where/how to get money and professional support?

Hi all, I guess this question is as noob as it can get.
Anyway, I will be making my second short film soon. Story line is pretty much done and will be working on script very soon. I think this will turn out to be great, if I can get some professional and financial support. My first movie was ruined by my amatureness in shooting and production.
Or....is there a way to sell a script/story to a movie company or something? I thought about making it a novel or a book, but I am not that good at writing...
:huh:

Thanks guys
 
I'm not really sure what to say... I mean searching the forums enough in Screenwriting would have provided you with some insight... maybe the Pre-Production board?

1) No one will finance your short films, perhaps your mother?
2) Let's up your noobness! There are a LOT of YouTube channels out there that give you the knowledge to up your game. Check out Indy Mogul and Film Riot first and go from there!
3) Up your writing game? Check out the novel "Save The Cat", it's one of the highest recommended books for new screenwriters! Dated, but knowledgable.
4) Write, Shoot, Edit, Repeat
 
Or....is there a way to sell a script/story to a movie company or something? I thought about making it a novel or a book, but I am not that good at writing...

You're not good at writing, but you expect a company to pay you for a script? :lol:
That's not going to happen.
 
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ya, earning as script writer in indie /short movie is almost impossible.
well, it's the same case with each and every section in this industry.

only purpose people want to get here is to make their profile strong and then jump into main stream.

if you got work of 3-5 movies in diefferent or main possible style as even good, then that might be enough for you to enter main stream for demo purpose.

People look for skit /script writers at t.v studio.
the number shows they have , many number of writers are used in group for building idea's, punch lines, etc in a show.
it is said that they will be havin some 6-10 writers in a group to make sitcom possible.
pay ment for you might happen they way they feel.
but again, the experience tag and experience might be enough for recieving call to join new groups of writers for other shows too.
Will they be providing name credit in this ?
may be not.
only main script writers name and
main dailog writers name will pop up.

but yes, you will get recognised being in one of their team.
these team might want you to be in story building and punch line category to work.

Is it not possible for single person to write sitcom for 10 or even 20 episode.
yes possible.

but they look for more alternative changes as much as possible.
they even keep changing and using the ideas of your's that got thrown just yesterday.

If make impression in this manner , you might get chance to share about script you have with directors working there.
it might be full movie script too.

what about short movie industry?
it exists.
think about giving rather than expecting financial income here.
that's the faith!!!

be carefull while choosing the group to sell/lendfree script.
just don't do it.
the so called experienced personalities here might spoil your dream for building strong profile.

With so many credit to your name,don't mention the crap movies name that might spoil your image.
they are just bad dream .just forget about it.
you can't blame those hopeless unit.
it just happens.

best of luck
 
Welcome to indietalk
My first movie was ruined by my amatureness in shooting and production.
Yep. A first movie is going to be pretty bad. Money wouldn't change the fact that
you are still an amateur with only one film made. Now you know making a movie
is crazy difficult.
Or....is there a way to sell a script/story to a movie company or something? I thought about making it a novel or a book, but I am not that good at writing...
Yes, there are ways to sell a finished script to a movie company or something.
But it needs to be very, very good. Since you aren't that good at writing
I think selling a script/story isn't an option.

The only way I know of to get money for a second film when the first one
isn't very good is to finance it yourself. With a great script and some hard
work you might find some people with more experience to help you with
the next one. I bet even if you have very little money your second one will
be better than your first. Not by much, but better. And your fifth will be
better than the ones before it.

Are you in this for the long run? Are you thinking of learning as you make
the next four movies or is this second film the last one you're going to make?
 
I mostly agree with Rik on this with one caveat.

If you are 100% sure that money is the only difference between the amateur result of your first film and a professional result of your next film, dig deep and pull the money out of your wallet and/or extort your family for the hard cash you need.

If your second film with financing is going to be of obvious superior quality that it'll grant you a career, do it. Prior warning though. If you're wrong (which, unless you're a savant and others somehow sabotaged your film, which I don't think is the case as the buck ends with the director), it can be difficult to go to that same funding source ever again and you may not be able to draw when you're truly ready for your big break.
 
where/how to get money and professional support?

That's the Producer's job, during development.

I think this will turn out to be great, if I can get some professional and financial support. My first movie was ruined by my amatureness in shooting and production.

I don't understand? If all that is stopping you making a great film is money/funding and funding occurs during development, then your first movie must have been ruined by "amateurness" in the development phase (and probably pre-production as well), not just in the shooting/production phase.

What you need then is a good producer, which are difficult to find for a feature, let alone for shorts which are almost impossible to directly monetise. What will attract a good producer is a good track record and a good (read exceptionally good) screenplay and you stated that you have neither. You therefore need to practise/study/learn a lot more about filmmaking in general AND either learn how to write exceptionally good screenplays or learn how to choose exceptionally good screenplays. Of course, without the skills/resources to start with, you're going to have to start at the bottom and work your way up gradually with not so exceptionally good screenplays. In other words, there is no single step from noob (with one ruined short under their belt) to funded, great film. It's a long tough road and approaching it any differently is effectively just delusional!

G
 
I hate to get into a discussion with you APE but I've got to ask:
How do you know he isn't asking as the producer?

He's in development, he has made one short film. Most beginners
are the producer. So this beginning filmmaker is most likely the
producer.

With that and your correct statement that finding financing is the
producers job do (and I hate to even ask) have any advice on how
a second time producer can find financing and professional support?

<covers my head and prepares for the tirade>
 
How do you know he isn't asking as the producer?

Because if he were a producer he wouldn't need to ask! I'm not saying that producers aren't frequently on the lookout for new, more, better funding sources but they don't need to ask the very basics.

Most beginners are the producer.

From what I've seen, most beginners may call or credit themselves as the Producer but they're really not. In many cases they don't even know what a Producer does, let alone know how to do it! Many aspects of the producer's role are simply ignored and some are not really required in amateur filmmaking in the first place. IMHO, the job of Producer is one of the most difficult to learn using the self-taught route and is often the most poorly executed role in lo budget or amateur films which aspire to commercial gain. For someone wanting to be a producer my best advice is to intern with an established professional producer, progress to getting some work as an assistant, then to an Associate Producer and eventually, hopefully to being an actual Producer.

G
 
Thanks a bunch guys. All replies are very helpful at first glance. I will read more in detail for sure.

Yes, I don't really know what I was asking, sorry. I just think I have some good ideas and don't want to simply put them behind.

Who am I? Someone love movies and has a mindset of making movies. Shooting, producing or whatever involved other than acting are all done by me. After my first unsatisfying movie, I realize how difficult it is to make good movies, even if they are short. I just wish my second movie to look more pro, although I am zero schooling in filmmaking. That's kinda why I am here.

Well, I guess monkeying around online to learn stuff and trying shoot films in the way I think it should be maybe the most viable choice for me.
 
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I suggest you take the route of make something, learn from it. Repeat the process until you get to the point where you can make a professional end result.

With each step it's important to increase the quality of your end result.
 
...if I can get some professional and financial support.
Professional support comes from the friends you have and the contacts you make.
You're making contacts here right now.

Financial support comes from your own bank account, mom's bank account, money you can mooch off your friends, and the Fictional Filmmakers Bureau of Finance, which is of course non-existent.


My first movie was ruined by my amatureness in shooting and production.
This is why we make many short-shorts, to learn from each experience.
Five four-minute shorts will teach you a lot more than one twenty minute short.


Or....is there a way to sell a script/story to a movie company or something?
Nope.
Yeah, it's doable, but not worth the hassle and it's a ridiculous long shot.
Better odds of getting a part-time job and using that cash to fund your filmmaking dreams.
And forget crowdsourcing. It ain't anywhere near as easy as it sounds.


I thought about making it a novel or a book, but I am not that good at writing...
You're getting farther off track.
If you're going to make a film - then make a film.



What camera are you using?
Do you have a couple of buddies who can pose as actors?
What're three locations you have available?
 
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Because if he were a producer he wouldn't need to ask! I'm not saying that producers aren't frequently on the lookout for new, more, better funding sources but they don't need to ask the very basics.
I know I'm going to regret this...

Even producers start somewhere. And beginning producers ask questions.
The basic questions.

The path you mention is one of many possible. Most beginners are producing.
A one person operation is the producer and director and writer and often DP.
You won't call then "producer" but it doesn't mean they aren't the producer.
What you can't do is answer the question asked.

Okay, APE, put me in my place.

Yes, I don't really know what I was asking, sorry. I just think I have some good ideas and don't want to simply put them behind.
Don't be sorry. Some here are willing to help people like you. It's why
we are here. Ask away.

Who am I? Someone love movies and has a mindset of making movies. Shooting, producing or whatever involved other than acting are all done by me. After my first unsatisfying movie, I realize how difficult it is to make good movies, even if they are short. I just wish my second movie to look more pro, although I am zero schooling in filmmaking. That's kinda why I am here.
Again, welcome. This can be a great place to ask questions and learn. Sure,
you'll need t sift through the less than helpful but all in all this is the place.

Keep making movie with what you have. You'll get better.
 
Hey Air.

First... Welcome!

Two... On occasion you will find APE (AudioPostExpert) and others - 'Rik (directorik) in this case - getting into polite, but heated, philosophical disputes. Don't be dismayed if one of your threads gets hijacked, these debates are fun and educational. It also shows that even working professionals can have very different viewpoints and approaches.

Three... I suggest to all newbs that they get out there and work on films. Work on every project you can find in your area. This accomplishes a couple of things for you:

A) You get on a film set and gain some experience. Okay, it's a just a little indie shoot, but it's a shoot. You'll learn lessons both positive and negative. The more experience you have, the better your personal projects will turn out.
"An amateur learns from his mistakes; a professional learns from the mistakes of others."

B) You will be networking with others interested in making films. When it comes time to make your film you'll already know people with gear, who have at least some experience, and with whom you have already enjoyed working.

The rest of the time you work on your script. There are a few books that are recommended; apparently Save The Cat! is the place to start (I wouldn't know; as my handle implies I'm an audio guy).

The "magic" formula for success is discipline + hard work + discipline + hard work + discipline + hard work + discipline + hard work + discipline + hard work + discipline + hard work + discipline + hard work + lots of luck.

Get started! :yes::D
 
Financial support comes from your own bank account, mom's bank account, money you can mooch off your friends, and the Fictional Filmmakers Bureau of Finance

Golden. Both hilarious and very much true at the same time. Mind if I steal this from time to time?

Save The Cat!

As a book to teach writing, I think it sucks. I still think it's a very important book to read if you're consider writing, producing or even directing. Its strength is where it teaches you a method to identify which projects/scripts will waste your time and which are the gold that attracts finance.
 
Okay, APE, put me in my place.

I'm not trying to put you in your place, I'm not trying to be confrontational at all! I'm just presenting information (which maybe only an opinion in some cases) learnt from my experience as a long time professional, which hopefully the OP and others may find useful. I'm frequently rather blunt and undiplomatic but that's one of the attractions for me in posting here, because in my daily working life I have to be extremely diplomatic all the time, even though being right at the end of the filmmaking process means that much of my work is dealing with all the mistakes/weaknesses made earlier in the filmmaking process. I've also personally found that there's usually a lot more to be learnt from an experienced professional who is not being diplomatic than from one who is, because being diplomatic essentially means fudging the facts, the truth and/or one's opinion.

With this in mind, I'll address some of your points, even though as an experienced filmmaker yourself, I suspect you already know what I'm going to say.

Even producers start somewhere.

Agreed. Our apparent disagreement appears to be where that "somewhere" is. I contend that Producer is not a starting position, it's an ending position. In my experience, there is no such thing as a "beginning producer" or rather there is but a beginning producer already has considerable knowledge/experience. In other words, a beginning producer is not a Producer, to start with they are maybe an intern, then maybe a professional film crafts-person (say a writer, editor, actor or director), eventually progressing to maybe Supervising Producer, UPM, PM, AP or Co-Producer or, if starting as an investor, they may progress to say Co-Executive Producer. Whichever of the various routes is taken, the starting position is not Producer and by the time they are ready to start being a Producer they not only know what the basic questions are in the first place, they also have a pretty good knowledge and understanding of the answers!

A one person operation is the producer and director and writer and often DP.
You won't call then "producer" but it doesn't mean they aren't the producer.

IMO, in the vast majority of cases I wouldn't call them "producer" AND they wouldn't be a producer. There are a number of different types of producer and a beginning or amateur filmmaker may have to fulfil some of the aspects of some of those types of producer but that doesn't make them the producer. Just as someone starting their own business (on their own or with a partner) may have to fulfil some aspects of the role of CEO but they are not a CEO.

In essence, the role of director is to make a film while the role of producer, as the root of the word implies, is to make a product, a viable one. Beginner filmmakers (and amateur filmmakers, virtually by definition) are primarily concerned with making a film, not making a viable product, which IMO is a very good place to start because just making a narrative film is plenty difficult enough! Therefore, very few parts of the producer's role are of any real concern. For example, one of the responsibilities of the producer is the hiring, contracting and management of all the filmmaking personnel, a major task with very serious consequences on a commercial feature but of no concern to the beginning filmmaker who, as you point out, often is pretty much all of the filmmaking personnel! Does avoiding the responsibilities of a producer still make our beginner a producer? Does a quick phone call to a couple of mates asking for half an hour's help suddenly make our beginner a producer?

What you can't do is answer the question asked.

Explaining why a question can't be answered, why it's an inappropriate question in the first place and giving suggestions for possible next steps is answering the question, or at least is answering the question as well as I believe it can be answered.

After my first unsatisfying movie, I realize how difficult it is to make good movies, even if they are short.

With all due respect, you probably don't. Your experience so far has taught you how easy it is to make a poor movie, how difficult it is to make anything other than a poor movie and has probably given you more respect for good movies but I don't think after just one short attempt you fully realise how difficult it is to make good movies.

The public generally has a superficial understanding of filmmaking, something along the lines of: Write a story, actors learn and then perform the story in bits, cameraman films these performances, some visual effects maybe created, editor stitches performances (and VFX) together, composer adds some music, finished film, job done. Then, the audience goes to the cinema, pays their money, watches the film and thinks meh, brilliant or somewhere in between and concludes that: A good film is good because these steps have been executed competently, a brilliant film is brilliant because these steps have been executed particularly well and a meh film is meh because these steps have been executed incompetently. It's a valid and logical conclusion based on the known facts, the problem is that those known facts are superficial facts, not the actual facts! The actual facts are countless times more complex, there are many times more steps and countless fine details. Far more fine details than any one person can ever learn and all it needs is for just one or two of those fine details to be slightly off and you've probably got a meh film. In practise, even making a meh commercial theatrical feature is expensive, extremely difficult and requires teams of experienced talented professionals. Many of the things we take for granted in our everyday lives are so complex that we just don't have time to understand most of it beyond an extremely superficial level. No one person can design a CPU for example, it takes teams of boffins and each team designs just one aspect of the CPU because even a genius only has the time/capacity to learn all the fine details of one or two aspects of CPU design and of course the CPU is itself only one of the many components in a computer. Computers are relatively cheap, almost ubiquitous and so we largely take them for granted. We expect them just to work well, usually without considering the fact that just to work at all is a hugely expensive and complex miracle of modern science/technology requiring millions of man hours and countless geniuses. Filmmaking is maybe not quite as complex but the same basic principle applies, the public takes for granted the availability of good films, never really being aware of the hundreds of thousands of man hours or levels of knowledge and skill required to produce even a meh commercial film. One often sees comments on IMDB such as "how is it possible to make such a bad film?" or "the worst film I've ever seen!" when discussing well budgeted films, made by competent experienced professionals.

Becoming a filmmaker requires delving into those rabbit holes of complexity which exist beyond that superficial public understanding and many of those rabbit holes are virtually endless. I'm not trying to put you off filmmaking, quite the contrary, I'm trying to give you realistic expectations of what is achievable, without which you are very likely to become despondent and give up, even though in reality you might have the potential to be a good filmmaker. It's not realistic to expect to turn out a great film on your second attempt at making a short, even with decent funding which is itself unrealistic! Depending on what you consider "great" to be, it might be unrealistic to ever expect to turn out a great film. That doesn't mean you can't learn a lot and enjoy yourself along the way! Your survival does not depend on you making a great film, so study and practise, be hard on yourself but be realistic, don't expect too much, too soon (based on a superficial understanding of filmmaking) and ... have fun!

G
 
As you can see, both APE and I are "traditionalists;" sound-for-picture (production sound and audio post) are among the last bastions of the "apprenticeship" "work-your-way-up" crafts in the film industry.
 
I'm not trying to put you in your place, I'm not trying to be confrontational at all!

Oh APE! Everybody thinks you're mad all the time. HAHAHAH

I'm just presenting information (which maybe only an opinion in some cases) learnt from my experience as a long time professional, which hopefully the OP and others may find useful. I'm frequently rather blunt and undiplomatic but that's one of the attractions for me in posting here, because in my daily working life I have to be extremely diplomatic all the time, even though being right at the end of the filmmaking process means that much of my work is dealing with all the mistakes/weaknesses made earlier in the filmmaking process. I've also personally found that there's usually a lot more to be learnt from an experienced professional who is not being diplomatic than from one who is, because being diplomatic essentially means fudging the facts, the truth and/or one's opinion.

This is kind of a fine line though. I'm generally not too rough in my criticism. I know what I go through to produce barely watchable crap. So it keeps me from being hard on others. But sometimes I find in some filmmakers' works, while they may lack polish, which I myself do, they have a style, they have a flow, they anticipated shots that are not obvious, implying that they thought about their film in a certain way. I recognize those things and then I don't worry about the polish of those filmmakers and I'm encouraging of those guys/gals, even if it isn't the greatest film, or doesn't have the greatest audio quality. Whose film in this part of the internet is/does? So when I'm encouraging, I'm not trying to be 'pat on the back for no good reason,' I'm actually responding to the kinship I feel.

Sometimes if I don't feel that kinship, I just don't respond. Other people are better at responding to those than I am.

I'm only responding to you in this case, because I feel that you feel, that some people (myself included) are not critical enough to the detriment of the filmmaker. I am aware of that. For my part, I don't think I'm doing that. I just don't see the need to point out things that I know some of these filmmakers will notice themselves, and beat themselves up over, after the initial euphoria of having finalized a creation is over.

But you're right. Some of us need a dash of the blunt criticism you're talking about.

With all due respect, you probably don't. Your experience so far has taught you how easy it is to make a poor movie, how difficult it is to make anything other than a poor movie and has probably given you more respect for good movies but I don't think after just one short attempt you fully realise how difficult it is to make good movies.

The above is a feeling that most amateur filmmakers I think have not felt yet. It's a sobering feeling. I'm trying to internalize that above concept everyday. Very nicely put.
 
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