A Legit Way To Fund Raise

I believe I should be able to sell VOD downloads of the 22 minute production with my on line distributors to generate income to complete the 40 minute version.

That is, I believe, a legit way to fund raise to complete the 40 minute version.

I have 2 distributors.
 
I haven't submitted the production to them yet. I'm waiting on the press to come in.

Seriously duds, they are distributing the original IC now. I think the 22 minute version should be a shoe in.

I'm also waiting on WAB to submit it to IMDB for our promotional production page. That may be a few weeks away.
 
How much will a 22 minute version cost? How much do you get and how much do your distributors get? Finally, who's going to buy it?

People here are asking the hard questions, don't take it poorly or personally, it's in most cases given in a good heart to help you succeed.
 
Holy smokes! What a typo? My bad!

I really meant "dude."

I don't pay anything to the distributors, if that is what you are asking. They pay out royalties based on download sales. They are pretty big and well-known in the indie world.

I think I know what Paul is worried about because I ran into an "indie distributor" in another forum who wants filmmakers to pay "posting fees" and he takes percentages as well. When I told him one of my distributors, CreateSpace does not charge posting fees, he passed it off as them using a different business model and they are in a different league from him. They sure are. Not to worry, Paul, my distributors are big enough to get it shown everywhere.

The target amount to raise is $10,000. I will look into additional sources besides my 2 distributors that are big and legit as well and hope the combined royalties may hit $10,000 over several months. If not, I can add to it next year with next year's tax refund.

The reviews are free too. So, they should be interesting to read. The editor of one seemed very interested in the fact the production is 100% self-financed and how I put the funds together to make it.

Hopefully, that may lead to an interview later.
 
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No I was asking about per-sale. iTunes for example averages about 33%, so you're making $.67 on every dollar sold. The real nuts and bolts of the question is how many do you have to sell to meet your goal? It seems like if you can make $10k off online sales, a WAAAAY better business plan is to make more stuff for online sales instead of dumping that money into a TV pitch.

We sell online too. Our two main distributors give us 50% and 33% of the sales. We sell shorts tailored for an extremely, extremely specific market (rather large) who frequent the sites and our best selling one grossed like an 1/8 of what you're trying to. That's fine, we budget time and expenses so that works. But to sell $10k worth of one video just on the better paying site we'd have to sell well over 1300 copies.

Is that a number you can pull off, or is another strategy a better one?
 
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I'm thinking of combined sales from multiple sites. I'm thinking of starting an account with Itunes. I already have accounts with blip.tv, createspace, and bigstar tv.

Two other sites I have to look more into are YouTube and DailyMotion. They have paid per view options available for filmmakers to make money as well.

Another avenue besides cable tv is a web series. However, NYTVF and NATPE will put it before the eyes of tv networks worlwide as well as syndicators, distributors, investors, and industry people who can help. So, it's worth the effort.

I hear that HBO pays better than SyFy. Even getting the pilot or a movie aired on any of the cable networks will improve on line viewing of a web series version. I am friends with 2 producers who have sold content to HBO. So, I pick their brains for tips and advice.

So, I'm looking at this from different angles and will try more than one way to see what will work best.
 
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I'm in no better position then anyone else to pass judgement or offer advice but don't you think you're being a little too optimistic with your projections here? You want to make 10k in around 7 months? My math is poor but thats..what..$357 a week you would need to make off sales? say you charged $10 a copy, that would work out at you having to shift 36 copies a week to meet your target.

Do you honestly think you can do that? I mean I don't buy VOD but im pretty sure they'd retail a feature at around $10 and a 30 minute episode at around $2-3? If thats the case then you'd need to sell...er...119 copies a week to meet your target.

I dont want to know you dude but thats a pretty big freaking ask for any indie film maker
 
As I said, I will add more to it next Spring from my next tax refund to bring it to the goal of $10,000.

The $20,000 that funded the 22 minute version did nor come from one source either.

This is way more realistic than to depend on crowd funding for $10,000.
 
As I said, I will add more to it next Spring from my next tax refund to bring it to the goal of $10,000.

The $20,000 that funded the 22 minute version did nor come from one source either.

This is way more realistic than to depend on crowd funding for $10,000.
 
I'm in agreement with everyone else - that seems like a pretty unrealistic goal if you don't already have a fairly sizable audience who are clamoring for the opportunity to pay for your show.

I also don't get the idea of having accounts set up for distribution with all these different sites. That's not likely to improve sales very much, it's a very passive way of marketing if you're just putting it on these sites and hoping someone 1. finds it and 2. decides to pay for it. To get anywhere near your goal you'll need to do some serious, active online marketing. If you are planning to do that it would be better to stick with a single distribution option that works best for you financially and your audience technically - then you can focus all of your marketing efforts on driving traffic to that one source.

That's the thing - hosting and selling your video is no big deal, there are plenty of options for that. It's the marketing and promotion that matters.
 
That's where publicity comes in. I'm hoping good reviews will lead to more reviews and interviews.

There may be more financial help. A film sales agent based in the UK likes the production enough to contact a NY TV professional to contact me to help get the 40 minute production completed.

Fingers crossed.
 
My crew and a friend who is an independent producer / director are offering more suggestions to fund raise.

The producer / director is suggesting I write short stories and novels on the I, Creator series and sell them as e-books on line.

The crew thinks we should sell merchandising, such as toys.

I asked a friend who is a composer if we can work on a music video.

These are in addition to VOD sales to increase our chances of reaching our mark.

It's been a good 17 years since I wrote a novel. So, it may take some time to get back into the grove. Short stories may be easier.
 
Update!

My friend who is a music composer replied. He likes the idea of the music video. He is watching the 22 minute production for ideas for a song. He will send me a rough of the song when he has something together.

My prop master is working on silver demon hunter dolls. He will also work on cyborg dolls.

I am still scripting IC3 and layering a subplot to IC4 - Earth Rebooted into IC3. It may take time to start on e-books. But, I will look for my original hand written manuscripts for I, Creator and its' prequel Future Pioneers. Having the manuscripts should make writing e-books easier.
 
Update!

My friend who is a music composer replied. He likes the idea of the music video. He is watching the 22 minute production for ideas for a song. He will send me a rough of the song when he has something together.

My prop master is working on silver demon hunter dolls. He will also work on cyborg dolls.

I am still scripting IC3 and layering a subplot to IC4 - Earth Rebooted into IC3. It may take time to start on e-books. But, I will look for my original hand written manuscripts for I, Creator and its' prequel Future Pioneers. Having the manuscripts should make writing e-books easier.

It's great to hear that you are expanding the "IC Universe" But are you looking at these things as possible ways to make money?
Because if you don't have a fanbase or an audience who is demanding these products I don't see how they're going to help you raise equity for your production.

If you can get those guys to do all that for free, then that's great, but I certainly wouldn't put any money in producing music videos or action figures if there is no demand for them.

You said that you have invested $20,000 of your own money towards the 22-minute production, in this case I would personally advise you to not invest another dollar in it, not because I think that the production is worthless or anything, I wouldn't know enough about it to form a personal opinion, but simply because there is no money to be made with short films.
Even though you are doing this as a pilot, but because there is no TV channel or production company involved, it's technically a short film and you can't make any money with short films.

I understand that it is a passion project, but I would suggest that in the future you learn how to budget things more tightly.
Even though I haven't seen the 22 minute version, but from the material I've seen there isn't anything on the screen that would require a $20,000 budget.

I understand that the costs add up as you go along, but with a $20,000 budget and a tight schedule and budget you could have done so much more.
If you aren't going to make any money with it, you can't expect others to make money either.
A good DP I would invest in, all the others, actors and crew should be working for basically gas money.
I don't know who you have been paying and how much, but there are plenty of hungry actors and aspiring filmmakers who would love the chance to work on a sci-fi production like yours, even for very little money.

And before I get a bunch of guys grabbing my throat for saying this, I don't suggest that you don't pay professional crew members decent wages, I'm just saying that when you are doing a very low budget independent production that you are paying out of pocket, you HAVE TO get people working for free or for very little money, and there are plenty of people who will.

In the past you have talked about how you are going to hire TWO professional stunt coordinators to work on this production, I would suggest against it.
It will not bring any additional value to the production and it will probably end up costing you a whole lot of money.

My opinion on what you should do is to finish this current production, whatever you have in the can you use that, and if you have to shoot some more material you should do that with basically no extra money.

You can then use that as your "reel". You won't make any money with it but you can use that to go on to bigger things.

You have talked earlier on how you would like to produce content for SYFY. Look at their programming and see what you could do. A show is out of the question at this point.
They just announced their new line-up/pilots/projects in development, every single one of them is run by a veteran showrunner, written by veteran writers and starring veteran tv-actors, either that or they are some cheap reality show.

One thing that they still do buy from independent production companies is movies, mainly horror and creature feature.
Look at the writers who are writing these movies, contact them and show them your 22 minute production and tell them you want to make a creature feature movie, you won't pay him/her any money at this point, but if they trust you they will work with you.

Come up with a bunch of titles and loglines and present them to the honchos at SYFY. You should be able to get a meeting with the help of that writer who has worked with them before.
If they bite at anything, then good, if not ask them what they are buying at the moment, then go prepare another slate of titles and loglines based on their notes.

If all else fails you can take the $10,000 you were going to spend on IC2 and invest that into a microbudget feature, and you can produce the creature feature/horror/whatever movie on your own, or if you really wanna risk it you come up with a movie idea with the writer from SYFY and you put the ten grand towards producing a trailer for the project or an opening scene, one or two day shoot with professional DP and RED cameras and the whole deal, that should warrant you another meeting at SYFY at least.
 
It's great to hear that you are expanding the "IC Universe" But are you looking at these things as possible ways to make money?
Because if you don't have a fanbase or an audience who is demanding these products I don't see how they're going to help you raise equity for your production.

If you can get those guys to do all that for free, then that's great, but I certainly wouldn't put any money in producing music videos or action figures if there is no demand for them.

You said that you have invested $20,000 of your own money towards the 22-minute production, in this case I would personally advise you to not invest another dollar in it, not because I think that the production is worthless or anything, I wouldn't know enough about it to form a personal opinion, but simply because there is no money to be made with short films.
Even though you are doing this as a pilot, but because there is no TV channel or production company involved, it's technically a short film and you can't make any money with short films.

I understand that it is a passion project, but I would suggest that in the future you learn how to budget things more tightly.
Even though I haven't seen the 22 minute version, but from the material I've seen there isn't anything on the screen that would require a $20,000 budget.

I understand that the costs add up as you go along, but with a $20,000 budget and a tight schedule and budget you could have done so much more.
If you aren't going to make any money with it, you can't expect others to make money either.
A good DP I would invest in, all the others, actors and crew should be working for basically gas money.
I don't know who you have been paying and how much, but there are plenty of hungry actors and aspiring filmmakers who would love the chance to work on a sci-fi production like yours, even for very little money.

And before I get a bunch of guys grabbing my throat for saying this, I don't suggest that you don't pay professional crew members decent wages, I'm just saying that when you are doing a very low budget independent production that you are paying out of pocket, you HAVE TO get people working for free or for very little money, and there are plenty of people who will.

In the past you have talked about how you are going to hire TWO professional stunt coordinators to work on this production, I would suggest against it.
It will not bring any additional value to the production and it will probably end up costing you a whole lot of money.

My opinion on what you should do is to finish this current production, whatever you have in the can you use that, and if you have to shoot some more material you should do that with basically no extra money.

You can then use that as your "reel". You won't make any money with it but you can use that to go on to bigger things.

You have talked earlier on how you would like to produce content for SYFY. Look at their programming and see what you could do. A show is out of the question at this point.
They just announced their new line-up/pilots/projects in development, every single one of them is run by a veteran showrunner, written by veteran writers and starring veteran tv-actors, either that or they are some cheap reality show.

One thing that they still do buy from independent production companies is movies, mainly horror and creature feature.
Look at the writers who are writing these movies, contact them and show them your 22 minute production and tell them you want to make a creature feature movie, you won't pay him/her any money at this point, but if they trust you they will work with you.

Come up with a bunch of titles and loglines and present them to the honchos at SYFY. You should be able to get a meeting with the help of that writer who has worked with them before.
If they bite at anything, then good, if not ask them what they are buying at the moment, then go prepare another slate of titles and loglines based on their notes.

If all else fails you can take the $10,000 you were going to spend on IC2 and invest that into a microbudget feature, and you can produce the creature feature/horror/whatever movie on your own, or if you really wanna risk it you come up with a movie idea with the writer from SYFY and you put the ten grand towards producing a trailer for the project or an opening scene, one or two day shoot with professional DP and RED cameras and the whole deal, that should warrant you another meeting at SYFY at least.

+1

Congratulations ED (I'm not sure if that's the best acronym) on very quickly becoming one of the top contributors here. Great advice, time after time.

Let's hope it's heeded.
 
It's great to hear that you are expanding the "IC Universe" But are you looking at these things as possible ways to make money?
Because if you don't have a fanbase or an audience who is demanding these products I don't see how they're going to help you raise equity for your production.

If you can get those guys to do all that for free, then that's great, but I certainly wouldn't put any money in producing music videos or action figures if there is no demand for them.

You said that you have invested $20,000 of your own money towards the 22-minute production, in this case I would personally advise you to not invest another dollar in it, not because I think that the production is worthless or anything, I wouldn't know enough about it to form a personal opinion, but simply because there is no money to be made with short films.
Even though you are doing this as a pilot, but because there is no TV channel or production company involved, it's technically a short film and you can't make any money with short films.

I understand that it is a passion project, but I would suggest that in the future you learn how to budget things more tightly.
Even though I haven't seen the 22 minute version, but from the material I've seen there isn't anything on the screen that would require a $20,000 budget.

I understand that the costs add up as you go along, but with a $20,000 budget and a tight schedule and budget you could have done so much more.
If you aren't going to make any money with it, you can't expect others to make money either.
A good DP I would invest in, all the others, actors and crew should be working for basically gas money.
I don't know who you have been paying and how much, but there are plenty of hungry actors and aspiring filmmakers who would love the chance to work on a sci-fi production like yours, even for very little money.

And before I get a bunch of guys grabbing my throat for saying this, I don't suggest that you don't pay professional crew members decent wages, I'm just saying that when you are doing a very low budget independent production that you are paying out of pocket, you HAVE TO get people working for free or for very little money, and there are plenty of people who will.

In the past you have talked about how you are going to hire TWO professional stunt coordinators to work on this production, I would suggest against it.
It will not bring any additional value to the production and it will probably end up costing you a whole lot of money.

My opinion on what you should do is to finish this current production, whatever you have in the can you use that, and if you have to shoot some more material you should do that with basically no extra money.

You can then use that as your "reel". You won't make any money with it but you can use that to go on to bigger things.

You have talked earlier on how you would like to produce content for SYFY. Look at their programming and see what you could do. A show is out of the question at this point.
They just announced their new line-up/pilots/projects in development, every single one of them is run by a veteran showrunner, written by veteran writers and starring veteran tv-actors, either that or they are some cheap reality show.

One thing that they still do buy from independent production companies is movies, mainly horror and creature feature.
Look at the writers who are writing these movies, contact them and show them your 22 minute production and tell them you want to make a creature feature movie, you won't pay him/her any money at this point, but if they trust you they will work with you.

Come up with a bunch of titles and loglines and present them to the honchos at SYFY. You should be able to get a meeting with the help of that writer who has worked with them before.
If they bite at anything, then good, if not ask them what they are buying at the moment, then go prepare another slate of titles and loglines based on their notes.

If all else fails you can take the $10,000 you were going to spend on IC2 and invest that into a microbudget feature, and you can produce the creature feature/horror/whatever movie on your own, or if you really wanna risk it you come up with a movie idea with the writer from SYFY and you put the ten grand towards producing a trailer for the project or an opening scene, one or two day shoot with professional DP and RED cameras and the whole deal, that should warrant you another meeting at SYFY at least.

I do appreciate your advice.

The writer I know writes for bigger TV networks than SyFy. He wrote and produced science fiction series on Fox TV. He wrote episodes for Star Trek Deep Space Nine, Forever Knight, Star Trek Voyager, and many other science fiction shows.

I don't do monster movies, however.

I'm too stubborn NOT to complete the 40 minute version of IC2. And, I'm hammering away at the script for IC3. There will be plenty for die hard sci-fi fans to love in the story of IC3.

I'm getting excellent feedback on e-books from science fiction writers on different boards I'm on with them. They are all saying, go for it. A novel will sell better than short stories. But, even short stories will bring back more money than the investment to write the stories. Every little bit brings me closer to reaching the mark.

I may be crazy, but I've even emailed query letters to small local newspapers who I've seen review independent films.

Stunt coordinators.

I threw away money on a non union stunt coordinator I had to fire before every actress in the production quit. He is the second non union stunt coordinator I had to fire for making the cast's lives miserable.

For IC3, we will be going union. And, I'm bringing in top of the line in the industry. The cast already saw action clips of studio productions of what their new stunt coordinator worked on. And, they are thrilled to have a chance to work with someone of such high caliber. I know this person over ten years and this person wants to help and told me what contracts I will need to make it happen.

But, IC3 will have to be funded by sources other than me. That is where NATPE comes in.

Believe it or not, IC2 is attracting film sales agents. I've been contacted by 2 of them from different countries. One in the UK and one in India. So, things are looking up.
 
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The writer I know writes for bigger TV networks than SyFy. He wrote and produced science fiction series on Fox TV. He wrote episodes for Star Trek Deep Space Nine, Forever Knight, Star Trek Voyager, and many other science fiction shows.

Has the writer promised to come on your project as a writer?

He will most likely be WGA so you would have to become a WGA signatory production and you would have to pay him WGA minimum rates, though most writers of that caliber won't work for minimum rates, but of course that is always negotiated.

I don't do monster movies, however.

Regarding monster movies. I'm not sure if all of the people involved in these productions necessarily like doing them, it's just that those are hot right now, those movies are what sells.
There are very few people in the entertainment business who are in a position where they have the absolute freedom to choose what they do, the rest have to produce movies and tv shows that sell, and what sells and what doesn't sell changes all the time.

Of course passion projects are a different thing, and I know that IC is a passion project for you, and there is nothing wrong with that, but if there isn't a market for these projects, it's not a very wise business decision to invest money in them.

I know a couple of guys, one a director and the other a producer, they are fairly succesfull and have a decent track record behind them, but they both still have a "dream project" that they one day would like to do, but they know that they are very unmarketable projects and they are not in a position yet where they would be able to finance them, so they keep working on projects that are more suitable for today's market and hope that they can someday direct or produce their dream project.

I'm too stubborn NOT to complete the 40 minute version of IC2. And, I'm hammering away at the script for IC3. There will be plenty for die hard sci-fi fans to love in the story of IC3.

I respect your passion and drive to complete the 40 minute production.

Is there a way you could finish it without spending ten grand on it?
What is the $10,000 going to be spend on exactly?

I'm getting excellent feedback on e-books from science fiction writers on different boards I'm on with them. They are all saying, go for it. A novel will sell better than short stories. But, even short stories will bring back more money than the investment to write the stories. Every little bit brings me closer to reaching the mark.

Of course writing short stories yourself is basically free, but can you really sell these stories enough where you would see a significant profit?

Stunt coordinators.

I threw away money on a non union stunt coordinator I had to fire before every actress in the production quit. He is the second non union stunt coordinator I had to fire for making the cast's lives miserable.

For IC3, we will be going union. And, I'm bringing in top of the line in the industry. The cast already saw action clips of studio productions of what their new stunt coordinator worked on. And, they are thrilled to have a chance to work with someone of such high caliber. I know this person over ten years and this person wants to help and told me what contracts I will need to make it happen.

Well my opinion on SAG is, if you aren't going to hire some name actors to your production, then I wouldn't really deal with them at all, certainly not just so I could bring in a stunt coordinator who is union.

I would bet that there are plenty of perfectly fine non-union stunt coordinators out there, or those who are SAG but will work on a non-SAG gig anyway.

Of course it should be said that the stunt scenes you see in a movie where this stunt coordinator has worked on is a combination of professional stunt coordinators, fight coreographers, stunt doubles, fight doubles, cinematographers, camera operators, special FX people, editors, sound designers and composers working together to create that scene.

But, IC3 will have to be funded by sources other than me. That is where NATPE comes in.

This is where I get lost. I understand that IC2 is a 22/40 minute pilot you are hoping a network would pick up and produce as a series?
Is IC3 a full length movie you are hoping to sell to a network?

Believe it or not, IC2 is attracting film sales agents. I've been contacted by 2 of them from different countries. One in the UK and one in India. So, things are looking up.

When you say sales agents, these are companies that sell mainly feature films?
Are they interested in selling IC2 even though it's not a full length movie?
 
This is where I get lost. I understand that IC2 is a 22/40 minute pilot you are hoping a network would pick up and produce as a series?
Is IC3 a full length movie you are hoping to sell to a network?

Yes! A 2 hour TV movie.

When you say sales agents, these are companies that sell mainly feature films?
Are they interested in selling IC2 even though it's not a full length movie?

They are on TV professional boards. So, why would they be looking for to sell just feature films?


Well my opinion on SAG is, if you aren't going to hire some name actors to your production, then I wouldn't really deal with them at all, certainly not just so I could bring in a stunt coordinator who is union.

I would bet that there are plenty of perfectly fine non-union stunt coordinators out there, or those who are SAG but will work on a non-SAG gig anyway.

Of course it should be said that the stunt scenes you see in a movie where this stunt coordinator has worked on is a combination of professional stunt coordinators, fight coreographers, stunt doubles, fight doubles, cinematographers, camera operators, special FX people, editors, sound designers and composers working together to create that scene.

You'd bet wrong, especially on the east coast where I'm alone working on science fiction productions. SAG people are the only ones with the right experience for science fiction, especially my friend who has made a career out of it. With the SAG/AFTRA merger more and more of my cast is turning SAG. So, it pays to continue to work with them. Plus, we can get names attached like The Vampire Effect did with Jackie Chan, if we need to go that way.

SAG, British Equity, and Eastern European Union actors are much higher caliber than non union actors names or not. They take their acting more serious and snap at the non union people who hold the production back from their laziness.

We had an actress born and raised in the USA non union who made up her own hours and when the shooting days came, she kept getting lost finding the shooting locations. Our Eastern European Union actress found every location and was always on time. She snapped off at the non union actors with all the excuses who could not find the shooting locations and trying to reinvent the shooting schedule. I ended up firing the American born actress for bad attendance. We had another American born actress who gained 40 pounds from the time we got her costume measurements. She could not fit into her costume and was too sick and over weight to do stunts. As my friend from the Hollywood studios advised me, go union and watch these problems vanish.



Has the writer promised to come on your project as a writer?

He will most likely be WGA so you would have to become a WGA signatory production and you would have to pay him WGA minimum rates, though most writers of that caliber won't work for minimum rates, but of course that is always negotiated.

As I've stated, the investors will have to pay his price if they want him to make the deal go through. The investors I've talked to said his company feels someone like him guarantees success. In that case, they have to pay for that guarantee.
 
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