Why do even the smallest films cost thousands?

WYG1Productions

WYG1Productions

Exactly what the title says, I don't get it.
We are producing our first film on a little over $1000, I don't understand where all the big bucks come in?
Personal cameras have come a long way, and so has digital recording.
With a good story and a small crew I don't see why something like what we're doing can't compare to something you might see at Sundance?
Can someone explain to me where the real cost comes in, and is anyone going to take us seriously even if the movie is good?
 
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rayw said:
Were those direct costs only or both direct and indirect overhead costs, as well?
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Direct.
$350 to a motel to let us shoot in their lobby for 6 hours, rental of three rooms from the same motel (1 to shoot in, 1 to stage gear in, 1 to set up makeup and craft services, then all three to sleep in before driving 1.5 hours to 7 AM call the next day).

$20 per diem for gas to each actor and crew member.

$50/day plus kit fee to makeup.

$100/day to DP.

Craft services costs.
 
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Beautiful. Thank you.

And is this for the one you're sending off to Cali for editing?

I see the MUA and DP were paid.
Actor talent "donated"?
Did you do both directing and audio? (and lighting and line production and PA and, and, and... )
Still gotta pay the editor, too?
DP's camera equipment or yours?
How much driving around (which, according to the IRS, costs more than just gas!) would you actually attribute to this shoot, before and after the actual shooting?
How many hours of phone calls and email checking would you attribute?
How much is your time worth?

EDIT: Actually, the more I think of it, all of these expenses can still be attributed to a single project, still making them all direct costs.
Indirect costs could be any computer + software you'll use to review whatever your Cali editor puts together or the expense of your own lighting equipment. Do any of you guys do business cards?
Distribution! You tube/Vimeo or you going the festival route (direct costs!)? Kaaaa-ching! (Ouch!)

Now, honestly those are rhetorical questions on my behalf. (I don't want anyone all up in my business unless I invite them to, so I extend that same courtesy to you and others), but I do want to illustrate that "costs" and "expenses" go waaaaaaay beyond generally aware of out of pocket expenditures.

Point is is I respect filmmaking can be just as equally expensive hobby as ATVing, skeet shooting, bass fishing, amateur racing, or scary craft booking!
I understand Hobby Lobby & Michael's make a lotta moolah offa regular folks just putzin' around.
This sh!t can get expensive really fast.
 
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Interesting, I had never thought about "Indirect" costs that have been cited-makes sense though: IE I'm making a film for myself I use my computer software, I don't "charge" myself for it (though I suppose I could for bragging rights: "I paid myself 1000 dollars for 5 min of film footage! :D" as opposed to if I do projects for other people (which I have, small things) I got paid for the use of my time (sadly not 1000 dollars!).

That's a really neat concept I hadn't thought of.
 
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Tinalera said:
IE I'm making a film for myself I use my computer software, I don't "charge" myself for it (though I suppose I could for bragging rights: "I paid myself 1000 dollars for 5 min of film footage! :D" as opposed to if I do projects for other people (which I have, small things) I got paid for the use of my time (sadly not 1000 dollars!).
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Exactly!

And this is where many small business people just starting out get into all sorts of wonky trouble: How much revenue after all other expenses (rent, insurance, stock, utilities, employees+benefits) are paid do I reinvest in the business as I forgo my own home expenses, from which savings are often being consumed?
How much do I pay myself without looking like I'm ripping off investors or the SBA?

The value of labor is a funny thing.

Commoditized labor is one thing.
Special projects and specialty skills... get kinda screwy, especially when investors/donors start eyeballing your spreadsheets.



I love the occasional fundraiser posts that pop up here; "Gimme $4,000 for a new camera so I can shoot my opus!"
LOL! What? No "Please? As in 'Please gimme money'"? :lol:
Sh!t, why don't you just say "Please gimme $4,000 for scotch and hookers! I'll record it on my iPhone".
LMAO!

Seriously.
How much is your time worth when you're doing something you enjoy?
I think your time is important.
 
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There are ways to save and ways you will end up spending more than you expected to spend. Owning all of your equipment and buying it with extended warranties saves on insurance costs. Subject matter and genre will cost much more if you shoot action / adventure and or science fiction over a Comedy / drama. Stunts will
drive up youe set insurance costs just like a supply of brekaway bottles, furniture, and weapons. You can get good talent to work for free, even from other countries they will travel to you, if you have a compelling script. No actor will take a bad script seriously. You can also consider SAG actors with a SAG agreement to work for free as long as your script is compelling with good characters they can get into and a complete story that makes sense. That means spending money on a good script consultant to make that happen.

You need some money for a crew. You can get them for much less than industry standard rates if you can offer them something of value.

Also, in my case, I already told the cast and crew don't expect the final cut before next year when I can get additional funds from tax refunds to complete the production the right way.

You can get people to take you seriously too with a good marketing plan. Where is the final cut going? Who will see it? You have to aim higher than film festivals and your final cut cannot look like just another independent film either.

Yahoo news reported last week postproduction houses are in danger of becoming extinct because studios are doing their post in house and because of more powerful personal computers with post software.

If I can't get pricing I can afford from them next year, if they still want to play hardball with their pricing, there is always guru.com where I set the price and take bids for the jobs from around the world and the best bang for the buck wins. I'll even get a graphics design company design a nice poster for the production for me.

These are good ways to hold a budget down. But, some money still will be spent.
 
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Wayward Traveler said:
This only cost us about $100 to make: http://www.youtube.com/user/avidmoviefan?feature=mhee
Now, if you throw in the cost of the camera, an RV to live on the road, rental cars, food, fuel, bail, blow and hookers the cost goes way up.
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Pleasant docu short.

FWIW & JIMHO, rather than 100% competing with a voice over narrator or with character dialog, I prefer the soundtracks to be suggested in the background at about 35%. Maybe in the quiet gaps bring it up close to parity while avoiding an obvious soundtrack up-and-down wave effect.

How are the Reno hookers, BTW? You doing a documentary on those, right? ;)
 
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You guys are all forgetting beard grooming costs and second hand clothing for teh independant film makers lol

I think budget, experience, artistic vision are all directly related. If you know what you're doing, you can shoot a movie for a lot less than a first timer who goes out to buy all new equipment. An experienced director knows teh short cuts already where as the newbie has to find out for themself. Likewise, if you have a serious vision and are willing to pay to make it realized, then you'll probably end up paying more than someone who just wanted to film a good story they wrote.

I think the best way is to get all the aspects needed to make a movie(camera, sound, lighting etc.) from a couple different sources that way you save on those costs. If you can team up with people thats even better. Serious planning before shooting and team assembly should definitely take place. The more efficient you can be when shooting, the less money you might be spending.
 
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When I first started I made films with 2 (sometimes up to 4)
friends. When I decided to make films to enter in film festivals
I used 8 to 10 crew. These days I will not even consider making
a movie with a crew smaller than 16.

Of course a movie (even a good one) can be made with fewer
people on the crew. But a larger crew makes the shoot smoother
and faster and is easier on the people. And more expensive...
 
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directorik said:
These days I will not even consider making
a movie with a crew smaller than 16.
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Would you be willing to break down what positions those would be?
A handful of them I could guess at, but experience trumps guessing!
Thank you.
(Please, anyone else working from a crew bigger than DP/audio/PA x 2 feel free to throw down a list of who and why would also be great).
 
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DP
Key grip
Sound Guy
DIT (Assistant Editor)
Makeup
1st AD
Script Supervisor
A couple of PAs for a total of about 10. That's my bare bones, skeleton crew.
I actually didn't have a true 1st AD on this last shoot, she bailed at the last minute, and nobody to fill in. It's one of the reasons I am so worried about it. I had too much to keep up with and fear I forgot something.
 
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rayw said:
Would you be willing to break down what positions those would be?
A handful of them I could guess at, but experience trumps guessing!
Thank you.
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DP/operator
1st AC
1st AD
script supervisor
gaffer
dolly grip/key grip
grip/electric
grip/electric
grip/electric
makeup/costumer
set dresser/props
mixer
boom op
craft services/caterer
PA
PA

A crew of 5 (grip/electric) will save many hours of shoot time over the
course of a two/three day shoot. Cut that by two and it takes twice as
long to set up, move between set ups and strike. And there is less burn
out for the people working. Most directors don't even consider the "art
department". You would be amazed on how much time is saved when
you have one person in charge of all props used in a movie. Most rarely
even think of a set dresser/props person because they rarely consider
that a needed job. But that one time you (or the actor) forgets that little
prop and you have to stop while someone runs home to get it... And to
have one person watching for little things like where that lamp was in
the shot or if the magazines on the table are where they were in the
previous shot can make a big difference.

A First AD and a scripty seems an unnecessary thing for most directors
used to doing everything themselves. When you finally get around to
using these valuable people on a set you will wonder how you ever got
by without them. And a good scripty is a life saver in the editing room.
 
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Riks post is what I was referring to when I said that either you retain someone to do the job, or all of the details are on you. What is the most important about expending the funds to hire a professional is that one person has all of the responsibilities for their specific craft. You no longer have to worry about _________. The blank is filled with "is there a good battery in the wireless", "where is the prop gun", "where is the permit".... The list is endless.

When lighting the set you just sit there with your DP and watch the monitor while your grips do the work - instead of running around looking for power outlets or gels. The sound team will be practicing during blocking, and working with the DP to catch boom shadows - you don't interrupt a take. Wardrobe, make-up and hair are prepping your talent while all this is going on - all the characters will have a consistent look. And do you know what magically happens then? Since everyone has taken the burden of ten thousand little details off of your shoulders you can now concentrate on being a director, telling your story and getting the most out of your talent. You are now a DIRECTOR.


directorik said:
And a good scripty is a life saver in the editing room.
Click to expand...

Life-Saver-th.jpg

lifesaver.png
 
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