Am I asking too much of my DP?

H

harmonica44

Since I don't have permission to light at night I have to shoot with a 1.4 lens without light. It's a chase sequence I want to finish for my first short. I have one shoot date left and hope to get it right this time. Now when shooting at night with a 1.4 my DP has to constantly pull the focus everytime an actor moves a few inches. Since this is during a chase, that means she will have to pull focus, every third of a second or less, pretty fast while running as well.

My DP cannot do it so far, and she says that asking one to do so is unreasonable. How do other focus pullers do it? I don't want to be unreasonable or anything, but don't know the way to do it. Thanks for the advice.
 
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You are asking too much of your equipment.

This type of thing is possible with cinema lenses where you have actual witness marks on the lens for focus, and 250-300 degrees of barrel rotation on the lens. Trying to do this with still lenses where the barrel distance from 10' to infinity focus is around 1/3" in circumference is basically ludicrous. Technically your 1st should be able to properly measure the scene and mark where things are happening, but with a still lens where the marks go from 10' to infinity with no reference in between, what do you do when you need to mark 11, 16, 17, 12, 15, 22, 16, 11, and 14 in that order. Nevermind when you are talking feet and inches in the measurements.

Since there is lots of camera movement something like a Preston wireless would also be highly recommended. Chances are if you had access to those items, you would be lighting the scene to a deeper stop and possibly even using range-finding focus assist devices connected to the focus motor. With or without rangefinders, your 1st would have their own monitor to confirm their work. The key though is lighting to a deeper stop.

Also, the pull would be constant motion, not at fractional second intervals as you describe.

But I digress. The best thing you can do is use your widest available lens at the farthest distance possible while still satisfying your desired frame, and then hope for the best. It also helps if your actors maintain awareness of where they are in relationship to the camera. Working together the DP and talent should be able to stay relatively equidistant throughout the shot. Won't save you at 1.4, but it will make it somewhat easier. Seriously though, if you can't get light in there, AND you don't have a 1st AC working with your DP, then your chances are pretty slim.
 
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I might consider getting one before the next shoot then, unless there is an easier way. I could try lighting without permission maybe and just getting it over with fast maybe, but I would need some really really really long extension cords, and at least one light with a really powerful long distance. How do you no budget filmmakers do it?
 
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Generators open up a whole can of worms. The noise they create makes shooting a challenge. Also, a cheap generator may only work a couple of minutes and never work again.

It is easier to re-write the scene as a day scene than to undertake all of the headaches you're in for.

My DP was happy to see we had no outdoor night scenes because of generator issues. Big budget productions with big crew and expensive equipment can string a generator truck a good distance away from the actual shoot with long cables.
 
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have your focus puller (in situations this complex... pulling focus and running the camera are too monumentally challenging to expect one person to be able to pull off either well -- so this should be a person dedicated just to focussing the camera) look at the external monitor while they are focussing and have a focus knob of some sort (either with a separate belt drivey thingy or a chopstick and some rubber bands to get the control farther away from the body of the camera). They should have marks that the actors will hit (assuming the camera isn't moving forward or backwards in space in relation to the actor) which have been premeasured (like castle forces did for their trebuchets - marked in the field in front of the castle with colored flags) and then put a piece of white marking tape on the lens for the focus puller to mark their distances on. During the take, the focus puller will know the blocking as well as the actor does - and they will perform their focus pull along with the actor. The actor should be slightly telegraphing their movements (see the Michael Caine Acting for Camera stuff on youtube) so the camera crew can move with them rather than having to react to the movement -- giving the blocking a more natural feel, rather than reactive. This will also allow the puller (1st Assistant Camera) to predict the actors' movements and have the focus in motion with them as they move. Knowing the marks on the lens and on the set, they just have to interpolate between them to hold focus throughout the movement. If it's a difference of an inch, you actor needs to hold still to react to the technical needs of the environment, or the DP needs to tell you you're full of crap and provide more light so the camera can be stopped down slightly to extend the DoF slightly making the 1st AC's job more realistic. There are people who specialize at this one thing as it's such a mission critical job -- your DP is probably wearing multiple hats (DP, Key Grip, Gaffer, Cam Op, 1st AC, 2nd AC), something's gonna give.
 
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harmonica44 said:
How do you no budget filmmakers do it?
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Generators like that are standard issue in cases like this. Very easy to string 50'-100' away from where you are, and then take 3 pieces of plywood with furniture pads (aka sound blankets) to box it off, leaving the open side facing away from the camera, actors, etc.

You keep mentioning that you don't have "permission" to use lights, I'm not certain how to interpret that. You can use the space but not any lighting? Or is it an equipment limitation?

Alternatively, is it possible to re-write the scene so that the chase has lasted through the night, and this portion of it is happening at dawn? (thus more like, more field, better chance of your DoP hitting marks).

Is there a dedicated 1st? The biggest problem you have is that whoever is pulling focus is pulling marks over 1-2" of range on the lens, rather than the something approaching the full circumference on the barrel. As Knightly mentioned, your DP really needs a hand on a shot like this.
 
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Can't argue with any of the points Knightly and David are making.

I'll also throw out there that as much as I bitch about people thinking an on camera LED is the go to lighting solution for DSLR (it sure isn't), this might be one of the times it's useful. I just used one for key light on the talent's face during a long dolly run down a sidewalk at night. It actually worked out pretty well.
 
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If I recall, the specific point on the globe we're talking about has a much longer nighttime at this point in the year than daytime - and not much light during that day... due to stellar geometry, hence the need for so much night time stuff.

Correct me if I'm wrong H44.
 
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knightly said:
something's gonna give.
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I say the script needs to give some. Might suggest do day for night. Need to shoot it where you can close down on the aperture to f 5.6 or 8 so you can keep focus and ISO under 800, easier to mess w/ contrast, colors. lower saturation and add light effects in post. Even if you have to do frame by frame for a few seconds, this would be easier to do IMO.

Im sure even doing 1.4 you are bumping up the ISO and grain can be an issue. DSLRs have a sweet spot, need to stay withing that range is what I have learned.







.
 
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I had a small gas powered generator that lasted a grand total of two minutes and never worked again. For the two minutes that it worked that little monster was louder than a sit-down gas powered lawn mower. If H44 has issues with sounds in a house, he is in for a whole new adventure with headaches masking the noise of a generator.

Re-writing the script for a day chase will save more headaches than he can bare.
 
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I already shot some of it at night and day and trying to match it but have been unsuccessful. It would be less to shoot probably if I kept the night stuff, and shot at night, rather than scrap the night footage, and reshoot it in the day. I might not have to reshoot any of it if I can get the day for night to match the night shots. Here's an example of an edit I did:

http://youtu.be/ndmA-3nuFp0

I need to make it look continuous, since it's all the same scene of the story. The shot on the street I shot at night, because yes, where I live there hasn't been a lot of daylight this winter to shoot for a whole day, and make it look continuous. I shot these shots, out of order, in the timeline of story, and shot according to which location, I could get to first the quickest. The scene on the street has street lights and car headlights, which makes it look more like night. So I figure the night looks good in that shot, therefore. However for the back alleyway, there are no light sources.

I can't just set up lights at night in the alley, without risk of neighbors calling the cops, since I have no permission. Running around with a camera shooting is okay though, and no one cares. I have been trying to match up the shots to make them look the same with After Effects but no luck so far. My next shoot date is coming up, and I hope it's the last if I can plan to redo all the mistakes in this last sequence, all in one day. However, are these two shots for one, matchable? If they then I should be able to match the rest.
 
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The second time around always goes faster because everyone knows what they have to do.

You stand a good chance of re-shooting the whole scene in daylight than another night shoot that will take longer.

No lights with good sunlight can save time all the way around.
 
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Well I could reshoot those scenes in the day then, and make them look like night, but that would be a lot to reshoot, compared to the other way around. Can I make that footage match at all?
 
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