cinematography Why not Cameramen?

ad2478

ad2478

Friends on many sites i have seen people willing to become filmmakers. But i havent seen people willing to become Cameramen. Why is it so? I am specifically talking about cameramen because i personally feel that this is a great art to learn and some how it is more hard then being a filmmaker. What do you people say?

Regards
 
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It's not political correctness -- just correctness. The terms "cameraperson" and "camera operator" include both genders, and more accurately describes the position. To have a conversation about just cameramen excludes a large portion of people who do that job. Since the OP was asking about the profession, it was perfectly legitimate to point out this fact and offer it as a bit of information for his research on the topic.

I wasn't censoring anyone, just reminding or educating -- as the case may be. If he or anyone else chooses to still use the term cameraman, I would not try to censor that person. Simply illuminating a factual aspect of a career to someone who is seeking information on that career is not censorship nor suppression of anyone's free speech.
 
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citychik said:
It's not political correctness -- just correctness. The terms "cameraperson" and "camera operator" include both genders, and more accurately describes the position. To have a conversation about just cameramen excludes a large portion of people who do that job. Since the OP was asking about the profession, it was perfectly legitimate to point out this fact and offer it as a bit of information for his research on the topic.

I wasn't censoring anyone, just reminding or educating -- as the case may be. If he or anyone else chooses to still use the term cameraman, I would not try to censor that person. Simply illuminating a factual aspect of a career to someone who is seeking information on that career is not censorship nor suppression of anyone's free speech.
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This gender neutral society and sensitivity evolved from other endeavors to promote political correctness. Same holds true for the terms "actor" and "actress" where "actor" now denotes gender neutral. Changing from "Stewardess" to "Flight Attendant" is yet another example. And the OP is from a region in the world where women are still hidden from view and walk a step behind the man. Don't get me wrong, my original posting was meant as tongue-in-cheek since you use a slang term for "woman" as part of your username. No offence intended. I was just picking at the irony. Shouldn't you be "cityperson"? :yes:
 
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VPTurner said:
This gender neutral society and sensitivity evolved from other endeavors to promote political correctness. Same holds true for the terms "actor" and "actress" where "actor" now denotes gender neutral. Changing from "Stewardess" to "Flight Attendant" is yet another example. And the OP is from a region in the world where women are still hidden from view and walk a step behind the man. Don't get me wrong, my original posting was meant as tongue-in-cheek since you use a slang term for "woman" as part of your username. No offence intended. I was just picking at the irony. Shouldn't you be "cityperson"? :yes:
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In the last few years, Pakistani women have worked in television as screenwriters and journalists, and been trained to operate cameras among other duties. The progress is slow, but it is happening at a grassroots level.

http://www.irinnews.org/report.aspx?reportid=18565
http://www.pakistanpressfoundation.org/useractivitiesdetails.asp?uid=1324
http://www.internews.org/profiles/hunzai.shtm
http://tinyurl.com/5l75jz

Anyway, there is a difference between promoting use of "PC" terminology and suppressing someone's freedom of expression. Furthermore, I must insist that I was not "PC-motivated" when I wrote it. If there is a profession that only men take part in, I wouldn't care. Also, I think it's perfectly fine to say "cameraman" if you are only referring to a specific individual who is a man, and "camerawoman" if a woman -- but if you are talking about a general role/career/position, cameraperson or camera operator is more accurate because you're not talking about any one individual in particular and it could reference either gender. My comment was more about literal accuracy than promoting PC language.

Hence, my handle is citychik because it is not a reference to every type of city-dweller but just to me.
:)
 
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citychik said:
...

Hence, my handle is citychik because it is not a reference to every type of city-dweller but just to me.
:)
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Darn, you missed the underlying reference. Remember when Bat Girl (Alicia Silverstone) introduced herself and George Clooney said, "That's not awfully PC. Shouldn't you be Bat Woman or Bat Person?"

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I was just bored. Like I said, no offense intended. My wife would slap me if it were any other way. :lol:
 
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ad2478 said:
Indietalk

Thanks for telling me about DP and cameramen. I think i know the difference. A cameraman is the guy who only handles camera where as DP is responsible for creating required atmosphere and mangain the lighint for a specifi scene. Suppose if the scene is horror DP help us in doing that. AM i right??

By the way thanks to all of you for your guidense

Regards
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...also remember that when you are just starting out, sometimes the cameraperson, DP and director are all the same person. I speak from experience in that regard....:D

-- spinner :cool:
 
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citychik

Now doubt Pakistani Females are workinh in media. but i personally havent seen any female holding CAM and operating as Cameraperson.

By the way citychik i am talking about career of cameraman but the issue is diverted towards the gender. :D
 
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Whats going on now? Is that a that big problem in the US? The job gets who does the best job for the specific project. If some bully in the crew things he has to threaten anyone he either stops at the moment or leaves the crew.
To sustain in business at a higher level you have to be a strong character. What I learned is that women tend to be more the "nice guy" (probably the wrong term) kind of person, which doesnt fit. Gender discrimination isnt acceptable but it isnt a thing about terms. Its about what men DO.
 
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spinner said:
....see what you did, VP! :grumpy: you troublemaker! :lol:

-- spinner :cool:
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Oops. Now it's spinning even further downward. My bad! :mope:

But, you know, it's a very dramatic exchange and reveals nuances of character not only in our own culture, but other cultures throughout the world. As an aspiring screenwriter and storyteller, my work here is done. :D
 
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For several years, three short films (on film) and four features
(on film) my DP was Kate Butler. I always referred to her as a
"cameraman".

I loved how some people would correct me. It never bothered
her, but others took issue with it.
 
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citychik said:
Which one was that? I didn't see it.
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The subtext of gender neutrality as it relates to political correctness. Perhaps that was only in my mind, though, and didn't translate well. That was the scene that popped into my head, which lead to politically correct terminology supressing creative freedom and my personal irritation with the whole concept. You're right, though. Your example was more about correctness in general. But that scene and that George Clooney line connected the two in my head.
 
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On my film there was a female best boy electric. The title of the job is best boy electric. There are no boys, there are men and women. It's just a title, changing it would cause confusion.
 
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I'm getting into film making to specifically be a cameraman. I'm funding the purchase of all the gear myself and am going to produce and film. I'll delegate the directing, acting and writing to other amateurs in my area. The camera work is easily the most interesting to me.
 
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hi all...maybe this can clear a few things up

DP..Director of Photography...in charge of lighting giving a look to the film...working close with Director on shots (coverage)...on Low Budget Films he/or she may also operate the camera...

Camera Operator....operates the camera...keeping composition that DP and Director want for the shot...keeping the Frame so to say...looks out for lights and flags the might be getting into the shot as the DP lights...things like that...he doesnt light..pull focus...zoom (well maybe sometimes)

Focus Puller...works with operator to keep focus...and director will let him know what to keep focus on...its might be racking from one actor to another or just focusing on one...or a thing in frame...etc

but in the micro-budget world..ONE PERSON might be doing all these jobs...quite a bit to handle, but the job needs to be done....
 
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So far in my experience, I find that if you have the vision of how it should be in your mind, direct and run one of the cameras, and get the shots exactly as you wanted. This has for me been the best way to do things, as none of what I have done so far has been scripted nor storyboarded, just planned out on the spot. Course, if it's actually scripted and storyboarded, then it is easier to get the shots you want, relying on others to run the cameras, but it still may require some extra direction, especially if you are aiming for modern cinematic moving camera techniques, some people are not going to get the camera movement right at first, may take a while, and sometimes, time is terribly limited.

In my latest video, The Hall of Wrath, things were rather complicated. Normally I'd be the cameraperson and director, but this time, there was no one available to act with the other guy, but several willing to run cameras. It was very very difficult to get the shots I wanted them to get of us sometimes, I felt like a complete n00b at directing, but in the end it came out decently, though I would have wanted, had we more time, to get some much closer in, Bourne Ultimatum style shots, but I'll handle that in one of the next ones. I actually did grab the camera and do some shots that didn't need me in the frame myself, to speed things along (like the shots moving from a close-up of the guy, to the close-up of the gun, and reverse, and the shots of the girls coming in at the end, which in fact, no one else involved was there, yet it worked, as I had directed the camerapeople to shoot us in ways that wouldn't require the girls to be in frame.

The point is, there are many of us who just can't really call ourselves just a cameraperson or director, but filmmaker, as we may have to fill in several roles on low budgets. Even on a high budget and large crew, I'd still prefer running a camera as I direct, it's just what works best for me, though I would like to strictly direct once in a while to actually teach modern techniques.
 
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