors to do the most unnecessary hammer cocking, slide racking and shotgun pumping for dramatic effect.
Audience doesn't care.
Audience is stupid... I mean "ignorant"... I mean "forgiving".
Audience demands to see "big appearing guns" when it's the bullet that really matters. (I loathe seeing Desert Eagles in the hands of 90pound waitresses).
Audience demands to see a brilliant muzzle flash when reality is just a small burp of flame and mostly smoke.
Audience demands to hear some freaking hand cannon resonating in a 30" drainpipe when in reality most weapons sound like sharp little cracks when they fire.
Real guns have heft to them you can see in the actor's hands and wrists.
Fake guns get whipped about as if they are made of plastic. Uh... maybe because... they are!
Directors love having actors shoot from the hip at dangerous foes.
I prefer a more precise alignment of my three dots/triangles/whathaveyou and placing a bead on target.
Does your audience really care?
(And DON'T EVER use a real gun on set).
By and large, I see major film directors forcing actors to do the most unnecessary hammer cocking, slide racking and shotgun pumping for dramatic effect.
Audience doesn't care.
Audience is stupid... I mean "ignorant"... I mean "forgiving".
Audience demands to see "big appearing guns" when it's the bullet that really matters. (I loathe seeing Desert Eagles in the hands of 90pound waitresses).
Audience demands to see a brilliant muzzle flash when reality is just a small burp of flame and mostly smoke.
Audience demands to hear some freaking hand cannon resonating in a 30" drainpipe when in reality most weapons sound like sharp little cracks when they fire.
Real guns have heft to them you can see in the actor's hands and wrists.
Fake guns get whipped about as if they are made of plastic. Uh... maybe because... they are!
Directors love having actors shoot from the hip at dangerous foes.
I prefer a more precise alignment of my three dots/triangles/whathaveyou and placing a bead on target.
Does your audience really care?
(And DON'T EVER use a real gun on set).
I don't believe it to be ignorance, or stupidity, or even naivety.
It's the often charming side of a film-maker that mistakes belief for ignorance. Everything we create is an illusion.
The audience will believe, why would they not?
But I'd call that "belief", not ignorance, or any slight toward a movie-goer for that matter.
I'm sure it wasn't your intention to diminish our audience. (I guess you where going more towards questioning authenticity) Yet, it seemed to say toward the former.
No. I was my ABSOLUTE intention to call out the general audience as being at most ignorant, if not outright stupid.
No one who knows WTH they're doing stands over the soon-to-be shot and pulls back the pistol hammer.
No one who knows WTH they're doing doesn't check to see if there's "one in the pipe" before racking their slide.
No one who knows WTH they're doing grabs a shotgun and starts pumping it.
No on who knows what gunfire looks or sounds like thinks they come with two foot fire plumes and a thunderous sound of Zeus farts.
It's just ridiculous.
So, why do audiences put up with it year after year after year of directors directing actors to do these things and post FX people to compose these things?
They don't know any better.
Choreographing sex scenes to go MUCH more elegant than real sex is one thing. But if the same principles were applied from gunplay to foreplay you'd have actors revealing 4ft penises and 50 gallon breasts with grunts and groans and screams of delight not heard of since before Sodom & Gomorrah were detonated.
Nah.
The audience is plenty ignorant.
I think the reason we directors do all the things you mention
is because they are more cinematic than the actual reality. And
I think that's one reason why audiences put up with it.
I have made a lot of movies with guns. I almost always have a
stunt coordinator or props person who knows a lot about guns.
I pretty much ignore their advice. Not of set and gun safety, but
on what is more "accurate".
To me a movie is an escape from reality and not a documentary
on correct or accurate gun use. I suspect that if most gun fights
in movies were totally accurate they would be less cinematic and
quite boring. Even those who do know better seem to think that
way.
is because they are more cinematic than the actual reality. And
I think that's one reason why audiences put up with it.
I have made a lot of movies with guns. I almost always have a
stunt coordinator or props person who knows a lot about guns.
I pretty much ignore their advice. Not of set and gun safety, but
on what is more "accurate".
To me a movie is an escape from reality and not a documentary
on correct or accurate gun use. I suspect that if most gun fights
in movies were totally accurate they would be less cinematic and
quite boring. Even those who do know better seem to think that
way.
This. There's nothing wrong with realism, but I get caught up in a story because it's entertaining and not because it's true to real life.
Agreed, real life is often boring. Cars don't explode on their own, guns run out of bullets, one shot can be enough to kill the good guys, or at least prevent them from walking or moving anymore.
Most people realize it if they think about it, but it's ok, it's fun.
Most people realize it if they think about it, but it's ok, it's fun.
Ignorant is to know no better. To be knowingly ignorant is just an acceptance.
Do you think the audience truly believe that cars, when struck with a bullet, explode?
I constantly speak about "Honoring the material" but being over-zealous is a common form of entertainment. The need to be "Cinematic" is at the heart of almost every genre apart from "Realism".
This debate could grace just about every cinematic release.
Rocky wouldn't survive those beatings.
Godzilla would never visit Tokyo.
Nobody will ever make it to the airport on time, or get past the gate, to see their loved ones sitting at the window seat.
True, infinite reality is "Reality television", or in the case of film "Realism".
The audience isn't ignorant.
Do you think the audience truly believe that cars, when struck with a bullet, explode?
I constantly speak about "Honoring the material" but being over-zealous is a common form of entertainment. The need to be "Cinematic" is at the heart of almost every genre apart from "Realism".
This debate could grace just about every cinematic release.
Rocky wouldn't survive those beatings.
Godzilla would never visit Tokyo.
Nobody will ever make it to the airport on time, or get past the gate, to see their loved ones sitting at the window seat.
True, infinite reality is "Reality television", or in the case of film "Realism".
The audience isn't ignorant.
I once had an argument with someone who I had previously considered reasonably intelligent about just this. Seriously changed my estimation of this person! Overall, I agree though. People can distinguish between fantasy and reality, and just happen to prefer a bit more fantasy in their entertainment. I like to assume people are smarter than I think (and that I'm not as smart as I think I am!)
Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel
No. I was my ABSOLUTE intention to call out the general audience as being at most ignorant, if not outright stupid.
No one who knows WTH they're doing stands over the soon-to-be shot and pulls back the pistol hammer.
No one who knows WTH they're doing doesn't check to see if there's "one in the pipe" before racking their slide.
No one who knows WTH they're doing grabs a shotgun and starts pumping it.
No on who knows what gunfire looks or sounds like thinks they come with two foot fire plumes and a thunderous sound of Zeus farts.
It's just ridiculous.
So, why do audiences put up with it year after year after year of directors directing actors to do these things and post FX people to compose these things?
They don't know any better.
Choreographing sex scenes to go MUCH more elegant than real sex is one thing. But if the same principles were applied from gunplay to foreplay you'd have actors revealing 4ft penises and 50 gallon breasts with grunts and groans and screams of delight not heard of since before Sodom & Gomorrah were detonated.
Nah.
The audience is plenty ignorant.
Nah.
People are plenty stupid.
Scary stupid.
Mythbusters wouldn't be in its eighth season if people weren't so stupid.
And don't forget my original statement began with "Also consider how "educated" your audience is as to actual gun operation".
Granted, if you're making a ROBOCOP/EQUILIBRIUM/MATRIX type cartoon movie - GOPHERIT!
By all means, put in the hand-gatlin guns with twenty foot flames of death!
But if you're shooting a HEAT/THE TOWN sort of stories then maybe... not quite so much cinematic fantasy BS.
Maybe.
People are plenty stupid.
Scary stupid.
Mythbusters wouldn't be in its eighth season if people weren't so stupid.
And don't forget my original statement began with "Also consider how "educated" your audience is as to actual gun operation".
Granted, if you're making a ROBOCOP/EQUILIBRIUM/MATRIX type cartoon movie - GOPHERIT!
By all means, put in the hand-gatlin guns with twenty foot flames of death!
But if you're shooting a HEAT/THE TOWN sort of stories then maybe... not quite so much cinematic fantasy BS.
Maybe.
Mythbusters wouldn't be in its eight season if didn't have an audience. People like what they like.
I like Mythbusters, that's why I watch it.
HEAT/THE TOWN is it a reality TV show? Or just based on reality? If not, then it's not always going to be true to real life procedure.
There's a programme on prime-time television in the UK. That has been with the same street for 50 years. There has been over 1500 characters, over 300 murders, 200 car crashes, 400 weddings.
It's supposed to be realistic. They walk, talk, and for the majority act like most. Millions tune in to watch it every night.
I totally understand where you are coming from. But I wouldn't call any audience stupid.
I like Mythbusters, that's why I watch it.
HEAT/THE TOWN is it a reality TV show? Or just based on reality? If not, then it's not always going to be true to real life procedure.
There's a programme on prime-time television in the UK. That has been with the same street for 50 years. There has been over 1500 characters, over 300 murders, 200 car crashes, 400 weddings.
It's supposed to be realistic. They walk, talk, and for the majority act like most. Millions tune in to watch it every night.
I totally understand where you are coming from. But I wouldn't call any audience stupid.