Why do most 'indie'/low budget films fall down?

Using a Black Magic camera means your film will be incredible, and using anything else is a waste of time.
:lol:

I shot recently on a 5D with CP.2s and I can tell you in the final cut it will look better than anything londonfilmmaker, with 0 experience and knowledge, could shoot on a Blackmagic.

As far as being 100% satisfied with your work - I work with professionals and we shoot on high end cameras. There are two films I shot over the past few months currently goign out into the festival circuit. I'm not 100% happy with them. There are some shots that don't quite work they way I'd have liked, there are some colours that aren't quite exactly what I wanted, there are cuts that don't quite gel the way I though they were, and the Sound Design isn't mixed as well as I imagined.

That doesn't mean it's a bad film. I'm simply over-critical because it's my own work and I can be. I haven't posted anything in the screening room because of festival rules, but eventually I will and you can judge for yourself.

If you do nothing, you do nothing and you learn nothing. The first couple of films I ever made were absolute crap, but you learn from your mistakes. Film School is what launched my professional career, and I certainly made mistakes during my time, but you learn from them. Mistakes I made during school are mistakes that i have since not made again in the professional world.

And a camera body has nothing to do with how a film looks. The biggest contributor from a DPs perspective to how the film looks is lensing and lighting. After that, a camera body is more or less like a film stock - they all have their different characteristics but are all perfectly fine for use on any movie. Overall, Prodcution Design is probably the biggest thing lacking in most low budget productions. Production Design can make or break a film, and can be the differentiator between amateur looking and professional looking. There's no point having the best lenses and best lighting if there's nothing in the shot to look at. I rely heavily on the Production Designers to dress the frame and make it look great.

That, and proper colour correction I think are the two biggest things - I've seen professional colourists take footage shot for a film on Alexa, 5DmkIII and slow-mo in FS700 and grade them so you can hardly pick the difference between the three, especially on anything smaller than a cinema screen. So many T2i movies either aren't colour corrected at all, or are crushed too much - too much contrast. Plus, usually they're shot without keeping things within the range of the camera - if shooting on a DSLR and there's an inside scene with a window, I'll gel the window with ND1.2 so we can see outside, and stick a light bouncing in the interior, so the window doesn't blow out. So many DSLR projects just let the window blow out, or let the shadows clip.

Oh, and sound, sound is a huge component that often gets overlooked.

However, with all that said, films that exhibit these things are not necessarily bad films, and are often completely watchable. I watched Like Crazy, where there were shots and areas that were under-exposed, there were shots and areas that were over-exposed. The whole film looked like it was shot on a 7D and withuot a huge budget. But I got sucked into the movie and loved it. And that's why it got distribution - it was shot on a 7D (admittedly with Ultra Primes), but it was distributed internationally in cinemas. As long as a movie is altogether watchable, it's the story that really matters in the end.
 
:lol:


If you do nothing, you do nothing and you learn nothing. The first couple of films I ever made were absolute crap, but you learn from your mistakes. Film School is what launched my professional career, and I certainly made mistakes during my time, but you learn from them. Mistakes I made during school are mistakes that i have since not made again in the professional world.

Jax, which film school did you attend? (Having just competed year 12) I've applied at a bunch in Melbourne, I know I didn't get into VCA, which was my highest preference (I know this because of their early short listing process) but the rest I won't really know until I get my scores next week. Swinburne was my second preference followed by Deakin and Holmesglen. Any advice perhaps?
 
Jax, which film school did you attend? (Having just competed year 12) I've applied at a bunch in Melbourne, I know I didn't get into VCA, which was my highest preference (I know this because of their early short listing process) but the rest I won't really know until I get my scores next week. Swinburne was my second preference followed by Deakin and Holmesglen. Any advice perhaps?

PM me, so as not to take this too off-topic :)
 
People will probably disagree with me, but one thing that really makes a film look cheap is badly done DSLR video. It has a super digital feel that always looks like a home movie. Us indie film makers can't usually afford the expensive camera which can totally change the feel and look of a film.
 
The main reason.... Bad scripts.

^^ this is a huge part of it.

Timing (often too slow, where people get the chance to over think situations and break their suspension of disbelief, or even worse get bored... or the opposite, too quick where the audience isn't given the right amount of time to soak in what's been shown to them). Continually showing the mundane. Lack of flow. No imagination. Obvious plot holes. Lack of attention to detail. Inability to make a shot look interesting. Same old, same old plot, story and twists. Of course there can be shoddy camera work, poor video and audio quality, ordinary flat acting, lack of preparation and planning. Lack of funding and the list goes on... and on...

It happens in professional work too.

This all assumes you believe that a function of film making is perfection. Luckily it's not. For some it's a form of expression. For others, it's movie business, a function of risk of ruin vs return on investment (keep costs as low as possibly while maximizing revenues as much as you can). Some people focus completely on the audience and others are still learning their craft and deciding if filming is for them. People get into film making for a variety of reasons.

Quality is subjective. There are lots of people who don't enjoy Hollywood movies. They're bored to death with their predictability. Some prefer the B Grade horror movies while others would rather gnaw off their right arm. What works for you might not work for me or others.
 
I haven't read the whole thread, just the first few lines of the first post...but...

Comparison is the thief of joy. Know that. Keep your head down, take care of #1.

Besides, my shit is A1 top class. And if you don't agree, I've got another quote for you...
coco chanel - "I don't care what you think about me. I don't think about you at all."

*take that whole post with a 'satirical' grain of salt. :)
 
People will probably disagree with me, but one thing that really makes a film look cheap is badly done DSLR video. It has a super digital feel that always looks like a home movie. Us indie film makers can't usually afford the expensive camera which can totally change the feel and look of a film.

"Badly done" 35mm film, Badly done Alexa, and badly done F65 will look cheap as well. It's 15% the tool and 85% the person wielding it.
 
I shot recently on a 5D with CP.2s and I can tell you in the final cut it will look better than anything londonfilmmaker, with 0 experience and knowledge, could shoot on a Blackmagic.

Sorry, but I find that hard to believe. Maybe you aren't aware of the fact that the 5D only shoots 1080p, while the BMCC shoots 2.5k? If we divide 2500 by 1080 it becomes immediately clear that anything shot on the BMCC will automatically be 2.31x better than the 5D - and 2.31x is much closer to the cinemascope standard of 2.35x so it's much more cinematic. It also shoots RAW, and indie filmmakers are always looking for that raw feeling in their work - although it may be worth waiting for the next model which is rumored to record to the coveted GRITTY format. Oh, and it's magic...
 
Perhaps it's because they've invested so much time and money in a project, they feel it justifies them trying to sell or promote their work as a serious product.

Yep.

At the very least, their time and money investment probably makes them feel like it's worth taking a shot, even if they fail and even if they know it's not "Nolan caliber" work. It might be accepted, it might not, but if you don't try you don't win.

So at what point is someone "justified" in trying to promote or sell their work? What is "good enough to market"? And who gets to decide?

If you've got a clear cut litmus test for this stuff, let me know.
 
Sorry, but I find that hard to believe. Maybe you aren't aware of the fact that the 5D only shoots 1080p, while the BMCC shoots 2.5k? If we divide 2500 by 1080 it becomes immediately clear that anything shot on the BMCC will automatically be 2.31x better than the 5D - and 2.31x is much closer to the cinemascope standard of 2.35x so it's much more cinematic. It also shoots RAW, and indie filmmakers are always looking for that raw feeling in their work - although it may be worth waiting for the next model which is rumored to record to the coveted GRITTY format. Oh, and it's magic...

Haha

Cannot wait for the new gritty model ;)
 
Sorry, but I find that hard to believe. Maybe you aren't aware of the fact that the 5D only shoots 1080p, while the BMCC shoots 2.5k? If we divide 2500 by 1080 it becomes immediately clear that anything shot on the BMCC will automatically be 2.31x better than the 5D - and 2.31x is much closer to the cinemascope standard of 2.35x so it's much more cinematic.

I don't think that's a huge difference. While the BMCC could be better (I have shot on neither and done little research) what you've just said is an invalid argument. Yes it has a better resolution, but that doesn't mean the image will be clearer, better or more engaging etc..
 
I don't think that's a huge difference. While the BMCC could be better (I have shot on neither and done little research) what you've just said is an invalid argument. Yes it has a better resolution, but that doesn't mean the image will be clearer, better or more engaging etc..

I don't know whether your post was satirical but the one you quoted was... :weird: confused.
 
I have discovered I am not alone looking to low / no budget independent films for original content and a refreshing change to studio factory pressed formula films.

Someone with an inner eye can see potential in new content in the right hands.

Remember, Rotten Tomatoes makes a living trashing bad films and there is a crowd who gets a laugh out of those cheap films.

My cheap production is getting attention on a TV professionals board. One producer who knows the son of a well known science fiction producer said he will put this VIP in touch with me.

Battle on fellow Indie filmmakers!

Let the world see your passion and keep on filming!
 
First thing that jumps out at me from 99% of what is posted in the 'Screening Room' section is the poor quality image and the lack of a 'filmic' look. Your GH2 or your T2i might produce a decent image - but it's not a filmic image unless you have access to ridiculously expensive primes/cinema lenses which cost 10x the cost of the body. In my opinion, the best thing anyone could do is put 30% of a 10k budget (or thereabouts) on a camera like the new BMCC (Blackmagic Cinema Camera).

This statement effectively answers your question!!

One of the most difficult of skills, if not the most difficult, is objectivity. Virtually all lo/no budget filmmakers look at their work subjectively. Their objectivity is coloured and becomes subjective by their particular interest/s; The resolution of the camera they spent so much money on, the script, the acting, the cinematography, the lighting, etc. Good film is not about any one of these things or even several of them, it's about using all the different filmmaking crafts together to tell a story. You can have the best camera money can buy, the best cinematography and the best lighting and still an audience will find it boring, unless the audience is exclusively other cinematographers! Poor quality images don't necessarily make a poor film, poor quality images communicate something and if that something is part of the story telling, poor quality images are better than high quality images! Same is true of bad acting, bad script, bad music, etc. It's all about the objectivity to make sure you are communicating to the audience what you want to communicate, regardless of image resolution or any other aspect of filmmaking.

Your statement proves you are focusing on image quality. I look at most indie films and find them boring, the emotional involvement is limited or non-existent, the excitement is limited, the pacing is off and the entertainment value is marginal. Everything technical (including image quality) is at best secondary to any of these attributes. You may find emotional involvement, excitement and entertainment value from a BMCC but an audience won't know what a BMCC is or care in the slightest. This is why objectivity is so important!

G
 
My first film

I am not claiming to be a pro by any means, but i did some hard work hand drew a story board picked out all my locations and i feel managed to get a decent product for having filmed, edited, and did the sound on my own, but of course i had a little help from some friends. you be the judge and let me know how shity it turned out, don't worry i can deal with mean words, i will take them and fix it for the next film. I do know the first shot is a little out of focus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ1GL51H8Xg&feature=share&list=UUZv2sHLlqHbJXrpXG9MTQSg
http://youtu.be/oQ1GL51H8Xg
 
Putting aside the quality of the script, there are two reasons why most indie films fail; lack of skills and lack of patience.

I don't care how brilliant you are, you can't be brilliant at everything, and even if you are brilliant at everything you can’t do everything all by yourself. I've mentioned this before, and I'll repeat myself until folks finally get it. I spent a number of years as a music recording engineer before migrating to audio post. After migrating to audio post I did it almost exclusively for almost five (5) years before I felt that I had a really solid grip on the process. Now, apply this to the indie filmmaker. Let's be generous; two (2) years each at cinematography (I'll be generous and include lighting here), wardrobe, hair & make-up, set design, set dressing, directing actors, production sound, editing, audio post, color correction... you get the idea. That means in 20 years you will have enough proficiency in all of the filmmaking crafts to make a good film as long as you have a good script and good actors.

Okay, let's say you are an unmitigated genius - Ford, Fleming, Hitchcock, Coppola and Spielberg all rolled into one. It's not going to do you one damned bit of good unless you practice incredible amounts of patience. I'm sure that not one of those directors ever said, "Oh, forget about it, that's good enough." For someone like that it is NEVER good enough. But one of the major reasons that they never have to settle is that they preproduce the living hell out of everything that they do.

Let’s face it; “Hollywood” types rely on dozens of very talented people to do things for them. Since you don’t have that kind of budget you have to do these things yourself. A “Hollywood” film spends six months to a year, and sometimes more, in preproduction. How long do most indie types spend on preproduction?

The whole point of this is that the “Hollywood” directors expend incredible amounts of time on details, even if they have “directed” someone to do a job for them. They explain precisely what they want, and trust their department heads to do their jobs. Indie folks don’t have that luxury.

Too many indie types just want to get on with the shooting. They lack PATIENCE. How do you make up for lack of budget? You spend incredible amounts of time planning the shoot. Don’t have the money? Spend more time! You expend every last ounce of effort finding the optimum locations. You test, and test, and test some more. After you have painstakingly selected the perfect cast you test wardrobe, you test make-up & hair. You discuss the script and the look that you want with your DP and gaffer. You spend weeks haunting Good Will and Salvation Army shops and FreeCycle and other resources for props, wardrobe and whatever other goodies fall into your hands. Just how important is your project? If you have aspirations to create a product that audiences will enjoy you need to spend time instead of money. Have patience, nail down all of the small details that make up a great work of art, or a salable product, however you want to look at it.

One of the biggest problems is that indie types see and hear their film as they see and hear it in their head, not as the audience will experience it.
 
Too many indie types just want to get on with the shooting. They lack PATIENCE. How do you make up for lack of budget?

This is me! And this explains why "current project" is STILL in post, even though we shot in June!

I lacked patience to plan more... now I have to DRAG my self to the computer to work on it because I see ALL the stupid mistakes I made that cost me the right shots, which I now DONT have.. so sigh.. (it is coming together finally but dang!)
 
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