I get it.
You're referring to films you have only ever heard of.
What about the ones that haven't made it to the top yet? That's what I'm talking about.
I'm talkin' bout the bigfoots and unicorns.
Happy Sunday. Go Warriors.
What's Stopping the Revolution?
- Thread starter Cracker Funk
- Start date
I get it.
You're referring to films you have only ever heard of.
What about the ones that haven't made it to the top yet? That's what I'm talking about.
I'm talkin' bout the bigfoots and unicorns.
Happy Sunday. Go Warriors.
There is still an underground.
There is still a ton of music that never gets the airplay it deserves.
About 6 producers dominate the western music charts since 1998 as they write and produce the songs for the stars they created. Most radiostations are now owned by only a few large companies, which often also own the large labels.
There is luckily still room for discoveries, but there is no automatic machine that turns every great song into a hit.
And luckily there is still an underground and fortunately it is just not as obscure as it used to be in the days of tape trading crappy sounding 7th generation demos of poorly produced metal bands.
So, changes that a song gets picked up have increased, because underground isn't in the total dark anymore, but decreased because of the immense amount of songs being released and the almost monoculture on the radio (when it comes to pop music).
15 Years ago the change of scoring a hit in The Netherlands as an outsider was bigger than it is now. Back then there was an interactive TV station only broadcasting musicvideos that were requested by the viewers through an SMS service.
This was the big break for Within Temptation, because their single Ice Queen finally got momentum 1 year after it's release. The station doesn't exist anymore: MTV bought it and closed it down: probably too democratic?
At the moment there are a lot of talent shows looking for voices that can mostly do great karaoke of trusted hitsongs: just more of the same.
Do you know January?
Their record 'I heard myself in you' is so amazingly beautiful it should have been a massive hit.
It should be one right now.
But the album is sold out, the label doesn't exist anymore, the band disbanded and it is close to impossible to find more than a few tracks online. Ok, it is from 2000, so it was still different back then.
Why hasn't Anathema scored a massive hit yet?
The songs are there on Weather Systems or Distant Satellites.
They where even there in the '90s on Alternative 4 and Judgement.
There older records require a more 'acquired taste' as that is not radio friendly death doom metal, so yeah, I understand they only made name in the metal scene. But now... if every potential hit would become a true hitsong: they should have scored big in the past few years.
Or maybe my taste is just weird
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWmCxKptGtU
https://youtu.be/ZcTS0tJTiLc?t=2560
If it were only true that great art rises automaticly: that would be amazing
We need to dig to find new gems.
We need to shine to make others find our gems.
It can be done, but it will take effort.
Yeah, I believe it..one or two..three- fall through the cracks yearly. Like innocent people on death row I'm sure they exist..but thousands? A stunning amount of high-quality independent films fail? Noooo..
Here's another example..a film with incredible special effects that no one's heard of? Not even a great film in any other way but great effects? What about Star Wars? If Star Wars was made by a dozen people without major studio backing or good acting (lol) would it have been seen by everyone?
Whoa there cowboy! Hold your horses. No need to throw unclaimed accusations around
The technology has been here for more than a decade. If it was going to happen, don't you think the revolution would have already happened? What are we waiting for? A future where people to be carrying a TV in their pocket? Hasn't that already happened? Maybe enough people don't care?
What pieces aren't yet available? What's holding this revolution back?
Is it all just wishful thinking?
What is this revolution? Please tell me it's more than Youtube and Facebook like services.
Yeah I guess that's true.
There is still an underground.
There is still a ton of music that never gets the airplay it deserves.
Why hasn't Anathema scored a massive hit yet?
The songs are there on Weather Systems or Distant Satellites.
They where even there in the '90s on Alternative 4 and Judgement.
There older records require a more 'acquired taste' as that is not radio friendly death doom metal, so yeah, I understand they only made name in the metal scene. But now... if every potential hit would become a true hitsong: they should have scored big in the past few years.
Or maybe my taste is just weird
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWmCxKptGtU
https://youtu.be/ZcTS0tJTiLc?t=2560
If it were only true that great art rises automaticly: that would be amazing
We need to dig to find new gems.
We need to shine to make others find our gems.
It can be done, but it will take effort.
Um..WalterB, I think you might have..bad taste? I was listening to both Anathema albums. It's not great music..at all..just big production, a lot of noise but..not good, just OK..but they do have many a YouTube views and a fan base? There you go.
I forgot they'll be people who have bad taste. I should factor that in.
That's not what I'm saying at all. I never said you need to 'borrow elements'. Indeed, to take that statement to it's natural conclusion, you can look to films like Transmorphers or even a Sharknado.
I pose the question without really knowing what the answer is. What is going to make your film stand out from the pack and get noticed? I say it as it used to be a great script and relatively well-known actors who you've enticed over based simply on how great your script is.
But it's more than that. Just doing that is simply not enough. And at the same time, depending on the movie, isn't necessary at least when we're talking well-known actors.
So what is it? What is it that's going to make your film stand out? Is it a killer marketing plan? Is it a killer original concept? Is it making the right connections?
What's going to make your film catch the ire of someone who matters - or catch the ire of an audience who can help you make some money from your endeavour?
Depends. If you're trying to feel good about yourself and motivate yourself, sure. I'm talking about when you're making your masterpiece. When you've got films that have killer original concepts, killer scripts, well known actors and great marketing plans that bomb at the box office. What is it about your film that's going to be different?
I'm not saying 'hey your film is going to be shit'
I'm saying think about it. What does your film offer that's different. What can you do that will set it apart? Why has no-one heard of Green Room but The Purge went gangbusters at the box office. Why is Beasts of the Southern Wild more known than, say, Short Term 12 or Fruitvale Station?
Why did Monsters land its Director onto Godzilla and Star Wars? Especially when it took a total of $20,000 on its opening weekend?
Of course.
But keep these things in mind, and use them to develop your plans.
Should you submit to Cannes or Sundance or LA Film Fest, or should you just put your film on YouTube? Why? The most successful films have some sort of post-film plan. I fear that too many get caught up in the actual making of the film, that they don't put enough, or any, thought into what they'll actually do with it.
--
On the 'revolution' I think it's interesting in that the 'revolution' of digital has really brought about phenomena such as YouTube stars.
It's interesting to me, when YouTube first came out and there were extremely talented filmmakers using it as a distribution platform. Back then, you could have said that YouTube will be the next big film distribution platform and give a voice to independent filmmakers and a platform to get noticed.
And sure, it is that to some extent. But it's a much bigger platform for those who like to scream at the camera, play video games, be mildly funny or ironic, and/or simply give their thoughts to hundreds of thousands of people. If you'd asked me back then whether I thought the technical prowess and great storytelling that was on YouTube would make the most money, or people talking at a camera being mildly funny/ironic and appealing to teenagers, I would definitely not have said the latter.
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That's actually precisely my plan. I'm going to attempt to become a YT celebrity so that when I finally have my next feature -- BOOM, built-in audience. Needless to say, it ain't gonna be easy to pull that off. I'm also gonna do my darndest to recruit a particular YT celebrity to take part in the movie, for the same obvious reason. Not gonna tell ya who, cuz I don't want nobody to steal them (there's a couple I'm interested in).
So, first of all, I appreciate your contributions to this conversation. And I do realize that your intent is positivity, by encouraging people to not make any compromises and just make a superb film. That's good advice.
My comments are more to say that I feel like the way you're phrasing things is leaning towards cynical. Also, since you're new here, I don't think you're aware of the fact that this is actually a very small online community you just entered. The majority of us on here have developed relationships. We know each other and know what to expect from each other. At least, as much as you can know somebody online. Anyway, what I'm getting at is that we generally don't respond well to newcomers being confrontational towards any of the long-time residents. We may not always agree with each other, but we generally will rally around each other. A few years ago, I learned that the hard way, haha.
But welcome to the community. Stick around, I think you'll like it here.
Oh my God, I can't believe I'm about to do this, and I'm not even drunk. I'm probably going to regret this, but here goes nothing.
APE, I know you well enough to know that you're not a troll. You're on IT to engage in intelligent discussion over the craft that we all love, and if you can educate some people along the way, even better.
But dude, your comments in this thread are rather trolly. In your comments above you didn't include a single iota of actual information or even opinioned discourse. All you've done here is call me a mediocre filmmaker with pie-in-the-sky dreams that will never come true. That's a little insulting, and I'd prefer that you refrain from doing that in the future.
The main problem with you telling me I'm doing things wrong is that you know nothing about my personal life and how that applies to my filmmaking. If I wanted to do things the traditional way, sure, I could move to Hollywood, get a job as a PA, work my way up the ladder and make connections, yadda yadda. Or, maybe it would be a good idea to focus all my energies on the skill that I've proven to be very skilled at - editing.
But I'm personally not interested in either of those pursuits. I like my job. I'm comfortable with the life I'm living. I have no interest in cutting my pay in half to become a PA. I'm 40 years old, and I like my life. I also do not particularly enjoy editing. Just cuz I'm good at it that don't mean I enjoy doing it. I'm really good at math but math is boring as shit.
Point being -- should I end up retiring as a career restaurant worker who never made the transition from amateur filmmaker to professional, I'd be fine with that. For me, personally, it's all or nothing. Either I get "discovered", like Lena Dunham or the Duplass Bros., or I'll be perfectly happy making films that don't turn a profit. You wanna why? It's a lot of fun!
So, tell me, if you think I'm doing it wrong, what's the correct path I should follow? Be specific.
So, first of all, I appreciate your contributions to this conversation. And I do realize that your intent is positivity, by encouraging people to not make any compromises and just make a superb film. That's good advice.
My comments are more to say that I feel like the way you're phrasing things is leaning towards cynical. Also, since you're new here, I don't think you're aware of the fact that this is actually a very small online community you just entered. The majority of us on here have developed relationships. We know each other and know what to expect from each other. At least, as much as you can know somebody online. Anyway, what I'm getting at is that we generally don't respond well to newcomers being confrontational towards any of the long-time residents. We may not always agree with each other, but we generally will rally around each other. A few years ago, I learned that the hard way, haha.
But welcome to the community. Stick around, I think you'll like it here.
On your first point that is correct about what I said, why shouldn't people do their best.
On the first part of your second paragraph about being cynical, that is merely your opinion. However I showed how I believe there is a historic process whereby superb films eventually rise. Plus the fact that I think there are some digital features which will be discovered. These are the main paradigms which I stated that affect this issue. They are both positive. It's your own tone which is cynical without any actual response to these affirmative optimistic processes I stated previously.
On the main point of your second paragraph and your post: I was attacked out of the blue as a troll, which is what that itself was. I ignored a few more insults trying to bait me, opposite of accusation which applied to the accuser. Then others were called to join in the bullying and banter. I still kept silent despite more personal attacks. Finally I pointed out to the person who called me a fool again out of the blue what a fool is. The attacks got worse. Another joined in. Then it was demanded I should be banned. When this didn't work, the attacks continued. Then I was accused of being a banned member. The other one also threatened me with being banned. And so on.
Now you did not object to any of this. You did not welcome me. You carried on as though nothing was wrong. All it takes for evil to triumph a they say, is for good people to remain silent. But you're not silent anymore. You're saying this is our little town, and we are a few who have things going on for a long time. So if someone new is attacked out of the blue, and bullied and harassed even if not responding, then accused falsely, ridiculed etc etc that is how we do things around here in this little town. I don't think so pal. First of all most are not like your old buddies, nor like you in your way of thinking. They don't like this ole way of doing things as your Klan claims. They did not join in. So that's false. Secondly even if everyone did join in the above list of ill behaviour, there will always be some who will stand up to your immoral way of doing things. Like I said, you want to make a good film, be good first. This white washing of your good ole ways of doing wrong things, is actually worse than those who do it. Some like me will not take immoral behaviour from others, be they coarse or silver tongued in justifying it as their way. Frankly I prefer the other two who come out stabbing from the front, I do mean that.
Finally about your belated welcome prefixed with a but, thanks.
Have a good week pal.
Frankly, I didn't see the attacks that you keep mentioning. But it's also true that I'm not on here all the time and I don't always read every single post line-for-line. I'll do my best to re-read this thread to see if I can understand where you're coming from in those regards. Other than that, I feel like you and I are on the same page. And my welcome wasn't prefixed with a "but". The prefix was more intended to let you know how best to fit in with the folks here. The welcome was 100% sincere.
(also, we have a section specifically dedicated to welcoming people, and that's typically where we do our welcoming)
Sorry, dude. I just re-read the thread, in its entirety. Which, by the way, I really didn't want to do. I did it for you. I'm afraid I see none of the personal attacks that you feel you were subjected to. There was also no threat of a ban. I believe the reference to the bloke who got banned a couple months ago was more of a prediction than an insinuation. As in, dude, if keep going down these roads, you're going to get banned. It was a warning. Just like I tried to warn you that if you want to fit in here, you might want to increase your chill factor by 1000%. Chill, dude, there is no conspiracy against you. I assure you, you'll be more than welcome here, but only if you cool it down. I'm speaking from personal experience, BTW.
Okay, so I just noticed this. Skipped over it before, only noticed it now because I told the new dude I'd re-read the thread.
Wait, so APE, you're telling me I can't do what I want to do because of a figure of speech? I realize that English isn't your first language, but surely, you must know that when people say "dream the impossible", they don't literally mean "impossible". I'm saying aim high, shoot for the stars, and maybe you'll hit the moon. But since you apparently don't do well with figures of speech, allow me to be explicit.
Every person on the planet who has done something fantastic first started by dreaming about doing something fantastic. I GUARANTEE that when Michael Jordan was a child, he didn't dream of maybe becoming good enough at basketball to maybe earn a college scholarship. No, he dreamed of becoming the greatest basketball player of all time. Because that big dream is necessary to making it happen.
I'm pretty sure I get where APE is coming from, and I don't think he's saying you're not allowed to dream big. I believe what he's saying is that there's a big difference between Michael Jordan's pipe dream of wanting to be the best basketball player ever, and actually making that happen.
In Wikipedia-ing MJ, I found this, which I think illustrates the point perfectly:
I think APE's point is he's saying 'look unless you're (x) tall, you're probably not going to get onto the team'. I think his frustration comes from people saying 'yeah, but here's a list of people who weren't that tall that went on to be great basketball players'.
APE's saying if you want to get onto the team without being that tall, you're going to have to work and train really hard and prove your worth in the junior varsity squad.
He's saying 'hey here's some of the hurdles you're going to need to overcome' and some hit back with responses akin to 'surely if I just play that one game of basketball, everyone will notice me and I'll immediately be put on the NBA?'
P.S. I'm not saying you specifically CF
Just, you know - in general 
First of all, Jax, you're cool. No need for the disclaimer at the end there.
Frankly, though, I have no idea how you feel like you know where APE is coming from. In this thread all he has done is argue about the semantics of the word "impossible", and call me a mediocre filmmaker with dreams that will never come true.
But he's never said you probably won't make the team if you're not tall enough. He has always said you WILL NOT make the team if you aren't tall enough. I have said that you probably won't make the team if you aren't tall enough, but that shouldn't stop you from trying. He rejects optimism while offering no alternatives.
So, what's the plan of action, APE? Knowing that I'm not interested in becoming a PA or a professional editor, how does somebody like me break into Hollywood? Be specific.
Frankly, though, I have no idea how you feel like you know where APE is coming from. In this thread all he has done is argue about the semantics of the word "impossible", and call me a mediocre filmmaker with dreams that will never come true.
But he's never said you probably won't make the team if you're not tall enough. He has always said you WILL NOT make the team if you aren't tall enough. I have said that you probably won't make the team if you aren't tall enough, but that shouldn't stop you from trying. He rejects optimism while offering no alternatives.
So, what's the plan of action, APE? Knowing that I'm not interested in becoming a PA or a professional editor, how does somebody like me break into Hollywood? Be specific.