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What makes a villain.... how can I say.... good.

Slugwriter

Slugwriter

Hey, IndieTalk. Slug here.

I was sitting at my computer, thinking, as so does so many of us often do. And I asked myself, what makes a good villain. The more people he/she kills? What evil deeds are done? The tragedies that each one go through in order to become who they are? Villains, whom at first were victims, are the ones we most commonly have connvection with. Cause everyone knows what it's like to be screwed and to feel pissed or angry.

I thought, what makes so many of the 007 villains great? What makes so many of them bad?

Apart of me thinks it's in the name! What the name represents, and relates with has a big thing to do with it. Also, what they're favorite hobby is. Or their goal in life. Or they're favorite little prop, or big prop.

I am currently storming up an idea about a script, of which revolves around a villain. And he hires a crew to document his every move as he attempts to take over the world. But the villain I want to use must be funny, somewhat insecure, but tries really hard to fit in. And beyond all these normal traits, he's evil. Likes to kill and wants to take over the world. Hench, the title: Taking over the world!

Talk to me people :D
 
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I think that a good villain can be related to by a lot of people on a deep level, in a way that most people wouldn't want to relate. Like how everyone takes pleasure in something that society says they shouldn't, so they hide it. This isn't what the villain does, he understands the violence and perversion of human nature. That's more of a serious villain than a humorous one though. Maybe I've still helped a little.
 
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The look on his face when he does something evil!

Focus on his eyes, maybe his mouth while something evil is happening. His lips can tremble a little bit while a small smile appears on his face full of ecstasy, and his tongue can move just enough to see it. I think a real villain appears when evil is taking place.

If he's gonna be a funny, somewhat insecure villain even better, because you could show some kind of surprise on the crew's faces when they see how he enjoys evil, how his eyes focus on the pain, or death, or destruction and how he gets consumed by a feeling of delight with it.

Sarah
 
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The audience understands them, and the villain is the hero if the story were told from their pov.

The most interesting example is THE JOKER from DARK KNIGHT. He *appears* to be crazy. But we understand that he is an anarchist - his plan is to remove all plans and see what happens. He is doing this because he believes it is the right thing to do, or at least the most interesting thing to do.

When you have a villain who really is crazy and impossible to understand, and who is doing things just because they are evil, we tend to see them as cartoons rather than real people. We don't believe in them, so we don't fear them. They are fake.

- Bill
 
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A great villain for me is a flawed/damaged, psychologically unhealthy and vengeful/grudge-holding mirror of the protagonist/hero.

The villain should equal or be greater in strength than protagonist/hero and have no problems with playing dirty or going into the darker places. The villain should also believe firmly, like the protagonist/hero, that they are in the right and they have the best plan or design for themselves and/or society - they just shouldn't be evil for evils sake (as all actors will tell you that does not make for a worthy character). The villain should match the protagonist's/hero's desire and need to achieve their side of the conflict and force the stakes to go higher and higher moving the story along, forcing action/reaction and making the decisions harder and grayer until we reach critical mass.

In the end it's the villain's psychological frailty, overestimation or overplaying their hand that is their Achilles heel and why the protagonist/hero triumphs over them.
 
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A villain has to have an attitude. Alot of villains have different personalities, but they all do something similar to eachother such as blind siding someone or maybe come off as a "truthful nice guy" but in the end is shown for what they really are. I also like changing a good guy into a villain, always is a twist but it has to be done right and vice versa. I'd also say what makes a villain is the person who can play as the villain. If someone doesn't like to be the bad guy, and can't sell the personality, then that's going to make a big difference to someone who does like to be that guy.
 
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Context is important. In slugo's OP. He has a specific context, the megalomaniac take over the world thing.. thats one great context for villainy for sure. Im getting a sorta of DR. EVIL vibe...

But other context result in very different villains. Can anyone deny that "Hannibal Lecter" is a pure villain? But he is the opposite of a extroverted megalomaniac of Dr. Evil.

I think whats important is to allow the audience to have empathy for the villain. We can empathize with anyone if given the right information. Seems then that building empathy for the villain is no different then building empathy for the hero.
 
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In comedy empathy is often built by "misfortune without real suffering" to the character. "Ghost Town" the guy gets hit by bus right off, but no real pain because we see the character is "OK" though hes dead and a ghost..

Break it down to Saturday Morning Cartoons.. Willie Coyote gets pretty banged up, but we know hes not really hurt.. so its funny, but we still are on his side half the time, and hes a villain.

If you have "real suffering" then its irony or drama, but not comedy.
 
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A great villain to me, is one that I don't fully understand until the end of the movie.

The hero we follow along throughout, watching him grow and change. The villain is in a shroud of evil mystery, unexplored, maybe just hinted at until late in the second act--when a layer is pulled back and we can suddenly empathize with this guy we've been groomed to hate, misunderstand and root against. Maybe we have a nagging subconscious feeling that we'd be even more interested if he defeats the good guy and continues.

By the end, I think it's the most effective when there's a fight between two opposites that relate to the audience, and which one is going to overcome. The closer we are to darth vader, the more it will hurt when luke lays the smack down on him, even if we all along we've been rooting for the good side.

This is where for instance, the movie Avatar had me yawning. I can't relate to villains I understand within seconds of their introduction.
 
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A couple things...

Narcissism.

Everything is about him or done to him. "Well, she didn't say excuse me. What was I supposed to do?"
Some villains twist things to support their point of view, there's a single-mindedness, a strange unwavering commitment where thinks he's justified and therefore they are always right even when what they are doing is wrong.

Then there's ability to cheerfully do something awful. Think Mr. Blonde in Reservoir Dogs. He's having so much fun cutting off that guys ear he can hardly contain himself.

Then finally show frailty. In Batman, there is always a reason why they are the way they are. If your viewers can relate to the villain, that's pretty powerful.

-- spinner :cool:
 
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I think spinner is hitting a good point... my riff on that is that ALL CHARACTERS BELIEVE that they are good, doing the right thing etc. Just folks trying to get by the best they know how. Once your villain BELIEVES it, he wont do contradictory things like "try and get caught" or "twirl his mustache" He will do everything in his power to fulfill what he thinks is "right." The more "wrong" his "right" is, the more we love him.

I watched a BBC movie a few years ago that nailed this concept.. based on "He Knew He Was Right" 1869 novel written by Anthony Trollope. The guy is SO SURE he was "right" in his "wrong" thinking that the hero BECOMES a villain.
 
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Thank you everyone. This forum has jolted my mind and giving me a jumpstart. Lately my ideas have really been crappy.

But I had a mental travel onto another planet, and my thinking juices were flowing. That's when it hit me, and the very thing us writers fein for hit me square in the face. That great movie idea, that unlocks thousands of doors and lmitless opprotunities.

A Good Vs Evil Trilogy. Three separate movies, different people, different story.

Each one we explore the psychological war between a hero and villain. One more than the other.

so many things I could do with it. It's a screenwriters Orgasim. Imma explore it some more and make a thread!
 
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