I have watched a ton of movies/TV and one thing really made an impression on me. That is that almost everything is out of the usual in films. Every scene in order to stay interesting to the viewer is made to be unusual in some fashion. That is what I do when I try to write. I think to my self what can I do that is unusual that would be interesting. What is your thoughts.
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I don't really know what you mean by unusual, but I think that I would disagree. This is what (I think) people want from films:
1.) To be able to recognise their lives in the events or the characters.
2.) For these mirrored events to be played out to their logical extreme (ie much further than they are in normal people's lives).
3.) For these mirrored events to be carried out by extremely attractive people.
For example taken the Jason Bourne films. Sure none of us have ever had their identity and memory stolen by the government, or whatever the plot exactly is, but the character's feeling of isolation and betrayal is common to everyone. Being screwed over by your boss is another one. Point One: Check.
Despite the fact that most people have been treated badly by authority figures, very few of us have had to trapse all over the world in order to find out the truth or shake these people off (if they're trying to kill you). Point Two: Check.
Very few of us look like Matt Damon. Point Three: Check.
1.) To be able to recognise their lives in the events or the characters.
2.) For these mirrored events to be played out to their logical extreme (ie much further than they are in normal people's lives).
3.) For these mirrored events to be carried out by extremely attractive people.
For example taken the Jason Bourne films. Sure none of us have ever had their identity and memory stolen by the government, or whatever the plot exactly is, but the character's feeling of isolation and betrayal is common to everyone. Being screwed over by your boss is another one. Point One: Check.
Despite the fact that most people have been treated badly by authority figures, very few of us have had to trapse all over the world in order to find out the truth or shake these people off (if they're trying to kill you). Point Two: Check.
Very few of us look like Matt Damon. Point Three: Check.
The unusual , I think that maybe people want to escape from the normal.
If it is too normal it becomes boring. You need a lot of unusual and extremes to keep it interesting. Nickclapper I agree on your points you listed. But still think unusual is the way to go it is used in almost every movie and tv show.
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I think on one level the chain reaction of fresh character and conflict (Which might be seen as "unusual") is what ideally creates good story. Conflict reveals character by way of the character’s reaction to the conflict, so when the conflict becomes greater and greater (ever increasing or perhaps seen as “unusual”) then more (and perhaps more unusual) character is reveled. The on going cycle (Chain reaction) ideally perpetuates a good story.
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Personally I don't focus on trying to make my scenes a certain/unusual way. I go with what the story itself needs, if I tried to make things unusual as you put it just to cater to the audience's ADD then I would have to ask myself if my story is really worth telling, or am I just trying to make a few bucks.
I can see what you're saying but one thing I've found in writing is to never worry about the target audience. Write your story, the way you want with what interests you. You can't please everyone anyways so no reason to try very hard.
Although one instance that I can kind of see this from my own writing is a story I'm brainstorming to write as one of my next few scripts. Just the ending though, it ends a certain way with a really messed up scene but I want it to have some impact for the viewer. So I'm still working out exactly how to do it but for me story comes first, not the viewer's expectations.
I can see what you're saying but one thing I've found in writing is to never worry about the target audience. Write your story, the way you want with what interests you. You can't please everyone anyways so no reason to try very hard.
Although one instance that I can kind of see this from my own writing is a story I'm brainstorming to write as one of my next few scripts. Just the ending though, it ends a certain way with a really messed up scene but I want it to have some impact for the viewer. So I'm still working out exactly how to do it but for me story comes first, not the viewer's expectations.
It would seem your movie-watching would have become singular Genre aurientated, without your knowing.
There is no manufactured formula, only the popular of the present and past. Although, as it seems, this would become appealing and preferable due to the apparrant success. I would go as far to say, that I'm not one to pre-empt the style in which my idea will grow, nor how it would be percieved until a substantial passing of time.
Nick, however, makes some splendid points that i wholly agree with. It's a question of taste, of timing, of lifestyle that remains the core. Be it if there is a mass enjoyment of one Genre, is not to say that it's the correct format to explore, simply a given as to it's timing of the watching audience.
There is no manufactured formula, only the popular of the present and past. Although, as it seems, this would become appealing and preferable due to the apparrant success. I would go as far to say, that I'm not one to pre-empt the style in which my idea will grow, nor how it would be percieved until a substantial passing of time.
Nick, however, makes some splendid points that i wholly agree with. It's a question of taste, of timing, of lifestyle that remains the core. Be it if there is a mass enjoyment of one Genre, is not to say that it's the correct format to explore, simply a given as to it's timing of the watching audience.
You can combine Nicks idea with my idea and that gives you a good start. Sure there is no formula or is there but you can take ideas and make your own path. I am just observing what I am seeing in the films and tv I watch. I watch a lot of genres and hundreds of movies. I don't claim to be an expert. I am just saying what I have observed in movies and how I went about writing my first film.
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I completely understand, Rocker. I was simply referring to this quote, which i could have misenterperated your using of "Unusual", taking it to a further extent from normality than perhaps you intended.
Another thing I like to do is write in things that are similar to what has happened in real life that I thought was interesting. This way it brings a more realism to it. For instances things that I thought were funny that happened.
"You can't please everyone anyways so no reason to try very hard."
I can't stop laughing long enough to respond to this.
In the context of writing interesting scenes for the creation of films, I'd say to avoid the above advice.
Maybe just a bumper sticker: Try Less Hard
I can't stop laughing long enough to respond to this.
In the context of writing interesting scenes for the creation of films, I'd say to avoid the above advice.
Maybe just a bumper sticker: Try Less Hard
I believe the quote is unintended. To say that the intention was "Not to try hard" is a miscommunication. More in the regions of to be unique with your motive, and ideas, instead of aiming to meet the "Formula" that would seem to please the masses. You can see from the bulk of Sketch's post, that it's an intelligible insight.
In trying to please everyone, you'll please no-one. Is the more common way to phrase the apparant intentions.
A tongue-tie, rather than a belief.
Although i could be proven wrong, if it was indeed the posters thoughts.
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Paper pretty much nailed it.
My point was to write YOUR story not what you THINK others will love. Of course it has to appeal to others but trying to change your own vision to make it universally liked just for the sake of being "unusual" at least IMO seems like a bad way to write. What may happen is you will write some generic formula flick that may make money, if you're lucky, but won't really say much about your skill as a writer nor tell your own vision.
The "dont try hard" aspect was taken way off on a tangent by Pol. Of course try to write something good just dont try TOO hard. You know when you see a bad comic trying way to hard to make you laugh? Or maybe some guy/girl trying way too hard to impress someone they like. I meant it in that sense. A great example actually is a story told by Kevin Smith on his Evening discs, when he was writing his version of Superman the producer was trying too hard to put what he thought was cool into the script, giant spiders, the fortress of un-solitude with it's polar bear guards. It came off to Smith and probably most of us as absurd ideas. He was doing the same thing, trying to make the story unusual to get the viewers attention.
Maybe I'm just too new to the screenwriting scene but coming from mostly working on shorts and novels and such I am more concerned with writing my stories for what they are instead of trying to change them for some universal appeal by making them extra unusual or interesting outside of the story itself. I don't get the attitude of "lets shock them and put all this extra stuff in there" to me that just seems like selling out your writing and storytelling to make a buck. Which yeah we all want to make money but is it really necessary to compromise your story just to get a few more percent of viewers?
Bottom line for me on this question is why do you write? The money or the story? As I said yeah we want both but which is more important to you is the real question I'm seeing from this. I'd rather write something uniquely interesting and original from my own vision than adapt it to get more audience. Yeah some of my scripts might not sell and I may have to make them myself but personally I'm ok with that if I don't have to "sell out".
My point was to write YOUR story not what you THINK others will love. Of course it has to appeal to others but trying to change your own vision to make it universally liked just for the sake of being "unusual" at least IMO seems like a bad way to write. What may happen is you will write some generic formula flick that may make money, if you're lucky, but won't really say much about your skill as a writer nor tell your own vision.
The "dont try hard" aspect was taken way off on a tangent by Pol. Of course try to write something good just dont try TOO hard. You know when you see a bad comic trying way to hard to make you laugh? Or maybe some guy/girl trying way too hard to impress someone they like. I meant it in that sense. A great example actually is a story told by Kevin Smith on his Evening discs, when he was writing his version of Superman the producer was trying too hard to put what he thought was cool into the script, giant spiders, the fortress of un-solitude with it's polar bear guards. It came off to Smith and probably most of us as absurd ideas. He was doing the same thing, trying to make the story unusual to get the viewers attention.
Maybe I'm just too new to the screenwriting scene but coming from mostly working on shorts and novels and such I am more concerned with writing my stories for what they are instead of trying to change them for some universal appeal by making them extra unusual or interesting outside of the story itself. I don't get the attitude of "lets shock them and put all this extra stuff in there" to me that just seems like selling out your writing and storytelling to make a buck. Which yeah we all want to make money but is it really necessary to compromise your story just to get a few more percent of viewers?
Bottom line for me on this question is why do you write? The money or the story? As I said yeah we want both but which is more important to you is the real question I'm seeing from this. I'd rather write something uniquely interesting and original from my own vision than adapt it to get more audience. Yeah some of my scripts might not sell and I may have to make them myself but personally I'm ok with that if I don't have to "sell out".
What ever works for you. I am not saying to sell out in any means. Just discussing ideas for inspiration. There is many ways to write and make things work. I am just pointing out things you could consider trying if it suits the writing you are doing. I write to do this for fun not for money since I am just starting to make my first short films.
A lot of the stuff I came up with off the top of my head. I have a main outline of what I was going to do then I just improvised most of it. Then later went and made scenes to try to merge my other scenes together and make since of it. I was making a comedy and decided to try to add as many funny things as I could knowing that some of it would not be considered funny but if I did a enough hopefully a lot of it would be found funny by others too. Of course I edited it down and got rid of things that I thought did not work.
I stumbed apon the idea of doing something unusual when I did a scene and it did not work out. I later thought what if I do it differently and that would make it much better. I did it and I think it really added to the comedy. In this scene it shows me wake up and get out of bed which is kinda boring but instead of just that I added that I had a guitar in bed with me. Then that made it funny or at minimum amusing. Then I added the whole idea of carrying the guitar where ever I go. Just for the fun of it. So there are other funny scenes where the guitar is in scenes where it should not be. But it is all fun. So this is one instance where I did something unusual for the fun of it. There were many more. My plan for this short from the get go was to try to take things to the extremes. I wanted to have some fun with it mainly because with jobs you have to play by the rules. Well I had no boss telling me I had to do it his way. So I did it my way.
My intial idea for my first short film was to create a simple concept and then go ahead and come up with skits that went with that concept. Then stitch those skits together into a short film. For instance the movie crank was all based on the idea of a guy that needs to keep his self alive by keeping a adrenaline rush in order to kill the guy that poisoned him.
So make a up a simple idea of what the main concept of the film is and then make skits and then tie it together into a film. I also thought about a simple 3 arc for the story and arranged the short to follow the logical story arc. But when I first started I totally did not even think of the arc formally until later. So I was totally not really folling a formula until I decided it needed some structure.
A lot of the stuff I came up with off the top of my head. I have a main outline of what I was going to do then I just improvised most of it. Then later went and made scenes to try to merge my other scenes together and make since of it. I was making a comedy and decided to try to add as many funny things as I could knowing that some of it would not be considered funny but if I did a enough hopefully a lot of it would be found funny by others too. Of course I edited it down and got rid of things that I thought did not work.
I stumbed apon the idea of doing something unusual when I did a scene and it did not work out. I later thought what if I do it differently and that would make it much better. I did it and I think it really added to the comedy. In this scene it shows me wake up and get out of bed which is kinda boring but instead of just that I added that I had a guitar in bed with me. Then that made it funny or at minimum amusing. Then I added the whole idea of carrying the guitar where ever I go. Just for the fun of it. So there are other funny scenes where the guitar is in scenes where it should not be. But it is all fun. So this is one instance where I did something unusual for the fun of it. There were many more. My plan for this short from the get go was to try to take things to the extremes. I wanted to have some fun with it mainly because with jobs you have to play by the rules. Well I had no boss telling me I had to do it his way. So I did it my way.
My intial idea for my first short film was to create a simple concept and then go ahead and come up with skits that went with that concept. Then stitch those skits together into a short film. For instance the movie crank was all based on the idea of a guy that needs to keep his self alive by keeping a adrenaline rush in order to kill the guy that poisoned him.
So make a up a simple idea of what the main concept of the film is and then make skits and then tie it together into a film. I also thought about a simple 3 arc for the story and arranged the short to follow the logical story arc. But when I first started I totally did not even think of the arc formally until later. So I was totally not really folling a formula until I decided it needed some structure.
Yeah I wasn't trying to tell you how to write or anything just giving a warning of sorts to avoid going overboard. It was this sentence in your first post that inspired my posts, "Every scene in order to stay interesting to the viewer is made to be unusual in some fashion." The whole "every scene" aspect of your point. If you watch movies, at least IMO, that simply isn't true, there are always normal scenes in films otherwise nobody would really be able to relate to characters.
Write however you like, whatever is your style, just be careful about how far you take the unusual thing is all I'm saying. Don't want to end up with giant spiders fighting superhero's riding polar bears in times square
Unless of course thats what your movies about lol
Write however you like, whatever is your style, just be careful about how far you take the unusual thing is all I'm saying. Don't want to end up with giant spiders fighting superhero's riding polar bears in times square
Unless of course thats what your movies about lolAll right, I'll try and make sense of this jumbled mess of a thread:
"Of course it has to appeal to others but trying to change your own vision to make it universally liked just for the sake of being "unusual" at least IMO seems like a bad way to write. What may happen is you will write some generic formula flick..."
This is dischordant reasoning. Suddenly the terms "unusual" and "generic" are meant to be taken as synonymous. How can "unusual" and "generic" be the same thing, when they are nearly diametrically opposed concepts?
There is usual, and there is unusual. They are opposites. Trying to argue that one leads to the other or one implies the other is borderline schizophrenic. At a minimum it's an abuse of the language.
If your "vision" is generic, usual, boring stuff then good luck my friend. You're going to need it.
Just because you had a "vision" doesn't mean anyone else will give a damn about it. Particularly if it's "the usual" and of no exceptionality. Does anyone go to the cinema to see regular people living their regular lives? Who does that? And for God's sake why? You could just go out in public, or take a walk down the street. No need to purchase a ticket.
But hey, there's a new school of videography out there where you point a consumer camcorder at your friends and it's allegedly magical.
"Of course it has to appeal to others but trying to change your own vision to make it universally liked just for the sake of being "unusual" at least IMO seems like a bad way to write. What may happen is you will write some generic formula flick..."
This is dischordant reasoning. Suddenly the terms "unusual" and "generic" are meant to be taken as synonymous. How can "unusual" and "generic" be the same thing, when they are nearly diametrically opposed concepts?
There is usual, and there is unusual. They are opposites. Trying to argue that one leads to the other or one implies the other is borderline schizophrenic. At a minimum it's an abuse of the language.
If your "vision" is generic, usual, boring stuff then good luck my friend. You're going to need it.
Just because you had a "vision" doesn't mean anyone else will give a damn about it. Particularly if it's "the usual" and of no exceptionality. Does anyone go to the cinema to see regular people living their regular lives? Who does that? And for God's sake why? You could just go out in public, or take a walk down the street. No need to purchase a ticket.
But hey, there's a new school of videography out there where you point a consumer camcorder at your friends and it's allegedly magical.
Infact, it isn't.
The two concepts reside in different contexts.
The "Unusual", referring to a style employed within Created Entertainment, which is an illusion. Fiction. It could have little to no Truth, and you couldn't draw a valid comparison.
The "Generic" implying that this formula is pursued due to its success in its appeal to the masses, and is therefore used repeatedly, in our world, of structured reason and moral. Generic.
The two could be Pie and Peas.
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True. Why should anybody care for an idea that is so mundane?
Perhaps, this is opinion, hundreds of thousands of insights, of preferences, that do find what you depict to have "No exceptionality", to be of stellar entertaintment. To say that a film consisting of "Regular people living their lives" will not gain an audience, is to highly underestimate the matter of division, that is the human race.
There is no singular mode in which the population are connected, apart from breathing to carry on living. Everything else is subjective, to opinion and circumstance. So there's no grounds to your argument, unless you can prove that NOBODY goes to see these movies. When infact, there are box office numbers that suggest that Ordinary, is just as appealing as Extraordinary. The two are often combined, to bridge the gap, and enable the audience to relate.
"Escapism" was the primary allure of the cinema. The film was not in question, there were no previews, no measures as to what could be created, and to what extent.
To make an analogy.
If you where a Detective, would you not go to see Detective movies?
If you where a Spy, would you not go to see James Bond?
If you where an Astronaut, would you not go to see a movie about Space travel?
Also, the above.
It started that way, so why should the discovery of somebodies ambition decades on, be less magical?
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Alright Pol I can see you are still going off on tangents and aren't quite getting what I'm saying. Let me see if I can say it simpler.
The OP stated that he sees all film as filled with nothing but unusual scenes, he wants to replicate that in his writing. If what he said is true, then being unusual is the normal way to write films, hence it will be generic formula. An example of what I'm talking about is summed up in this quote from a film your schizo remark brought to mind, "Reality is what we tell each other it is, sane and insane could easily switch places if the insane became the majority" that may not be an exact quote but it makes the point. Shocking the audience, making things unusual, when done to death as the OP claims then it CAN become generic. The audience expects to be shocked and surprised, so it becomes normal.
I never said a vision should be normal or that it shouldn't have unusual scenes, go back and read my posts if thats what you think. I have stated a few times quite clearly that you shouldn't TRY TOO HARD to achieve the goal. It should happen without spending possibly hours or days per scene to figure out some amazingly unusual way to make your characters keep the audiences interest.
Considering most of my own stories are set in Sci Fi/Fantasy or Horror genres I'd safely say they are far from usual boring everyday life. The thing is the unusual elements are born out of the story being told. I don't try to make them that way and I don't suggest others to actively try to, "That is what I do when I try to write. I think to my self what can I do that is unusual that would be interesting." to quote the OP. It should flow with the story. That quote instantly makes me think of a bunch of producer/director types sitting around a table throwing out random nonsense ideas to someone taking notes about how to wow or shock the public.
Refer back to the example I gave from the Kevin Smith story. Or go watch some really absurd B flicks that also tried too hard to do something awesome just to get laughed at during a serious moment.
I am simply pointing out that not EVERYTHING has to be unusual. Think of any movie you've seen ever. Can you honestly say that every single scene was unusual and would never happen in real life? You are acting like I said not to be creative, my advice is just don't take it to the extreme if it's not necessary. I seriously doubt people like Nolan or Aronofsky sat around pondering each scene with how they can make it weirder just for the sake of being so. If it fits the story then of course use it, if a scene calls for unusual then great, but dont over do it.
One more example then I'm hoping to be done with this conversation. Imagine watching Saw, you have a really intense scene, the character is losing it and possibly seconds from death. Then BAM out of the ceiling drops a birthday clown and he gets up and starts singing happy birthday then poof he's gone in a puff of smoke. Sounds pretty unusual to me, something unexpected and will definitely make the audience go "huh?" but would that add anything to the story? Probably not. Granted I haven't seen the films so maybe that does happen but either way it just sounds absurd even if it fits the criteria of being unusual.
The OP stated that he sees all film as filled with nothing but unusual scenes, he wants to replicate that in his writing. If what he said is true, then being unusual is the normal way to write films, hence it will be generic formula. An example of what I'm talking about is summed up in this quote from a film your schizo remark brought to mind, "Reality is what we tell each other it is, sane and insane could easily switch places if the insane became the majority" that may not be an exact quote but it makes the point. Shocking the audience, making things unusual, when done to death as the OP claims then it CAN become generic. The audience expects to be shocked and surprised, so it becomes normal.
I never said a vision should be normal or that it shouldn't have unusual scenes, go back and read my posts if thats what you think. I have stated a few times quite clearly that you shouldn't TRY TOO HARD to achieve the goal. It should happen without spending possibly hours or days per scene to figure out some amazingly unusual way to make your characters keep the audiences interest.
Considering most of my own stories are set in Sci Fi/Fantasy or Horror genres I'd safely say they are far from usual boring everyday life. The thing is the unusual elements are born out of the story being told. I don't try to make them that way and I don't suggest others to actively try to, "That is what I do when I try to write. I think to my self what can I do that is unusual that would be interesting." to quote the OP. It should flow with the story. That quote instantly makes me think of a bunch of producer/director types sitting around a table throwing out random nonsense ideas to someone taking notes about how to wow or shock the public.
Refer back to the example I gave from the Kevin Smith story. Or go watch some really absurd B flicks that also tried too hard to do something awesome just to get laughed at during a serious moment.
I am simply pointing out that not EVERYTHING has to be unusual. Think of any movie you've seen ever. Can you honestly say that every single scene was unusual and would never happen in real life? You are acting like I said not to be creative, my advice is just don't take it to the extreme if it's not necessary. I seriously doubt people like Nolan or Aronofsky sat around pondering each scene with how they can make it weirder just for the sake of being so. If it fits the story then of course use it, if a scene calls for unusual then great, but dont over do it.
One more example then I'm hoping to be done with this conversation. Imagine watching Saw, you have a really intense scene, the character is losing it and possibly seconds from death. Then BAM out of the ceiling drops a birthday clown and he gets up and starts singing happy birthday then poof he's gone in a puff of smoke. Sounds pretty unusual to me, something unexpected and will definitely make the audience go "huh?" but would that add anything to the story? Probably not. Granted I haven't seen the films so maybe that does happen but either way it just sounds absurd even if it fits the criteria of being unusual.