What's the deal with costume design?

A

Aspiring Mogul

Happy new year, everyone.

I understand producers often hire a fashion designer to come up with uniforms as needed, especially for - you guessed it - sci-fi shows involving military organizations. Can anyone tell me anything about this, and are there any reference materials I can read? Thanks in advance for your help.
 
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What do you want to know? My knowledge is limited, though I'll help where I can. I'm sure others will too.

One thing, they usually work close with the Production Designer as it's a relatively important part of a larger puzzle.

While it's not Sci-Fi based, I do remember, Lord of the Rings has a behind the scenes video that goes into a lot of topics. One of those is costume design with Weta. If you hunt through others, you may find something closer to what you need.
 
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Hi, Sweetie.

I would like to know how a fashion designer fits in to the production process, and how critical he would be to the movie or series. I have started pre-production, and I'm wondering if I should get one for the space force uniforms.
 
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First of all, is a costume designer different from a fashion designer? If so, I'd say not very important as the costume designer is for the filming business and a fashion designer (I'd assume) is for models walking down a gangway, selling clothes?

Whether you need one depends on what production value you want and can afford.

Clothing does multiple things. It sets the look and feel of your characters. It can also help with color contrast which can go a mile in helping making shots more interesting, though, it's easy to piss away the benefit if the set design either blends in (in a bad way) or stands out (in a bad way).

Another benefit of getting an experienced costume designer in film is they'll know what to avoid for sound, and if they're good, know how to integrate sound into the outfits.

If you're shooting with VFX, there also may be considerations in wardrobe that need attention.

So your answer is: It depends.

Anyone else want to throw their two cents in?
 
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Called a costume designer, they come on during pre-production and
work with the director and production designer to come up with the
right costumes for the project.

If you don't bring on someone to design the costumes for your web
series who will do that job?
 
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If you want someone to simply pull items off a rack that could be
the costumer (or any random member of your team) and you don't
need a designer. Of course your costumes will look like someone
went to an army surplus store and purchased surplus army uniforms.
But if you want costumes unique to your series not only do you need
a designer but you need people to build the costumes.

You know what my answer to the “how much” question is;

You could find someone willing to do it for a flat fee of $100 to $500.
You could pay $10/hr. You could pay $25 to $40 per hour. Depending
on where you hire and the experience of the person you could pay
$300 to $400 per day. So (as usual) the answer is “It depends.”

Since you are now in pre-production I (again) suggest you sit down
with someone with experience to explore your options and the costs.
My offer still stands.
 
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Production Designers usually run the art department, which a costume designer reports to.

Costumes can be trademarked and owned by the original designer as well. That was something the show runners of Smallville became intimately aware of in bringing other super heroes onto Smallville, which is why in Season Ten, they had to buy the rights and costume from Superman Returns to use on Smallville.
 
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Reminds me of an old joke. While I don't remember all the details, the basics went like this:

A factory had been shut down for 2 days. Something was broken. They searched for 2 days to find the problem to no avail. They had no choice but to call in the manager which they had fired only a couple of years earlier. He came in, listened to what was wrong. Went directly to some obscure machine, took out his wrench and tightened a bolt and demanded $10000 for the job. The owner was outraged, $10k? Send me a bill that justifies $10k to tighten a bolt.

The invoice reads:
$10 Tighten bolt service
$9990 Knowledge to which bolt to tighten.

The point being, you may be able to tighten the bolt (Your costume) but do you know what the consequences of tightening the wrong bolt? It's the experience that comes with that position and the production value you need that determines whether you need that role to be filled or not. Here's a question for you to consider: Those outfits. Will they adversely effect sound to the point where you'll need to spend extra money doing ADR in post? There will be other concerns, but saving a penny early could potentially cost you more in the long run.
 
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I've paid $3,000 for one costume before. It depends on who you hire and their expertise. I bring them on during pre pro and work with them with concept designs. It's very helpful to start with a look book to assist in the process of getting the overall feel of the movie you are wanting.
 
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Aspiring Mogul said:
A suit can cost $500, so I would presume ten costumes would be |$5,000. I am looking for functional and effective, the sort of uniform used on a working-class vessel or station.
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Perfect ... That is, if you are looking to become an aspiring mogul in the shrimping business (Bubba Gump anyone?). However, you are presumably looking to become an aspiring mogul in the filmmaking business, hence why you're posting your question here and not on a commercial fishing forum. What you need therefore is not a uniform which is functional and effective for a working class vessel but a uniform which is functional and effective for filmmaking!

The reason a good costume designer charges say $500 a day is because filmmakers are willing to pay them $500 a day, and the reason filmmakers are willing to pay them $500 a day is not because they have unlimited budgets but because they have limited budgets and paying a good costume designer $500 a day is the cheapest option! IE. Not hiring a good costume designer is going to cost you more, either in terms of cash to pay more highly skilled personnel for longer in post or in terms of lower production values, and most likely both! As an "Aspiring Mogul" you need to be able to identify an appropriate level of production value and achieve that level with a budget calculated to provide a profit, whatever "profit" might mean at this stage.

You seem to be asking essentially exactly the same question now as you were half a year ago and coming to the exact same erroneous conclusions, for exactly the same reasons. In other words, you haven't learnt anything and are going nowhere. You need to get out there making mistakes and learning from them AND you need to be sitting/working/chatting with experienced pros to learn about the mistakes you haven't yet made and the most efficient way of avoiding them. You don't appear to be doing either of these things, even though an experienced filmmaker has offered their help. Maybe it's time to change your username to "Aspiring Amateur"?

I know this all sounds harsh but I think you need someone to be harsh, to shake you out of your reverie and start learning what you need to know in order to stand any chance of being an actual aspiring mogul rather than just dreaming about it and using it as a forum username.

G
 
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Thanks for your answer, APE - I always appreciate the tough answers, because I have to face them.

AudioPostExpert said:
What you need therefore is not a uniform which is functional and effective for a working class vessel but a uniform which is functional and effective for filmmaking!
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Agreed. What I meant was that the viewers would see the uniforms as functional and effective. In other words, they get the impression the crew will be a working crew. As I write this, I am thinking very seriously as to whether the uniforms should also look "archaic", because the era I'm talking about would be the start of the true space age, when interstellar travel has just begun.


AudioPostExpert said:
You seem to be asking essentially exactly the same question now as you were half a year ago and coming to the exact same erroneous conclusions, for exactly the same reasons.
Click to expand...

When have I ever asked a question about costume design?


AudioPostExpert said:
In other words, you haven't learnt anything and are going nowhere.
Click to expand...

I've been asking questions for the better part of the decade, and, as Directorik will advise you, I have been doing a lot o work behind the scenes. Preproduction has begun, and filming will start at the end of this year or early next year.


AudioPostExpert said:
You need to get out there making mistakes and learning from them AND you need to be sitting/working/chatting with experienced pros to learn about the mistakes you haven't yet made and the most efficient way of avoiding them.
Click to expand...

Agreed, and, as I said filming will start soon.
 
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For both of my features, I hired a costume designer who had experience in the field on other features, but had always been #2 or 3 in the department. That way they had experience and knowledge, but were less expensive to hire than someone who had lots of experience as the top person in the department.
 
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Aspiring Mogul said:
When have I ever asked a question about costume design?
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I didn't say you'd asked exactly the same question before, I said you'd asked; "essentially exactly the same question". You asked in a previous thread how much it would cost to shoot a scene and the answer is anything from virtually nothing to hundreds of thousands. You kept trying to pluck figures out of the air rather than arriving at a figure specifically calculated to produce a certain result; profit, experience or whatever. You appear to have done exactly the same with your question about costume design and plucked a figure out of the air ($5k for 10 costumes) rather than actually calculate a figure based on a required result. Your costumes/costume dept could again cost anything from virtually nothing to hundreds of thousands. $5k may indeed be an appropriate budget for costumes or it maybe far too high or far too low, depending on what you want to achieve and how you want to achieve it. Sweetie also pointed out another complication; that decisions on costumes, like many other film department decisions, have consequences beyond the obvious and if under budgeted or poorly planned frequently ends up costing far more in the long run.

You could of course just go with your plucked out of the air figures for costumes and indeed for other departments and for entire the project itself. This approach could be extremely successful and see you well on the way to becoming a mogul! The reality is though that you're just dreaming because the chances of success taking this approach is approaching lottery odds.

Aspiring Mogul said:
As I write this, I am thinking very seriously as to whether the uniforms should also look "archaic", because the era I'm talking about would be the start of the true space age, when interstellar travel has just begun.
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"Thinking very seriously" about what something should look like is of course a valid and important decision. However, it's neither valid nor important if that decision is taken in isolation! The design of costumes, like the design of the sets, the sound or indeed the design of any component for any product, must encompass not only the aesthetics and functionality of the costumes themselves but how those aesthetics and functionality will perform with the other components of the film/project/product. An experienced (and good) costume designer is therefore not just about the level of imagination and costume creativity they posses but also about how specific costume decisions affect the other filmmaking departments and a good costume designer should provide the director/production designer not only with options but with the wider filmmaking advantages and disadvantages of those options. This is why a director is required, to provide an aesthetic frame of reference and then balance the practicalities of individual department decisions against the decisions and requirements of all the other departments. This is also why a producer (or team of producers) is required; to set a budget, raise the funds, manage expenditure and create a fiscal frame of reference to allow for specific aesthetic and practical frameworks which are calculated to achieve a specific goal/end result. Amateur filmmakers are not generally concerned with any of this, they are generally concerned with the filmmaking process itself and usually have only vague or no goal/end result except for completing that filmmaking process.

Your questions, presumptions and conclusions still indicate an aspiring amateur approach to filmmaking, not an aspiring mogul approach! No different in essence from the situation many months ago.

G
 
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An aspiring amateur can also be an aspiring mogul - the two are not mutually exclusive.

In any case, you gave a valid point, but I did not pluck a figure out of the air. I said a suit can cost $500, so I would presume making ten space uniforms, assuming nothing complicated, would cost $5,000 - it's a simple multiplication process.

Your other point, APE, that these decisions have to be made in concert with the team, is also correct, but, before I talk to the team, I must do my homework, and that means having some idea about costume design. I am supposed to meet Rik and a few others later this year, and I want to get an idea of the overall process, which is why I have been asking questions.

With that in mind, and, reading what you and the others have written, here are my thoughts. The uniforms should look functional and militaristic. Because the series represents the start of the interstellar era, I am also wondering if they should look "archaic", with a 1950's space ranger look, because the later eras would be more modern.
 
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Aspiring Mogul said:
An aspiring amateur can also be an aspiring mogul - the two are not mutually exclusive.
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What leads you to that conclusion?

Aspiring Mogul said:
... I did not pluck a figure out of the air. I said a suit can cost $500, so I would presume making ten space uniforms, assuming nothing complicated, would cost $5,000
Click to expand...

Basing the cost of the costumes you need on the fact that a suit can cost $500 is plucking a figure out of the air! A space costume could cost $50, more than $5,000 or anywhere in between, how did you arrive at a figure of $500?

Aspiring Mogul said:
... it's a simple multiplication process.
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Yes it can be, just maybe not in the way you think! For example spending $500 per costume for 10 costumes is a simple ten times multiplication. Then the cost of professional quality ADR for your whole film due to noisy costumes, a further simple multiplication process of say times two or maybe there's some interaction of the costume material with the lighting or set, that could result in a simple multiplication process of 10 new costumes and another shooting budget!

If you want a ball park figure to start with, why don't you find a local costume designer and take them out for a coffee or beer and pick their brains for a few minutes or why not ask Rik if this is something you should be doing your homework on or if you're wasting your time because it's part of the purpose of your meeting/s?

G
 
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