I know what is done in pre-production (storyboards, script breakdowns, shot lists, scouting), but I'd like to know about the actual process, by which I mean who does what and in what order.
What is the pre-production process?
- Thread starter geniusvisionary
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I don't really need experience, I am planning to just learn about the production process, acquire funding, and write, direct, produce and star in my own full-length feature film.
Yes they have! Almost without exception though they have either: 1. Failed to acquire the funding in the first place, 2. Acquired the funding but failed to complete the film or in some exceptional cases, 3. Acquired the funding and completed a film with no commercial value.
G
Woody Allen writes, directs and stars in his own films. Even he's not silly enough to produce them too.
Warren Beatty was nominated for four Academy Awards for Best Picture, Director, Actor, and Screenplay for Heaven can Wait in 1978.
Why do you think it's a good idea to do all 4 roles? Any of those are hard enough on their own.
Now don't take this the wrong way, after reading this thread once again, I haven't seen anything to lead me to believe you can direct a film yet. I especially think you're going to struggle to produce a film. I cannot comment about your writing or acting abilities/value.
He's what I see happening. You get some financing. Inexperience in your directing or a mistake in your initial breakdown will cause a problem with production. It'll then kick in the producer in you to fix the issue, pulling you away from shooting your film. You go and fix the issue causing you stress. Then you have a fight with your investor since the delay in shooting is causing you to go over budget. You fly across the country to assure your investor everything is fine. You come back later in the day to direct but you're slightly rattled and your crew are impatient from sitting around waiting all day. You're running behind schedule and you're already in overtime for today. You cut a todays big scene a little short after you (think that you) nail the performance (you'll find out that your performance wasn't great - Your head just wasn't in the right place) you get a call from the editor informing you that you didn't complete yesterdays coverage. You need to finish that scene tomorrow as it's a key scene, so tomorrows schedule gets pushed. You get pulled into a production meeting again with the financiers and the bonding company. They're nervous that you're falling further behind schedule and need you to meet with them on a daily basis to update them on the schedule. This meeting pushes you further behind schedule. The accountant and production manager need to talk with you. Your overtime has caused the budget to go over and you need to sit down and reign in some costs. After 5 daily meetings, falling further and further behind after each meeting (since production must stop cause the lead actor and director go to the meeting, where only the producer is really required), causing more and more overtime, and going further over budget. The bonding company assumes control over your film.
Yeah, it's a little over dramatic. It's also unrealistic, but can you tell me where? I'll give you a hint, it's in the first line.
My point. Don't direct and produce at the same time. It's a sure fire recipe for disaster. Some ultra experienced veterans can do it, though even they tend to bring on a producer while production is occurring to allow the director to focus on the creative aspects of the film.
Writing and directing at the same time during pre-production may even cause you some undue stress. It may or may not become a problem and may or may not hurt the quality of your film.
Directing and acting at the same time. The only thing I'll say is: I hope you're experienced at both.
I had a local filmmaker decide he was going to do the same as you with one big difference. He was also going to operate the camera and refused to bring on a First AD. He asked me to get involved. At first I politely passed. He didn't understand how ludicrous he sounded and couldn't understand why I considered it both a waste of my time and a project doomed to fail.
I really do with you the best of luck and hope you prove us all wrong.
Stanley Kubrick, Ben Stiller, Wes Anderson, Christopher Nolan, Peter Jackson, and Judd Apatow, and M. Night Shyamalan have all successfully directed and produced their own films at the same time.
I always thought most filmmakers got their start on independent projects where they fill a lot of the key crew roles themselves.
It's a great way to start.
People are going to caution you against doing it. That's good. It's a good
thing to hear from different perspectives. Take what you read and make
you own choice. If your goal is the write, produce, direct and act then
I think that's exactly what you should do.
Have you finished the script?
This would make so much more sense if you were talking about a short film. Filmmaking is a beast and that's why you need so many collaborators for an average feature film. Even then, it's suggested that the people in key positions (even on an indie) have a respectable (subjective, I know) amount of experience. It sounds like you're describing this newbie, one-man-show feature film. You said yourself, you don't know anything about filmmaking. Setting yourself up for something that a lot of more experienced people would fail at is not a great way to start learning IMO. We're all here because this something we love doing and many of us would like to be successful at it (some already are). So we were also at some point clueless and got help along the way. Even if it sounds harsh, I think that's what everyone here is doing (trying to direct you to a more realistic path). You will learn a lot more from experience on short videos first than reading a ton of books. If you're willing and able to do both, you'll be in a better position to decide what big project you want to pursue and how to do it.
To say you don't need experience is true. It's possible to get this right on your first try!
But truly you increase your chances of failure by having no experience.
You increase your chances of SUCCESS by having experience, by having already made mistake and then learning from them.
Even if you're a genius visionary, "everybody falls their first time."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vlzKaH4mpw
But truly you increase your chances of failure by having no experience.
You increase your chances of SUCCESS by having experience, by having already made mistake and then learning from them.
Even if you're a genius visionary, "everybody falls their first time."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vlzKaH4mpw
There are two glaring problems with this list compared to your situation: 1. You propose not only being the Director and Producer but also the Writer and Star and 2. Would you say the filmmakers you have listed were as inexperienced as you when they directed and produced their films?
It would be easy to dismiss all our responses as just jealousy or some other form of internet negativity, in which case, you should do as Directorik stated; if you want to write a feature, start a ProdCo, get funding and fulfil all the other roles you've mentioned then go and do it!
G
A lot of the problems I described is because of financing. I guess you didn't have the experience to notice that. It's fine.
While I don't know the story behind most of those people on your list, I am somewhat familiar with Christopher Nolan and Peter Jacksons first films. They didn't receive financing for their films. The produced them on a shoestring budget, mostly (if not all) from their own pocket. Peter Jackson spent 4 years part time with his friends making his first film.
If you're not trying to get investors to invest in your film, go for it. Take on all those roles. When you bring on investors, you have a responsibility to them.
Taking on all those roles yourself *IS* possible, though when you start talking about gaining financing, it's a whole different ball park.
I want to encourage you to take on all those roles. Try it. I take on a lot of roles in what I make. I'm sure you'll end up seeing what I mean. Most people who try to produce swear they'll never do it again, others take to it like a fish takes to water. From what I can see, you're having troubles with some of the basics. I'd hate to see what happens when something more complicated comes along. There are very few people who are both left brain and right brain at the same time, which is usually what it takes to Produce, write, direct and act at the same time.
I suggest try creating a scene first, then see how you go with that. See if you worked out all the elements of making it work. All the pre-production. Did you have any production issues. Any Pre-Production issues. How did you go with deliverables? Did you have any issues with post production? Did the final product turn out like you envisioned? Where there hiccups along the way that you didn't anticipate?
If it goes well, try adding a scene or two. See how that goes. Then create a short. See how that goes. Ask all those questions again. The longer a production, the more logistics and more things can go wrong. While you're doing this, you're also building up your network.
Try another short. Maybe slightly longer or more complicated. If that goes well, see how you go for making a no-budget movie. Hell, if you knock the early stuff out of the park, you may get to make a financed studio film. It's happened before, and recently too.
Most people think it's simple to get financing to make a film. It's really not. Even if it's $100k (which is considered to be quite a small amount in filming terms), to put it into perspective, most people don't earn that in a year.
Look, I really do hope you get to make your movie. Go a prove us wrong.
Who knows? You may be a superbly talented writer, actor and director. If so, you may be able to skip some or all of those steps. Hell screw it, go and try to get financing now. See what they say. What's the worst that can happen??? (Remember, first impressions count. Don't burn those potential investors - They may be the ones who give you the money when you're ready for that step. If you ask them too early, are they ever going to be able to trust your judgement? Meh, who cares anyway? There's plenty of people in the world that finance films.... right?)
I know you're going to do what you want to do. There's nothing we can do to stop you.
Is there any other endeavor, that you can think of, you could do well successfully, continuously, without experience? Can you name any other job where it's not all dependent on just your genius, and your vision, (unlike painting, or being a solo musical act for instance), where how you deal with people, and how they react to you and your decisions, can sometimes be even more critical than your own personal talents, that you would readily say, "Yes, I can do this thing, not just well, and successfully so, but at the level of Kubrick, and without any experience?"
Why would you think filmmaking would be any easier than any other activity? There are huge levels of difference between shooting something in your backyard, or shooting something on a street, or shooting in a cafe, or shooting in your backyard well, or shooting on a street well, or shooting in a cafe well. And I am not even going to bring in post production (Edit: or the fridge in the cafe turning on and off and screwing with your sound).
I'll be the last person to tell you, you can't do it. I hate that. It drives me up walls. You can definitely do it. If other people can, so can you. But you have to start. You have to start somewhere to find out for yourself what this whole thing is about. There's the academic part, and the discussions and the ruminations, which you're doing now, which is fine, and necessary. But then there's the part where you go into action. How you do that well, can partly be learned through books and discussions, but you'll have to get into that water at some point.
The confidence you're showing is necessary, I believe. And it's great that you have it. Just don't let your confidence fool you.
I wrote the above with the best of intentions, and at no point am I trying to take you down a peg. I'm just telling you, what I would tell a member of my family. Keep the confidence, but keep you eyes wide open. Believe in yourself, but be ready to change your "belief system" the moment you see a flaw in it. But believe in yourself.
Cheers,
Aveek
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Christopher Nolan did have experience before making his first feature:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Nolan
Peter Jackson:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Jackson
(Note: both played around with video before they were teens!)
Stanley Kubrick:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Kubrick
M. Night Shyamalan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Night_Shyamalan
Ben Stiller
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Stiller
(apparently also toyed around with a camera before the age of 10)
Wes Anderson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wes_Anderson
(made shorts as a child)
Judd Apatow
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judd_Apatow
So, while I admire your enthousiasm, don't think the people you named had no experience at all when they made their first feature film.
They had no experience yet with making a feature, but they already worked on their skills for many years, making shorts and writing, etcetera.
Follow your heart!
Follow your bliss!
But don't fool yourself that your examples came out of the blue and were successfull. It only looks like that because before their breakthrough they were invisible for the mainstream audience. That's not the same as inexperienced.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Nolan
Peter Jackson:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Jackson
(Note: both played around with video before they were teens!)
Stanley Kubrick:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Kubrick
M. Night Shyamalan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Night_Shyamalan
Ben Stiller
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Stiller
(apparently also toyed around with a camera before the age of 10)
Wes Anderson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wes_Anderson
(made shorts as a child)
Judd Apatow
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judd_Apatow
So, while I admire your enthousiasm, don't think the people you named had no experience at all when they made their first feature film.
They had no experience yet with making a feature, but they already worked on their skills for many years, making shorts and writing, etcetera.
Follow your heart!
Follow your bliss!
But don't fool yourself that your examples came out of the blue and were successfull. It only looks like that because before their breakthrough they were invisible for the mainstream audience. That's not the same as inexperienced.
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So you're saying that I should start on smaller projects and then work my way up to feature films?
Look back in your life a count how many times you did things for the first time.
Was it a complete success?
Did you read literature in your first reading class?
Did you make a Rembrandt the first time you touched paint?
Making a film takes at least some skills.
Skills are developed by experience.
There is one great thing you can learn from the Lean Startup Method:
Fail fast, learn faster.
And I'll explain why:
you can pour all you have in making a feature.
You'll work on it for a year or years, because you have to learn it all while you do it.
And then in the end, when all pieces come together you really have to squeeze to make them, more or less, (seemingly) fit. Or worse you just pretend it fits together, while you now see what you could and should have done differently 1 year ago.
You blame yourself for a newbee mistake you thought you wouldn't make.
Or you make some shorter stuff to make all the obvious mistakes to never make them again.
In the meantime you gain experience and develop the skills you need for your feature.
And it takes less time from writing to editing, so you learn faster.
This is how the people in YOUR list pulled it off.
So you could say I'm also saying that your list of people who "done it before" is utter BS or dellusional at best.
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Yes!!! Start with a one or two page script and get your feet wet.
If you want something to watch and follow along on the process, I'd recommend Charles Band's "Cinemaker" set of DVDs.
I generally refer to it as "How not to be sued" but it goes into great detail about the pre-production process and has a lot of printable budget forms and other items that can be a real eye opener into the movie business.
It's a couple of decades old so the focus is on film rather than digital but that's not much of a hindrance.
Lots of great interviews with Producer/Directors like Corman and Pirro and Charlie keeps it entertaining throughout.
I just checked prices and the set is down to under $16 which is a pretty good deal for some info like this.
Plus at the end there's one of Charlie's crappy movies.
http://www.amazon.com/Cinemaker-Jared-Kusnitz/dp/B000K7CVKU
For that price it may be Book One stuff but it's worth a watch
I generally refer to it as "How not to be sued" but it goes into great detail about the pre-production process and has a lot of printable budget forms and other items that can be a real eye opener into the movie business.
It's a couple of decades old so the focus is on film rather than digital but that's not much of a hindrance.
Lots of great interviews with Producer/Directors like Corman and Pirro and Charlie keeps it entertaining throughout.
I just checked prices and the set is down to under $16 which is a pretty good deal for some info like this.
Plus at the end there's one of Charlie's crappy movies.
http://www.amazon.com/Cinemaker-Jared-Kusnitz/dp/B000K7CVKU
For that price it may be Book One stuff but it's worth a watch
There are no real right or wrong answers. A path that is great for one is not necessarily good for another.
Dov Simmens goes against this advice. He says that since short films have little to no commercial value, why make them. I'm sure people agree with this sentiment. It does make some sense. What's the likelihood that your first film will be good enough to be a commercial success is something you need to weigh up.
The learning curve. Some people are naturals at particular skill sets. From the questions you're asking, you're not a natural and that's ok. I've yet met someone in this industry that was a natural. The learning curve is fairly steep (at least it is for me). I'm finding that I'm learning very similar lessons from short projects compared to what I'm learning on longer projects, so when you're learning, to me is makes sense to shorten the learning curve and so shorter projects.
You have to work out what's best for you.