Advice on acheiving slo-mo falling scenes (example inside)

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Thrash632

I want to shoot a scene for an abstract short film where a girl is falling in slo-mo (like 300fps). In the example music video below, there are some scenes where actresses are suspended in air and appear to be falling in slo-mo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwZx-udWuxI

Does anyone have any advice on how to achieve this? I was thinking about renting some sort of flying rig from a theater. What would be the best way to put the actress in the falling motion?

It seems that I would have to rent a Red Epic to get that slow of a motion at 1080p. Does anyone know of any other (cheaper) cameras that do this slow of a motion at full high def, 1080p?

Thanks.
 
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Thrash632 said:
I want to shoot a scene for an abstract short film where a girl is falling in slo-mo (like 300fps). In the example music video below, there are some scenes where actresses are suspended in air and appear to be falling in slo-mo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwZx-udWuxI

Does anyone have any advice on how to achieve this? I was thinking about renting some sort of flying rig from a theater. What would be the best way to put the actress in the falling motion?

It seems that I would have to rent a Red Epic to get that slow of a motion at 1080p. Does anyone know of any other (cheaper) cameras that do this slow of a motion at full high def, 1080p?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

A few tips:

1. You will need a lot of lighting for 300FPS. The higher you go, the more light you need, if you don't want to crank up that ISO.

2. A good way to make her fall would depend on what backdrop you want. If you are doing this on a monochrome background for keying in post, then anything goes. Your best option is to dress her with something that would emphasize her movement. Such as a long dress, long hair perhaps.

3. The fall itself could be a real fall. Have her jump from something tall to a thick mattress that is out of frame. In 300FPS, you'll achieve a good result. A flying-rig could be effective, though I have no experience with those, so I can't help with that.

4. A cheaper camera for your needs would be to rent the new Sony FS700 - which gets up to 300FPS in 1080p.
 
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Weisscam, Phantom, IDT..

Keep in mind that @ 300fps, you're going to need decent lighting. Let's assume that you're using an FS700 (which has a base ISO of 500), and that you're running off a standard household circuit, and plan to shoot with a 2k open-face at about 8m away (only just over standard safety distance). You'd need a lens aperture of ~f/1


To get to a f/2.0, you'd need a 5k at ~9m which is only just over standard safety distance..
 
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ClockworkNinja said:
Couldn't you just film it at normal speed and slow it down in post?
Click to expand...

Not for simulating 300fps from 24fps, no.

Slowing down with software solutions relies on the software being able to magically create all those non-existant frames that you need. The more missing frames that need to be created, the dodgier it's going to look. The software will have its best guess (by comparing existing before & after frames) at what the missing frames look like, but when it has to start relying on the frames that it's already guessed at... things start to get real ugly. :lol:

If possible, leave as little to fix in post as you can.
 
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Also keep in mind your record time per card is going to drop significantly, a card that would otherwise hold an hour at 24 fps is going to only get you about 5 minutes of 300fps footage, as well things like focus pulls are going to have to be completely perfect, as two seconds of out of focus footage, say a late focus pull is going to translate to ~30 seconds of out of focus footage when played back
 
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I did not know the FS700 did 300fps at full HD. That would be MUCH cheaper to rent than an Epic. It's only going to be one scene in a 6 min music video that will be a few mins long tops, so I wasn't eager to have to drop the money on renting a Red Epic for a few mins of footage.

Does the FS700 shoot continuous at 300fps in full HD or in bursts?

Also, how does the image quality of the FS700 compare to the Red Epic and the Canon 5d Mark ii? I am using a 5d Mark ii for other scenes in the video.

I like the idea of having her naturally fall onto a mattress.

Time to do some more research!
 
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Many of those shots look less like 'falling' and more like 'slomo-weightless'. If you want something abstract & cool (yet similar), you might consider shooting in a swimming pool, like the Oracle in 300.

If shooting high-speed seems cost-probibitive, then consider Twixtor or some similar retiming software. The results might be right for you CLICK

Phillip BLoom is a prolific writer, his notes HERE are a good start.

Also, Motion is a fairly good option. CLICK

EDIT> Software will never look as good as shooting high speed, but a major advantage of retiming in post (for the indie filmmaker) is you don't need to light for high speed. This is also a good tip for the low-budget miniature shooter.

EDIT> Optical flow is a great piece of tech for the Pro and Indie, alike. Sometimes it's plug & play, but the other 99% of the time it needs refinement. If you a patient, and willing to put some time into cleaning up the artifacts, the results are worth it.
 
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I don't get it. You guys love to throw money of the window.

You're not going to spend thousands for a frickin' scene.

You shoot it a 60 fps on GREEN screen and slow the hell out of it with twixtor. Twixtor can do it fingers in the nose if your subject and your background are well separated which will be easier to do with a green screen. Be sure to have a fast shutter and that's it.

And shoot your actor standing, emulating a falling motion, with powerful fans in front of him, rotating your camera so that when you watch it you feel like he's falling.
 
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To be fair, Twixtor Pro is $595. To rent a FS700 for a day you're looking at $150-250... Then you can get it right in the cam. I've worked with Twixtor before with varying results. It doesn't do everything good.
 
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I shot some test footage and tried using Twixtor, but it didn't look right. The person falling is going to have long, flowing hair and a flowing garment. The hair and clothes starting warping all weird like. Twixtor worked great where there are real clean edges, like limbs. Long hair unfortunately doesn't have real clean, simple edges.
 
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Software is the same as hardware. Turning it on and hitting 'go' doesn't guarantee a result. Technique takes time & practice. Does buying a RED camera guarantee you'll shoot a good movie? No, it gives you the capability of shooting one. The same applies with software, you need to test, fail, learn, and test again.

If Thrash has Final Cut Studio, then he already has all the software he needs. If he drops some money into additional software, he has it forever, and can develop some expertise with it, instead of just a day rental.

In terms of a camera rental: I have absolutely nothing against it, but let's not oversimplify the process. A high speed camera is not his only production expense; he'll need extra lighting, fast lenses, possibly more than one day to shoot, and maybe a reshoot. Thrash said he's shooting a scene, not just a shot. A typical production procedure (and best practice) is to find your 'look' before you have actors in wardrobe & makeup. This involves a test day to explore frame rate, shutter speed, lighting, exposure, SFW (wind, water ...) and wardrobe (Silk vs Gortex; how they move at high speed).

I don't want to start a huge debate over this issue. As always, there are 50 ways to do this stuff. I've been open about my production experience in shooting visual effects, so I hardly qualify as a true 'indie' filmmaker. My tendency is not to half-ass it, because I generally work on things that cost money. Thrash, no matter which way you go (camera v.s. software) save yourself some headaches, and test it before you do it.


Thomas
 
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I am looking at a bunch of reviews and test footage of the FS700 in slow-mo at 1080p and am now seriously considering in investing in one. I realize that a one day rental will most likely not be enough since I will have to do a lot of testing with the camera to get the shot to look the way I want it to look. The thought of having access to super slo-mo 24/7 is really enticing too. :)
 
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Why do you need it 24/7?

Cinematically do you really need to use it all the time? Or just because you can? Are we really doing things these days just because it 'looks cool' rather than because it furthers the story? Not only that but having it all the time completely changes your workflow, as I've said - you're going to need at least 5k of light, for example and that's assuming you have a fast lens and want a shallow DOF. You'll need 10k of light to light for f/2.8.

Then you diminish your record times by 12x, you'll need someone ocnstantly dumping footage, and/or 4-5 high capacity cards..

Many people shoot at 60-100fps and then slow down in post because they don't have as big lighting, space, etc. issues, not just because 'their camera can't do it'.

Not only that, but unless the slow-mo has a specific story purpose, you're creating these issues and hassles for yourself for no reason...
 
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You can also move outside on a bright sunny day and take advantage of all the free light. It'll be dark and somewhat more indoors looking when running your shutter 1/240-1/480 or higher at 240fps.
 
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TheArtist said:
I can understand that Twixtor will have trouble with the hair although I would do something to the hair and try to make it work with Twixtor, not buy something just because the hair won't do.


For the standing with fans thing, I should give credit where it's due. I saw it on Ryan Connolly's youtube channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93Eb___Xmsw&feature=plcp
Click to expand...

Organic non lineair movement is hard to interpolate.
I've done tests with splashing water and dancing hair: crazy warps are most likely to happen.
In this video slowing thing down from 60fps to 120fps worked in shot 1 and 4. (With AE timewarp-pixel motion)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_le1-C1_a4
In the second shot it didn't work: hair, hands and jacket got warped. (In Twixtor and AE timewarp-pixel-motion)

Maybe at 120fps or 240fps it get easier for the software to interpolate it properly.
(FS700 will shoot 1080p up to 240fps, after that resolution noticably drops)

Standing with a fan in front of a greenscreen has been a solution for ages. Remember the Emperor fall in Return of he Jedi? ;)

Anyway: _Rok_'s advice is sound:
test test test!

(But recording higher framerates excludes software created warps :P)
 
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The deadline is approaching on this project and I won't be able to get access to an FS700 soon enough. In weighing my options I am going to try using Twixtor with footage from my 5d Mark ii. Any advice on what settings will make the footage easier for Twixtor to work with? I read that the faster shutter speed the better, since it minimizes motion blur (which throws off Twixtor). I also figured I would shoot at 30fps rather than 24 so I have 6 more frames to help Twixtor out. Other than that, any suggestions?
 
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