• Wondering which camera, gear, computer, or software to buy? Ask in our Gear Guide.

Your screenplay is wrong. Here's why.

And for any of you history trivia buffs out there the following is sure to be less than enlightening after hearing/reading about Hitler being spoke of as humanity's ultimate evil doer:

To the rest of you, enjoy:
http://www.google.com/#q=who+killed+more+hitler+or+stalin

Hitler takes home silver. ;)


BONUS: Anyone care to know which American President's actions and policies directly led to the deaths of the most Americans?

Hint - he is very well loved. Oh, the irony.
 
Last edited:
Okay, I'll leave this as my final post for this thread as it has completely gone off the rails.

You really have no clue what you're talking about, do you?

I struggle to imagine what sort of crap you'd turn out.

Your world view is terrifying. This is how art gets piled and burned. .


...Caidh Mor: Your posts were mostly personal slams at me. Many cry foul when this happens ...but I'm not one of those people. You are free to express your opinion however way you choose.

The original argument was regarding someone wanting to make an "opposite Braveheart" movie from Longshanks' point of view. My statement was that if you do this with the intent of "glorifying" Longshanks ...then you are working for the wrong side. Same goes for Hitler, Nero, Mengele, Idi Amin, Dahmer, Manson and many others.

My argument is that if you spin these people as "misunderstood" or focus on the "lighter side" of what they have done to this world, then again, you're working for the wrong side.

I stand by this: If you make a movie glorifying Adolf Hitler, then you are giving the people who would simply love to fire up the ovens for another round everything they want. You're working for them. You make a movie that is sympathetic to child molesters ...you're giving child molesters everything they want ...and somewhere down the road a child will pay the price for your cinemagraphic goals. That's just the way things work in life and I have 4500 years of mankind's history to back that statement up.

My view on this does not result in "burning books and the piling up of art". If you look at history, my friend, you will find that the evil people you seek to celebrate, or point out their socially-redeeming qualities are the one's who get the the fires burning.

Movies turn things however they want. Movies often white-wash the more horrific acts of their heroes (ie The Patriot) and gloss past any redeeming values that their antagonists may have had. The world is a very grey place, Birdman, and a lot of good story comes from that.

...So click away on that keyboard, my friend. Get on out there and let the world know how down to earth Nero was! Live inbetween. Thrive on that "Grey Area". ...The world will be a much better place when you have completed your task.


Making a villain a very evil guy who clearly deserves punishment and is punished by the end of the movie by a completely good guy,what can be more boring?


Then baolium, I suggest you also click away on your keyboard and give the world someone truly evil that we can all grow to love. You'll make lots of money. You'll have the praise of many. You will be celebrated by those who think the same as you. Your character might even be emulated by someone in real life? What greater honor could there be?

And best of all, ...it won't be "boring" like those movies dealing with hope, sacrifice and triumph over evil.

Birdman, I really want to tear every statement you said apart, but my energy belongs elsewhere.

...Chimp, you feel obligated to disagree with anything I type no matter if it's valid or not. ...so you are probably better off not wasting your time.

BONUS: Anyone care to know which American President's actions and policies directly led to the deaths of the most Americans? Hint - he is very well loved. Oh, the irony.

...Ray, I would guess, Andrew Jackson? ...but that would have been Native Americans if that's what you meant? And if this is the man you were looking for, then my all means make that movie. Someone cloaked under the veil of history with documented proof otherwise is perfect fodder for a great movie. However, do the same to Jesus Christ (where there is nothing to the contrary) and you end up working for the wrong side. ...but then again, lots of people would go to see it ...you'd make lots of money! ...people of similar thinking will celebrate your efforts! ...you'll have a following of like minded people! ...and the world will be what kind of place after the credits roll?

-Birdman
 
Last edited:

sfoster

Staff Member
Moderator
You make a movie that is sympathetic to child molesters ...you're giving child molesters everything they want ...and somewhere down the road a child will pay the price for your cinemagraphic goals.

Never knew i'd get him to molest this kid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIEt_zih_7w
 
Never knew i'd get him to molest this kid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVDg8fVC4EQ

...Choose your destiny.


Thread needs to be nuked from orbit. It's the only way to be sure..

....I can't help but enjoy the irony. We have posts in this thread regarding book burning and art distraction and what leads up to this type of thinking. Now we have a poster advocating the destruction of this same thread. So tell me, Zensteve ... Are there any books you'd like to toss onto the fire along with this thread? ...movies? ...art? ...people? ...maybe me???

-Birdman
 
wiki Godwin's Law: there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress

I'd probably advise you to wiki Godwin's Law to understand why it was inappropriate here.
 
I'd probably advise you to wiki Godwin's Law to understand why it was inappropriate here.

...Perhaps maybe YOU should instead?

"There are many corollaries to Godwin's law, some considered more canonical (by being adopted by Godwin himself)[3] than others.[1] For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress.[7] This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's law. It is considered poor form to raise such a comparison arbitrarily with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized corollary that any such ulterior-motive invocation of Godwin's law will be unsuccessful.[8]

Godwin's law applies especially to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Nazis – often referred to as "playing the Hitler card". The law and its corollaries would not apply to discussions covering known mainstays of Nazi Germany such as genocide, eugenics, or racial superiority, nor, more debatably, to a discussion of other totalitarian regimes or ideologies, if that was the explicit topic of conversation, since a Nazi comparison in those circumstances may be appropriate, in effect committing the fallacist's fallacy. Whether it applies to humorous use or references to oneself is open to interpretation, since this would not be a fallacious attack against a debate opponent."


....so really, like the many totalitarian regimes, you only seek to silence opposition to your way of thinking.

-Bitdman
 
Last edited:
Birdman, you have a point, I'll agree with you on this one. I'll stop being so disagreeable.

Society should not try to understand what made a person do what they did or their history, because in no way could it result in people understanding why these things happen which could lead to those problems being fixed and not having to have discussions about it, it's just that they're pure evil and without humanity, and media should portray them as monsters. Although what really matters in this discussion is that people are evil, pure and simple, and we should go back to the good ol' days and just point fingers at people who are considered bad guys. I liked your earlier examples, Manson, Nero, and Dahmer. It's not like Manson's killing sprees could happened due to his father that abandoned him, his mother was a raging drunk, he had almost no positive influence in his life, and that he was humiliated by teachers and classmates (and many authority figures) throughout his early life, he just woke up one day and decided to kill people. We shouldn't try to understand it, we should just point a finger at the bad guy. Nero was just evil... I agree... in no way was it because he was raised by a father who committed treason, adultery, and incest, and a mother who killed two husbands, NO, he was just evil. And if we were to not ignore those facts, it would obviously be glorification. Oh, and Dahmer. That guy was just evil, the fact that his dysfunctional parents that never paid attention to him or really cared that much for him, had an interest in death that was never addressed, became an alcoholic as a teen, and was lonely almost his whole life was is NO way the reason he did what he did, he was just born a bad guy. Even if he wasn't, we should ignore the facts and point a finger at him. Oh, and how about we just completely skip over Mara's post. Zensteve's joke about 'nuking this thread out of orbit' would be way out of line, because we know that if that did happen, art would be burned because one heated thread on the internet was deleted. Hell, due to any possible deletion of this thread, it could turn into Fahrenheit 451, heck, maybe 1984!
 
...Perhaps maybe YOU should instead?

"There are many corollaries to Godwin's law, some considered more canonical (by being adopted by Godwin himself)[3] than others.[1] For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress.[7] This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's law. It is considered poor form to raise such a comparison arbitrarily with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized corollary that any such ulterior-motive invocation of Godwin's law will be unsuccessful.[8]

Godwin's law applies especially to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Nazis – often referred to as "playing the Hitler card". The law and its corollaries would not apply to discussions covering known mainstays of Nazi Germany such as genocide, eugenics, or racial superiority, nor, more debatably, to a discussion of other totalitarian regimes or ideologies, if that was the explicit topic of conversation, since a Nazi comparison in those circumstances may be appropriate, in effect committing the fallacist's fallacy. Whether it applies to humorous use or references to oneself is open to interpretation, since this would not be a fallacious attack against a debate opponent."


....so really, like the many totalitarian regimes, you only seek to silence opposition to your way of thinking.

-Bitdman

Er... Birdman, I think you should chill out a little. Read my post, and the one I was replying to. And my earlier post.

You're apparently so indignant that you're swinging out wildly, and even attacking people like me who are supporting you against specious accusations of losing the argument. The bold section about inappropriate invocations of Godwin's Law you quote is exactly what i was referring to when I said Guerilla should wiki it to find out why its use is inappropriate here.

Get any angrier and I may have to pen a biopic. The Birdman Cometh :)
 
It's not like Manson's killing sprees could happened due to his father that abandoned him, his mother was a raging drunk, he had almost no positive influence in his life, and that he was humiliated by teachers and classmates (and many authority figures) throughout his early life, he just woke up one day and decided to kill people.

Manson and his crew were responsible for the murders of 9 people. They stabbed to death an 8th month pregnant woman (Sharon Tate). She was stabbed 16 times. Another woman was eviscerated and killed. The others slaughtered without mercy.

""In October 1951, on a psychiatrist's recommendation, Manson was transferred to Natural Bridge Honor Camp, a minimum security institution. Less than a month before a scheduled February 1952 parole hearing, he "took a razor blade and held it against another boy's throat while Manson sodomized him."[5]:137–146""

There has already been a film about Manson. It documented his antics and highlighted parts of his past. It in no way "glorified" him or in any way was sympathetic to his cause. That's fine.

You want to make a NEW FILM and show the lighter side of Charlie ...Go right ahead.

You want to show how poor ol' Charlie is misunderstood? ...Go right ahead.

You want point out some of the positives about Charlie that people just don't seem to recognize? ...Go right ahead.

You want to "raise awareness" about how life can be real tough growing up and have Charlie be your role model ...Go right ahead.

But remember this, Chimp, ...there are MILLIONS of people who have had horrible upbringings. Many have suffered child abuse, neglect, bullying, parental abandonment and a score of other bad circumstances in their lives. However, they don't organize "murder squads" and slaughter pregnant women as a result.

-Birdman
 
Er... Birdman, I think you should chill out a little. Read my post, and the one I was replying to. And my earlier post.

You're apparently so indignant that you're swinging out wildly, and even attacking people like me who are supporting you against specious accusations of losing the argument. The bold section about inappropriate invocations of Godwin's Law you quote is exactly what i was referring to when I said Guerilla should wiki it to find out why its use is inappropriate here.

Get any angrier and I may have to pen a biopic. The Birdman Cometh :)

I am wrong! ...I guess it's so few who have posted anything opposite of what the main stream is that I misread your post.

My apologies.

-Birdman
 
You want to "raise awareness" about how life can be real tough growing up and have Charlie be your role model ...Go right ahead.

I was going to engage in argument, but this statement alone helped me remember who I'm arguing with.

Don't worry, I'm done responding to you.
 
I was going to engage in argument, but this statement alone helped me remember who I'm arguing with.

Don't worry, I'm done responding to you.


Chimpy, here are two options for "raising awareness" on bad upbringings:

(1) Charlie Manson.

(2) Any of these guys..


...Choose your destiny!

-Birdman

P.S. Hope I didn't come in on your "Blind Side".
 
Last edited:

sfoster

Staff Member
Moderator
Hitler%2Bwhat%2Babout%2Bthe%2Bgood%2Bthings%2Bvolkswagen.jpg
 
Top