Higgs Boson Found?

Keep in mind these are the same people who boldly proclaimed to have found a particle that moved faster than the speed of light. And people got all excited about that. Oops.

Science doesn't work so fast. MAYBE they found the Higgs boson. Maybe not. Takes time to be sure, and you need a lot more than just one study to make such claims.

Pulp-science (the stuff you see publicized in daily news) is always looking for the next big story. Real science is, by nature, extremely skeptical, and the peer-review process takes forever. Keep in mind that two of the most solid theories in the history of all science, Einstein's theory of relativity, and Darwin's theory of natural selection, were both highly controversial initially, and took a long time to be accepted.

So, yeah, this is an interesting story, and perhaps it'll pan out to be a solid theory. But in the scientific community, that'll take some time.

Shouldn't stop US from making movies about it, though! :D
 
Cracker Funk said:
Shouldn't stop US from making movies about it, though! :D
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Yes! Or, writing books (Dan Brown). As you know, the ancient Indus Valley folks and the Vatican came up with the scientific theories of the God Particle and the Big Bang respectively. Er...something like that? :weird:
 
“The Higgs Boson walks into a church. The priest, says, "I'm sorry, but we don't allow Higgs Bosons in this church."

The Higgs Boson replied, "But, without me, how can you have mass?"”
 
higg-boson-joke.jpg
 
Cracker Funk said:
Keep in mind these are the same people who boldly proclaimed to have found a particle that moved faster than the speed of light. And people got all excited about that. Oops.
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urgh. They had data that indicated that. They released the data for peer review and independent testing. The PRESS reported it as fact. They blew it out of proportion. The SCIENCE was good. The reporting was not.

Now, in this case, they have found evidence as a particle that exists at the energy level predicted for Higgs boson. After years of trial and elimination at other energy levels. No, they cannot state that this is the particle that they were looking for. It's just a particle that no one had seen, existing where the standard model predicted the Higgs bosun to be. There are various scientists refuting and supporting the findings. And, hey it's ages before they can actually DO anything with it. But either way, this is pretty big and exciting news!

Also: the term "God Particle" was created by a book publisher that didn't want to print the name "goddamn particle", thus nicknamed because it was so goddamn hard to find. This has nothing to do with god or the existence of such. The author of said book hated the change, because it would detract from the science and stir up controversy. The publisher liked it because it stirred up controversy and sold books. Further use of it just makes me want to slap people.

Oh, and some other cool science from last week: http://www.nature.com/news/dark-matter-s-tendrils-revealed-1.10951
 
JoshL said:
urgh. They had data that indicated that. They released the data for peer review and independent testing. The PRESS reported it as fact. They blew it out of proportion. The SCIENCE was good. The reporting was not.
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I don't think that's entirely true. Yeah, they published a proper paper for peer-review. But they also were pretty bold in their communications with the press. I think they definitely helped fuel the fire, and in the end it was enough for that one dude to get fired. If anyone is suspicious that they're crying wolf, it's their own fault.

Yes, this Higgs boson study is different, since the other announcement came out of left-field and was expected by nobody (including CERN). Nevertheless, it's too early to think our best physicists are anywhere near answering this question.
 
You know why CERN exists in Europe??? It's because the US has gone mad. Everything used to be in the US. People used to come from far and wide to the US if they wanted to learn something. Then the US went mad and decided it doesn't like science anymore, and politics in the US decided that creationism is a reasonable argument (1 book vs centuries of research and theories and man hours of books and experiments).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Usaao1NU_Y

"The science WILL get discovered." America needs to become sane again.

Edit: sorry, I was just ranting
 
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Says Neil deGrasse Tyson, in reference to WWII: "Pysics basically ended the war".

:lol::lol::lol:!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't want to start a political debate, but history says otherwise. Japan was defeated. By US troops. And US industry. They offered surrender before we dropped the bomb.

Physics did something. But the war was already over. Gee, thanks physics!

At least he got one thing right -- in this day and age, scientific innovation usually comes in the interest of military or corporate gain. As of now, the hadron collider doesn't seem to offer benefit to either, so...

You can have it, Europe. We don't want it! :P
 
Cracker Funk said:
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At least he got one thing right -- in this day and age, scientific innovation usually comes in the interest of military or corporate gain. As of now, the hadron collider doesn't seem to offer benefit to either, so...

You can have it, Europe. We don't want it! :P
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We already have it. :P
Newton, Van Leeuwenhoek, Einstein, Copernicus, Galileo, the inventor of television, the steamengine, Darwin, Von Braun (the rocketscientist), Higgs (? or to be correct: the Belgians Robert Brout & François Englert predicted it before Higgs did) etc... all fundaments of science came/come from Europe. :P

The US made the bomb first. (The Germans were defeated just in time, otherwise the Japanese would have a bomb in June 1945... the German submarine with nucleair material surrendered half May.)
That's military stuff indeed...

While US companies like Apple are fighting over patents about 'round corners' 'zero-length-swipes' and some US people are concerned that science will proof religion wrong (I think that this fear is the real reason religious people are bashing science; it may take away their power), Europe will still look ahead.
Earlier this year scientists at Technical University Delft (in The Netherlands; I studied there for 2 year before switching to artschool) found something that looked like a quatumcomputer. It still needs to be checked and reproduced, but that would be another breakthrough.

Maybe the key difference in approach is fear vs curiousity?

Anyway, I think we are very lucky if we ever see technology that uses these discoveries in a practical way (without killing people).
 
Cracker Funk said:
I don't think that's entirely true. Yeah, they published a proper paper for peer-review. But they also were pretty bold in their communications with the press. I think they definitely helped fuel the fire, and in the end it was enough for that one dude to get fired. If anyone is suspicious that they're crying wolf, it's their own fault.

Yes, this Higgs boson study is different, since the other announcement came out of left-field and was expected by nobody (including CERN). Nevertheless, it's too early to think our best physicists are anywhere near answering this question.
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Yeah, I don't think I can agree with that statement at all. Let's look at what was actually said:
http://press.web.cern.ch/press/pressreleases/releases2011/pr19.11e.html
“When an experiment finds an apparently unbelievable result and can find no artefact of the measurement to account for it, it’s normal procedure to invite broader scrutiny, and this is exactly what the OPERA collaboration is doing, it’s good scientific practice,” said CERN Research Director Sergio Bertolucci. “If this measurement is confirmed, it might change our view of physics, but we need to be sure that there are no other, more mundane, explanations. That will require independent measurements.”
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That the guy lost his job over this is a TRAVESTY, not proof that they were wrong in communicating openly. (Incidentally, that was Antonio Ereditato who ran OPERA. He worked for INFN, not CERN) It sends the message that sharing results is wrong, and that saying anything before you are absolutely sure is dangerous to your career. But here's the thing about science: no one is ever absolutely sure. That's the point. You observe data, you try to interpret what you see, you put it out there so other intelligent people can come up with alternatives that you didn't think of (like the article that Aspiring Mogul linked). You work together, globally, not just in your own isolated labs.

Sorry for getting all rant-y, but this just gets my goat. Science is a delicate balance between scepticism and open-mindedness. You have to question everything even (and especially) what you think you know. There's too much dogmatic pseudo-science out there these days, or at least in the press. You'd think it was a religion now (and terms like "god particle" certainly don't help).

But on the other hand, there's some awesome stuff being done these days, and it's an exciting time to geek out about the possibilities!
 
WalterB said:
We already have it. :P
Newton, Van Leeuwenhoek, Einstein, Copernicus, Galileo, the inventor of television, the steamengine, Darwin, Von Braun (the rocketscientist), Higgs (? or to be correct: the Belgians Robert Brout & François Englert predicted it before Higgs did) etc... all fundaments of science came/come from Europe. :P
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Yeah, well we invented Rock & Roll, and the art of cinema. You're welcome! ;)
 
JoshL said:
Science is a delicate balance between scepticism and open-mindedness.
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Well said. :yes:

JoshL said:
There's too much dogmatic pseudo-science out there these days, or at least in the press.
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I blame the History Channel, and Discovery, and all those other crappy networks. Seriously. They're dumbing-down America.

JoshL said:
But on the other hand, there's some awesome stuff being done these days, and it's an exciting time to geek out about the possibilities!
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No doubt! We're basically on the cusp of finally being in THE FUTURE! :)
 
Cracker Funk said:
I blame the History Channel, and Discovery, and all those other crappy networks. Seriously. They're dumbing-down America.
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Hey, now.
That's almost my argument.

I gather you believe the spoon feeding of moronic pablum retards the growth of the American mentalities.

Whereas, I believe Americans are already dumb and the broadcasting programmers are just pandering... I mean providing what their (dumb) consumers want.

You say "Chicken!"
And I say "Egg!"

:lol: :cheers: :lol:
 
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