What's a nice n' cheap digi for a novice?
- Thread starter gummo3434
- Start date
So you want to know what camera to get?
How will you edit?
If its VHS tape deck to VHS tape deck, you can probably pick up a vhs camcorder off ebay or a pawn shop for way under 100.
If you have a computer with a capture card, VIVO, or firewire, then get a mini-dv camcorder. You can get one brand new even for around 200.
If you want more specific advice than that you'll have to tell us what you want.
How will you edit?
If its VHS tape deck to VHS tape deck, you can probably pick up a vhs camcorder off ebay or a pawn shop for way under 100.
If you have a computer with a capture card, VIVO, or firewire, then get a mini-dv camcorder. You can get one brand new even for around 200.
If you want more specific advice than that you'll have to tell us what you want.
I need a digital because, One: I'm too lazy for VHS editing and two: I want to shoot in DOGMA 95.
And that says to shoot on consumer cams.
I need one in my family's price range, I'm 15 and have been making movies for about 3 years, 300 to 450 is about as far as we can go right now.
And that says to shoot on consumer cams.
I need one in my family's price range, I'm 15 and have been making movies for about 3 years, 300 to 450 is about as far as we can go right now.
lux said:
Might you elaborate a little on that thought?
I've always been a " story > all " person... and stripping a production to its essentials of story & acting has always sounded pretty good to me.
Obviously, having a hefty budget with elaborate sets & other luxuries will make for a lusher presentation... but that means nothing if the story (and the people who can present it) are never there to begin with.
What changes to the Dogme 95 would you like to see?
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To get back on track to the OP, though...
No, that is not correct.
Here are the original basic criteria for it.
- Shooting must be done on location. Props and sets must not be brought in.
- The sound must never be produced apart from the image or vice-versa.
- The camera must be handheld. Any movement or mobility attainable in the hand is permitted.
- The film must be in colour. Special lighting is not acceptable.
- Optical work and filters are forbidden.
- The film must not contain superficial action.
- Temporal and geographical alienation are forbidden.
- Genre movies are not acceptable.
- The film format must be Academy 35mm.
- The director must not be credited.
There has been a few changes to it (ie: 35mm Academy only & an exception to the lighting), but nowhere does it say that it must be done on a consumer camcorder.
I don't have any recomendations on a digital camcorder in your pricerange (though I did pick up a new Sony DCR-HC20 for $300 several months back... handy for family gatherings)
...though I would say that if you have stories good enough to tell, that if VHS editing is the only method you have for editing in the end... being "too lazy for VHS editing" isn't going to get you far. There is a lot of work involved, even in digital editing.
_______
I don't want to sound like a downer... but if you have the drive to tell a story as a filmmaker, you'll get it done no matter what tools (advanced or basic) are available to you.
Zensteve said:
i cant say i have all the answers otherwise it wouldnt be Lars von Trier talking about dogme but i just dissagree with the idea of creating any kind of rules with a creative form of expression such as film. what would happen if everyone did it their way? it would be fun for a while but i feel its too restricted. still the idea of getting away from the norm is great and id much rather see that then another terminator sequal.
Mostly what I was saying is that I HAVE NO CAMERA.
No cameras are in my household, Not even a crap one.
So, I've only used ones I had at a film class and at my friends house.
I would like a more experienced person to give me a idea on what is good for shooting period, Not really Dogma 95, Although I am in the brainstorming phase on a Dogma 95 type script right now.
If there is anyone who can give me a website or reccomend ANYTHING AT ALL, That would be awesome.
I like the comments on the Dogma 95 code, But it's pointless to argue about it.
Just watch Julien Donkey-Boy, That's so perfect of a movie. It think it's Dogma 95's best.
Don't hate me. It's just my take on things, I know I'm gonna get some hater saying stuff, but whatever.
No cameras are in my household, Not even a crap one.
So, I've only used ones I had at a film class and at my friends house.
I would like a more experienced person to give me a idea on what is good for shooting period, Not really Dogma 95, Although I am in the brainstorming phase on a Dogma 95 type script right now.
If there is anyone who can give me a website or reccomend ANYTHING AT ALL, That would be awesome.
I like the comments on the Dogma 95 code, But it's pointless to argue about it.
Just watch Julien Donkey-Boy, That's so perfect of a movie. It think it's Dogma 95's best.
Don't hate me. It's just my take on things, I know I'm gonna get some hater saying stuff, but whatever.
Nobody is a hater here. This is not those other forums.
Maybe my old philosophy is best in this situation: for right now, buy a low end firewire mini-dv. Any one you pick up will serve you fine. There are many on the market for less than 400, some less than 300, you might get one on sale or off ebay for under 200. Practice, practice practice. You have a lot to learn on that little cheap minidv camera - Lighting, framing, camera movement, tripod usage, exposure, focusing, etc.
When the day comes when you are better than that little camera, you'll be ready to upgrade to a more serious piece of machinery. THAT might be a 3 chip like a GS-400, VX1000, 2000, 2100, or maybe you'll go all the way to DVX100 or GL2 or XL2. Or maybe High def will be norm then.
The point is, dont jump in head first into equipment purchases which you dont need at this point. Get Mini-Dv, with firewire. Any one of them should serve the purpose. When you finally need to get more out of a camera than what you have youll be ready to buy a more expensive camera. And then you'll know what you want and need in the way of features for a camera so choosing a model that suits you will be easier.
Maybe my old philosophy is best in this situation: for right now, buy a low end firewire mini-dv. Any one you pick up will serve you fine. There are many on the market for less than 400, some less than 300, you might get one on sale or off ebay for under 200. Practice, practice practice. You have a lot to learn on that little cheap minidv camera - Lighting, framing, camera movement, tripod usage, exposure, focusing, etc.
When the day comes when you are better than that little camera, you'll be ready to upgrade to a more serious piece of machinery. THAT might be a 3 chip like a GS-400, VX1000, 2000, 2100, or maybe you'll go all the way to DVX100 or GL2 or XL2. Or maybe High def will be norm then.
The point is, dont jump in head first into equipment purchases which you dont need at this point. Get Mini-Dv, with firewire. Any one of them should serve the purpose. When you finally need to get more out of a camera than what you have youll be ready to buy a more expensive camera. And then you'll know what you want and need in the way of features for a camera so choosing a model that suits you will be easier.
Well parents are always wrong, right? 
What did she suggest? Buying a good piece of equipment with probably a name brand like Sony? My mom and step father were that way, they overspent on almost every item they ever bought.
Just remember, what you produce won't look like what you see on TV until you have a lot of experience under your belt, and the higher end equipment. I made The Soup Party on quite possibly the first Mini-DV camera, or at least the first one Sharp ever made called the VL-DC1. I squeezed a lot of good stuff out of it for such an old camera but even still I had production flaws that I would never ever make again just because of inexperience. But overall I managed to squeeze some nice cinema out of it. Now I have a DVX100a, VX1000, VX2100, and a 16mm camera at my disposal as well as the VL-DC1. And learning as much as I did from the VL-DC1 has taught me how to properly use and squeeze cinema out of the other cameras. I walk out the other side of a production now with some terrific stuff, as I wanted it to be.
But if I had just picked up a DVX100a Im not sure I would have learned all the great tricks and techniques that I did by going the other route.
What did she suggest? Buying a good piece of equipment with probably a name brand like Sony? My mom and step father were that way, they overspent on almost every item they ever bought.
Just remember, what you produce won't look like what you see on TV until you have a lot of experience under your belt, and the higher end equipment. I made The Soup Party on quite possibly the first Mini-DV camera, or at least the first one Sharp ever made called the VL-DC1. I squeezed a lot of good stuff out of it for such an old camera but even still I had production flaws that I would never ever make again just because of inexperience. But overall I managed to squeeze some nice cinema out of it. Now I have a DVX100a, VX1000, VX2100, and a 16mm camera at my disposal as well as the VL-DC1. And learning as much as I did from the VL-DC1 has taught me how to properly use and squeeze cinema out of the other cameras. I walk out the other side of a production now with some terrific stuff, as I wanted it to be.
But if I had just picked up a DVX100a Im not sure I would have learned all the great tricks and techniques that I did by going the other route.
She wanted me to get another take onn things, I found one really nice camera on Amazon, I show it to my film instructor He said it was awesome for learning on.
We bought it and then I found out it was from some sketchy place in Romania.
So I here now, Getting a different idea on things.
We bought it and then I found out it was from some sketchy place in Romania.
So I here now, Getting a different idea on things.
Read this article I wrote about buying your first DV camera: Buying Your 1st DV Camera
If you're looking to buy on-line check out Reseller Ratings to make sure the seller is legit. If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is.
Scott
If you're looking to buy on-line check out Reseller Ratings to make sure the seller is legit. If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is.
Scott
You might be better off checking with your local cable access channel. Not sure if there is one near you or not but they usually have some really good cameras you can use for free or very low rent. The one in my city lets you use them for free as long as you take a two hour class on how to use them.
Might be worth checking out.
Mr. Spears, that's a nice article, thanks for sharing it.
Might be worth checking out.
Mr. Spears, that's a nice article, thanks for sharing it.
Awesome that you are starting out so young... I wish I had... Also, I have realitives in Bend. Small world.
I bought the Pannasonic GS-120 and it works fine. Although Low Light is a no no. There are others here that have the same one. It's inexpensive and has 3CCDs. I would suggest the GS-200 though, it has more functions especially a manual focus ring.
When ordering online, make sure you read the user raitings to make your decision. A lot of places are so cheap because they send you JUST THE CAMERA and nothig else... no battery, no charger, no nothing... I bought mine off of ebay from a place that had over 10,000 positive ratings... I figured that they've made a lot of people happy and you can't padd 10,000.
Good luck and let us know what you get...
I bought the Pannasonic GS-120 and it works fine. Although Low Light is a no no. There are others here that have the same one. It's inexpensive and has 3CCDs. I would suggest the GS-200 though, it has more functions especially a manual focus ring.
When ordering online, make sure you read the user raitings to make your decision. A lot of places are so cheap because they send you JUST THE CAMERA and nothig else... no battery, no charger, no nothing... I bought mine off of ebay from a place that had over 10,000 positive ratings... I figured that they've made a lot of people happy and you can't padd 10,000.
Good luck and let us know what you get...
A word to the wise: starting cheap is good, but don't shoot yourself in the foot. Make sure the camera you get has manual control for exposure, white balance, focus, etc. Otherwise you've bought a camera but won't be able to learn some of its most important functions, and you'll either a) end up buying another "cheapie" camera to learn those things or b) upgrade to a much nicer cam and have to learn them, meaning a lot of lost time just to learn stuff you should already know.
A manual focus ring and hotshoe and/or mic in jack (for decent audio) is also a bonus, but not as neccessary. Look for a cheap camera, but make sure it does what you need it to do (at least). Take a look at Digital8, as well... there are some good, cheap cameras available in that format, and they all have Firewire transfer, so no loss in D8.
Just no high end cams in that format, is all.
A manual focus ring and hotshoe and/or mic in jack (for decent audio) is also a bonus, but not as neccessary. Look for a cheap camera, but make sure it does what you need it to do (at least). Take a look at Digital8, as well... there are some good, cheap cameras available in that format, and they all have Firewire transfer, so no loss in D8.
Just no high end cams in that format, is all.
Only a handful of cameras support USB 2.0 transfer. And even fewer NLEs are set up to accept input from it.
But they are available and they are faster and they are the wave of the future so more will be coming out with USB 2 support.