It does nobody any good if you back off from asking questions. A lot of people who're single and can actually make the move are considering it. So the more questions, the better it will be for them to evaluate the opportunity.
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It does nobody any good if you back off from asking questions. A lot of people who're single and can actually make the move are considering it. So the more questions, the better it will be for them to evaluate the opportunity.
Do you not pay rent?
It may be totally self explanatory to those who know more about the project but I can see where Brian is coming from. Not saying there's anything wrong with it but it's unusual to charge your crew rent. I'm assuming that Nate is/will be director and producer, so I can see why it's a financial godsend to have your crew shelling out just to be there, but I can also understand Brian's raised eyebrow.
Out of curiosity- If the feature gets the go ahead, what crew positions will you all be taking? Same with the sizzle reel?
Yes, Nate is producer/director, but I don't see it as odd, for us to have to pay our own rent. If this were a Hollywood production, with a big budget, then yes, it would be normal for the producer to pay for housing, if it is shot on location.
But this isn't a big Hollywood production. It's a big project, but without a big budget, so Nate is saying that he can afford to pay us a salary, whenever the team has a paid gig (and we won't be taking any unpaid gigs), but that he cannot afford to pay for our housing, so we're on our own for that. When you consider how many people work on production after production, on a completely volunteer basis, I don't think it's crazy for me to have to pay for my own housing.
As for your question about what happens if the feature gets full funding, I'm personally not immediately concerned about that. I'm only committing to stay with the team for phase 1, so I only expect the team to stay committed to me, for phase 1. What happens after that? Who knows. I guess that would depend a lot on the relationships we forge, during phase 1. That works for me.
Agreed. Valid questions are being raised by those of us that were interested in what's going on here.
Also had the same questions. And agree with where Brian and Nick's coming from. Although, I suppose the "ad" is just worded in a strange way. At this point, what CF is saying is that he's just moving to CA to live with Nate and his friends and is going to find a job either way.
It *sounds* like it matters less to him if there's guaranteed work because it's just a move he wants to make.
I'm throwing in that agreeing with Brian doesn't mean I'm trying to discourage anyone, but I get the same exact vibe that Brian described a post or three back. It may be the way the posts have been worded that raised red flags for me.
I talked to Nate yesterday about this. Seems like a perfectly nice guy (Of course, that in and of itself does not mean anything)
But Nick was stressing more an idea for a group of people to be together and to have the expertise to be able to handle big jobs and compete with large agencies for jobs. We didn't really talk much about Deathworld.
To me this idea is more feasible, than even Deathworld. I'm trying constantly to form a team, and it never happens. Everybody has to go and get a job and pay rent. But if you can get 8 guys, all of whom are filmmakers, and not all of them directors, into one spot, you've got a pretty good production company. If you can collectively self finance for three months, on rent and food, with people who're at least partially solvent, you've got a production company like any other, Deathworld or not.
The problem I have is this? What evidence is there that if a group of 8 guys got together without any connections in the industry or advertising world, that work would come along? Even wedding work. We go along in this industry thinking this will happen and that will happen. I see very little evidence of anything happening without somebody knowing somebody. So therein lies my fear.
I admit that what Nick is saying is going through a lot of people's minds. I'm going through the phased financing plans for Deathworld. And to be completely honest, I feel like I don't have the expertise to be of any help in this kind of project. It is too big for someone like me. But I would most definitely like to be part of a production company of other like minded hungry people.
I gotta go. I got a few more questions that are also not answered, regarding ownership, etc. But I don't know if I should ask them in this public forum. But I feel that if such considerations are openly discussed, a lot more people would have less reservations.
I hope I did not step on any toes by making my thoughts public Nate, but I feel like I wanted to discuss them here. After all I ask for advice on many issues regarding whatever it is I'm thinking about regarding filmmaking, on this forum.
Best,
Aveek
But Nick was stressing more an idea for a group of people to be together and to have the expertise to be able to handle big jobs and compete with large agencies for jobs. We didn't really talk much about Deathworld.
To me this idea is more feasible, than even Deathworld. I'm trying constantly to form a team, and it never happens. Everybody has to go and get a job and pay rent. But if you can get 8 guys, all of whom are filmmakers, and not all of them directors, into one spot, you've got a pretty good production company. If you can collectively self finance for three months, on rent and food, with people who're at least partially solvent, you've got a production company like any other, Deathworld or not.
The problem I have is this? What evidence is there that if a group of 8 guys got together without any connections in the industry or advertising world, that work would come along? Even wedding work. We go along in this industry thinking this will happen and that will happen. I see very little evidence of anything happening without somebody knowing somebody. So therein lies my fear.
I admit that what Nick is saying is going through a lot of people's minds. I'm going through the phased financing plans for Deathworld. And to be completely honest, I feel like I don't have the expertise to be of any help in this kind of project. It is too big for someone like me. But I would most definitely like to be part of a production company of other like minded hungry people.
I gotta go. I got a few more questions that are also not answered, regarding ownership, etc. But I don't know if I should ask them in this public forum. But I feel that if such considerations are openly discussed, a lot more people would have less reservations.
I hope I did not step on any toes by making my thoughts public Nate, but I feel like I wanted to discuss them here. After all I ask for advice on many issues regarding whatever it is I'm thinking about regarding filmmaking, on this forum.
Best,
Aveek
I can understand both sides of this enterprise, as well as the healthy skepticism. The one thing I think would be most pertinent is determining what this core group of filmmakers are entitled to IF and WHEN the whole production gets greenlighted. I would hate to think a bigger budget would push some of these guys out in favor of a better-known, industry professional. (That's not to say one of the core couldn't turn out to be a bust, nor that *they* couldn't compete with a pro) I guess what I'm suggesting is to have some sort of legal document which allows *you* to continue (to the financed version or phase~ whatever you want to call it) or some sort of contract buyout if this relationship doesn't flourish as expected. Then again, I guess these are the risks one would have to take?
I can't speak for Nate, but I think it's perfectly okay to ask questions. This is a public forum, after all.
That is (mostly) correct. I want to be closely connected to a group of filmmakers who are willing to take risks, and really throw themselves into a common project. I'm not saying that everyone else on this forum isn't very committed to their projects, already. Take you, for example, Kholi -- obviously, you wouldn't be finishing up a feature, one that's quite ambitious, if you weren't super committed to it.
What I find unique about Nate's project is that one of the most important strategies of the project is that everyone who is joining is very interested in becoming part of a team. That's really the main motivating factor, for myself, and I imagine the same is true for most everybody.
I'm perfectly happy, in Richmond, VA. I've got a good job, I've built a reputation for myself, locally, as a filmmaker, and I've got tons of very talented actors who want to work with me. I'm not making the move to CA just because I want to live in CA. I'm making the move because I want to be associated with this team of filmmakers.
Aveek, to answer your question about work coming along, we do have some connections, to the best of my knowledge. Nate has been conducting phone interviews, with the people he's not able to meet face-to-face, but it's worth noting that the interview is a two-way street. I've had some pretty extensive conversations with him, and I gotta say that I personally feel pretty confident about having him take the position of producer. There is a certain charm and ambition that just doesn't come across in a typed message, like we see on this forum. Already, he has gotten his hands on a Red, using nothing more than his gift of negotiations. And more recently, he got us an excellent deal on this house. If ever there was anybody I've talked to, whom I am willing to put my trust in to go get us some paid jobs, it's this guy.
Cheers!
That is (mostly) correct. I want to be closely connected to a group of filmmakers who are willing to take risks, and really throw themselves into a common project. I'm not saying that everyone else on this forum isn't very committed to their projects, already. Take you, for example, Kholi -- obviously, you wouldn't be finishing up a feature, one that's quite ambitious, if you weren't super committed to it.
What I find unique about Nate's project is that one of the most important strategies of the project is that everyone who is joining is very interested in becoming part of a team. That's really the main motivating factor, for myself, and I imagine the same is true for most everybody.
I'm perfectly happy, in Richmond, VA. I've got a good job, I've built a reputation for myself, locally, as a filmmaker, and I've got tons of very talented actors who want to work with me. I'm not making the move to CA just because I want to live in CA. I'm making the move because I want to be associated with this team of filmmakers.
Aveek, to answer your question about work coming along, we do have some connections, to the best of my knowledge. Nate has been conducting phone interviews, with the people he's not able to meet face-to-face, but it's worth noting that the interview is a two-way street. I've had some pretty extensive conversations with him, and I gotta say that I personally feel pretty confident about having him take the position of producer. There is a certain charm and ambition that just doesn't come across in a typed message, like we see on this forum. Already, he has gotten his hands on a Red, using nothing more than his gift of negotiations. And more recently, he got us an excellent deal on this house. If ever there was anybody I've talked to, whom I am willing to put my trust in to go get us some paid jobs, it's this guy.
Cheers!
This thread is a GOOD thing. Ask more questions, particularly DirectoRick.
Nate your coming off a bit defensive, and thats understandable but its still feels negative.
From talking with Nate he is perfectly willing to answer the hard questions.
Here are a few hard questions:
What makes you, Nate, think you can pull this off?
Have you secured the option to the script?
Do you have some PROOF that Harry Harrison is your bud?
How will you pay the rent in February? March?
That said,
If I was in a different life situation, Id already be there. Risks and all, seriously.. .
$1400 move in gets you.
All of that is guaranteed, at least for two months, the OPPORTUNITIES, no guarantees, from this are:
Nate your coming off a bit defensive, and thats understandable but its still feels negative.
From talking with Nate he is perfectly willing to answer the hard questions.
Here are a few hard questions:
What makes you, Nate, think you can pull this off?
Have you secured the option to the script?
Do you have some PROOF that Harry Harrison is your bud?
How will you pay the rent in February? March?
That said,
If I was in a different life situation, Id already be there. Risks and all, seriously.. .
$1400 move in gets you.
- 1st and last months rent paid.
- captured access to other film makers
- hands on access to some pretty cool toys (RED camera, rigging gear etc)
- access to round the clock LIVE IN technical support
- High Bandwidth internet connection
- All the electricity you can eat
- Your own bathroom
- All the water you can drink \swim in.
- Beautiful surroundings
All of that is guaranteed, at least for two months, the OPPORTUNITIES, no guarantees, from this are:
- You're part of the start up of a production company, you may be able to work in film related activities 100% of the time, instead of having a "day job"
- You're working on a scifi technology proof\teaser that may put your work in front of some influential eyes.
- Expanding your personal network with industry people.
- Part ownership in a feature film, with solid demographics and proven market
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Well-stated, wheat!
Definitely.
I can imagine this being a pretty weighty factor for you and for many. Not having an actual team or a small, go-to community when it comes to producing content makes things a lot harder indeed. I'm not sure how different the community is where you'll be going, but if it's LA there are at least a few people you could get to come around and throw in to see a project through.
In addition to what you said about finishing up the feature (ambitious as it is), I wouldn't have done it had I not known there were five or six people who would walk right beside me to get it done, hell or high water.
On the flipside of that, my friend from Georgia--I had him come out last year to come and work on a big job and he's hooked, now flies out for a few months at a time to work with me in Camera Department--remarked that it's just a completely different vibe here. The creativity flows heavily if you're in the right group and everyone wants to do something.
We sit around my friends pool once to thrice a week just hashing ideas out and brainstorming. Back home in GA I never got that, and I probably still wouldn't if I were there.
Not to speak up for Brian, but I'm sure he's the same as I and wishes you the best in your endeavor, and hope you get to find what you're looking for, man.
That sounds awesome. That's definitely something I don't have, where I am now.
Thanks for the well-wishes. Cheers.
Do you not pay rent?
Actually I'm a landlord myself.
And I tell tenants what the deposits are, the cleaning fees, and what you get for what you pay. That stuff has to be crystal clear if you want to avoid problems. And yet the ad has this parsed language, every word seems to be teased and oh so carefully chosen. The ad says "Move in cost is only $1,400" and THEN you pay $700 a month rent. The $1400 sounds like the buy in for the pay to play -- if it was a first and last month's rent presumably it'd say that. But instead we get this ambiguous language.
A lot of red flags here. That's why there so much skepticism.
Actually I'm a landlord myself.
The ad says "Move in cost is only $1,400" and THEN you pay $700 a month rent. The $1400 sounds like the buy in for the pay to play -- if it was a first and last month's rent presumably it'd say that. But instead we get this ambiguous language.
A lot of red flags here. That's why there so much skepticism.
Oh, ok. I see where you're coming from, then. If it's poorly-worded, perhaps that's because Nate is not the landlord, and he is not advertising a property for rent. $1,400 is for a deposit, and first-month's rent. That money doesn't go to Nate, but to the owner of the property. After the first month, then we continue to pay rent. There. All cleared up?
Absolutely agreed, thanks trueindie. Ask away Rik. I really am open to questions.
A: You do your part to help create an organization that will create reels for all members, reels good enough for entry into pro work, of a caliber that none of us could produce solo. It's a synergy effect, where everyone benefits, not just me. Anyone joining this project is going to walk away with an epic reel produced in conjunction with a trained team. See if you can get that included in rent where you live.
If we do get investment, (I assume that's what you mean by a truckload of money), that will go towards training and equipping the entire team so we can dial in the final look of the feature to be produced in phase 2. It would be a real waste of money if I fired the whole team I just trained for 10 months, I'm curious why you think I'd shoot myself in the foot and turn on my friends at first opportunity. What is it that make your thoughts turn in that direction? Other people may be like that, but I'm not, and that will become obvious over time.
It is interesting that the cost of living could be considered a pay to play offer but really I just think the confusion has been handled effectively here already.
Really, I see here that we are already in a very good position, there are limited spots open and not everyone wants to or can be involved for various reasons.
That being said, we aren't looking for approval or permission to do this project. Opinions are always valuable and I like that it is very open here and there is no need for defensive posture.
If I were to call this a one month workshop to train camera moves and green screening technique using a Red Epic for $3000 then I would probably fill the house with students and make a profit from the course. (Not something I am interested in, or going to do.) That would be Pay to Play.
That would be different. This is a team forming to compete in business, all of us that have had businesses in the past or made significant contributions cinematically know that there are costs to any project.One reason many fail to have their own business is they think with "Job" where you work for a contracted wage and that is the limit to the risk.
A business will take all of your time and creative energy up front and after (Statistically) years of effort begins income.
This is like that and those already here on the forum who have gleaned some success already know this. It is just a more ideal viewpoint for a team member or business person to maintain in this world of no guarantees.
Probably, nearly everyone here is in agreement about Pay to Play. People are making money from others trying to get somewhere. I for one never get involved in them and agree that they should be attacked and or ignored, and am glad that that is not what is going on here.
What I am confident in is that our team will improve with each passing month of work and that will be helpful for us as a team and individually to compete.
Really, I see here that we are already in a very good position, there are limited spots open and not everyone wants to or can be involved for various reasons.
That being said, we aren't looking for approval or permission to do this project. Opinions are always valuable and I like that it is very open here and there is no need for defensive posture.
If I were to call this a one month workshop to train camera moves and green screening technique using a Red Epic for $3000 then I would probably fill the house with students and make a profit from the course. (Not something I am interested in, or going to do.) That would be Pay to Play.
That would be different. This is a team forming to compete in business, all of us that have had businesses in the past or made significant contributions cinematically know that there are costs to any project.One reason many fail to have their own business is they think with "Job" where you work for a contracted wage and that is the limit to the risk.
A business will take all of your time and creative energy up front and after (Statistically) years of effort begins income.
This is like that and those already here on the forum who have gleaned some success already know this. It is just a more ideal viewpoint for a team member or business person to maintain in this world of no guarantees.
Probably, nearly everyone here is in agreement about Pay to Play. People are making money from others trying to get somewhere. I for one never get involved in them and agree that they should be attacked and or ignored, and am glad that that is not what is going on here.
What I am confident in is that our team will improve with each passing month of work and that will be helpful for us as a team and individually to compete.
I tried to believe me, but my wife is so awesome I could only sustain my mid life crisis for a day. I guess I need a lesson from Obmama on successfully sustaining a crisis footing.