Am I asking too much of my DP?

harmonica44 · Jan 31, 2012

Since I don't have permission to light at night I have to shoot with a 1.4 lens without light. It's a chase sequence I want to finish for my first short. I have one shoot date left and hope to get it right this time. Now when shooting at night with a 1.4 my DP has to constantly pull the focus everytime an actor moves a few inches. Since this is during a chase, that means she will have to pull focus, every third of a second or less, pretty fast while running as well.

My DP cannot do it so far, and she says that asking one to do so is unreasonable. How do other focus pullers do it? I don't want to be unreasonable or anything, but don't know the way to do it. Thanks for the advice.

harmonica44 · Nov 2, 2012

Okay but that would be tough with the camera moving, and I got to insert the windows frame by frame, as the image is moving. It's just a lot of post work, when I was hoping to get most of it right on set. And before people on here were telling me just shoot at night, wide open aperture, and forget day for night, cause it's more complex. Now it seems the verdict, is 1.4 is not good enough...

Well this DP did not learn day for night, in his courses, but we can do tests if he's up for it. In my opinion it still doesn't look near as good as real night though. Another problem is is that it takes place on the streets. This guy is being stalked by gangsters and boxed in, and has to fight back. At night, the streets are empty. There are a lot of lights on the streets, which I was going to use at 1.4, plus some lights, of mine which I was going to carry around and point while shooting.

If I do this in the daytime, the streets are filled with people. And having guys dressed like gangsters, boxing someone in, with cameras around, will cause the general public to stare. It also doesn't make as much sense for the plot, for a gang to want to murder him, in full view of a crowded street. I was hoping to use this particular street for cinematic purposes.

jax_rox · Nov 2, 2012

harmonica44 said:
before people on here were telling me just shoot at night, wide open aperture, and forget day for night, cause it's more complex. Now it seems the verdict, is 1.4 is not good enough

Everyone is still saying the same things - your options are still day for night, or night for night. You're the one who said you would have trouble deciding what to keep focus on at f/1.4, so then the option of shooting day-for-night was presented to allow you to keep extra things in focus.

knightly · Nov 2, 2012

harmonica44 said:
Okay but that would be tough with the camera moving, and I got to insert the windows frame by frame, as the image is moving. It's just a lot of post work, when I was hoping to get most of it right on set.

A) Blender is free and has tracking built in... you won't need to keyframe all that much - and it won't be as labor intensive as you think...
Blender: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVPcT0dJmoY (just using a plane with an image/video on it instead of modeling a hole)
After Effects: http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorials/magic_tracking/ (just using images/videos of the windows rather than street signs)

B) Increase your budget, shoot at night and light the set with a couple of 10Ks and a generator. Night for Night... smaller aperture... longer DoF - Problem solved.

B is a sarcastic comment. You've asked for solutions, you've been given solutions, but you're unhappy with the reality of them. Budget filmmaking is compromises and lots of hard work. Make the choice, do the work... you're an indie director - your volunteer crew look to you to make a decision. It doesn't need to be right, but it needs to be made. Ever forward, you've spent a week trying to decide how you want to shoot this one scene. You've been give options, including changing the script so the scene happens during the day. Pick one, move on.

Which solution does your DP recommend of the ones offered, have you conferred with them? They ultimately have to execute the shot. Collaborate. Decide. Ever Forward.

harmonica44 · Nov 2, 2012

My DP is not sure. Like some shots are wide, from the stalking gansters' point of view. I have to shoot the victim run along side buildings with a light blasting on him, from either a rooftop of the building, or through a parked car window or something. When you close the aperture, to get more DOF, all you see is that light and cannot see the buildings behind so it looks like a spotlight. It will be an all black shot with spotlights. We'll keep doing tests, and I'll make some time to play with after effects for day for night, and see if I can come up with anything that looks convincing.

gebo · Nov 2, 2012

harmonica44, you ask too much of everyone...

dlevanchuk · Nov 2, 2012

harmonica44 said:
My DP is not sure. Like some shots are wide, from the stalking gansters' point of view. I have to shoot the victim run along side buildings with a light blasting on him, from either a rooftop of the building, or through a parked car window or something. When you close the aperture, to get more DOF, all you see is that light and cannot see the buildings behind so it looks like a spotlight. It will be an all black shot with spotlights. We'll keep doing tests, and I'll make some time to play with after effects for day for night, and see if I can come up with anything that looks convincing.

Dude.. Shut up and shoot your damn scene already. 4 pages have been filled with your nonsense and excuse not to shoot your scene. Do you even want to make movies? Are you being same pain in the a** on your set? Find a reason to shoot your 15 second scene: use other car head lights, flash lights, lights from the window, glow in the dark underwear, whatever you can! Jesus!
Shot 1: a guy creeps next to house, with you moving a camera in front of him. Done
Shot2: a guy creeps next to a house with you losing behind him. Done
Shot 3: guys foot carefully stepping on the ground so he isn't heard.
Shot4: PPv from the inside. A guy creeps past the window.
Done!! What's so complicated about this??????????????????????????????????????????

This shot takes 20 mins to film + 20 mins to set up on no budget, but you manage to f**k with this topic since January of this year!

knightly · Nov 2, 2012

Perhaps you can find a way to blend the two so your wider shots are night shot and yoru CU are tight enough to shoot D4N

gebo · Nov 2, 2012

dlevanchuk said:
Dude.. Shut up and shoot your damn scene already. 4 pages have been filled with your nonsense and excuse not to shoot your scene. Do you even want to make movies? Are you being same pain in the a** on your set? Find a reason to shoot your 15 second scene: use other car head lights, flash lights, lights from the window, glow in the dark underwear, whatever you can! Jesus!
Shot 1: a guy creeps next to house, with you moving a camera in front of him. Done
Shot2: a guy creeps next to a house with you losing behind him. Done
Shot 3: guys foot carefully stepping on the ground so he isn't heard.
Shot4: PPv from the inside. A guy creeps past the window.
Done!! What's so complicated about this??????????????????????????????????????????

This shot takes 20 mins to film + 20 mins to set up on no budget, but you manage to f**k with this topic since January of this year!

Haha!! Well said... :lol:

lightcameraction · Nov 2, 2012

dlevanchuk said:
Dude.. Shut up and shoot your damn scene already. 4 pages have been filled with your nonsense and excuse not to shoot your scene. Do you even want to make movies? Are you being same pain in the a** on your set? Find a reason to shoot your 15 second scene: use other car head lights, flash lights, lights from the window, glow in the dark underwear, whatever you can! Jesus!
Shot 1: a guy creeps next to house, with you moving a camera in front of him. Done
Shot2: a guy creeps next to a house with you losing behind him. Done
Shot 3: guys foot carefully stepping on the ground so he isn't heard.
Shot4: PPv from the inside. A guy creeps past the window.
Done!! What's so complicated about this??????????????????????????????????????????

This shot takes 20 mins to film + 20 mins to set up on no budget, but you manage to f**k with this topic since January of this year!

Thank you.

harmonica44 · Nov 7, 2012

Yeah but that DP lost interest back then so I took a break while looking for more collaborators.

WalterB · Nov 7, 2012

harmonica44 said:
Yeah but that DP lost interest back then so I took a break while looking for more collaborators.

Probably lost confidence because you don't take (or seem to take) any decisions.

Shoot at night with 1.4.
Use your maincharacter's perspective and let something happen to him to blur his vision: drunk, maze, pepperspray, cutting to much unions, griefing, whatever. Find an excuse to loose focus and you can shoot at night.

Or shoot at day in small alleys.
Or rewrite it to daytime.

Be creative.

And.... finish your first short with all the flaws in it.
If you can't finish your first short, because it isn't perfect, you will never finish anything, because it's never 100% perfect.

(dlevanchuk has a point...)

jax_rox · Nov 7, 2012

WalterB said:
If you can't finish your first short, because it isn't perfect, you will never finish anything, because it's never 100% perfect.

The saying goes 'movies don't get finished, they get abandoned'. So if you can't finish this...

All it takes is one decision. If it works great, if not you know for next time. This isn't going to be the last film you make, and if it is, then this industry isn't for you. It won't even be your best film. So, just get out there and make it. Go and do it - if it's good, great, if it's bad, there's always the next one.