What is a Scene ?

Hello,

Okay, this may be a little silly, but the last scene in this short I am working on is rather long.
Here is the problem, the whole scene takes place in the woods, but there are a number of section
that could be broken down into scenes, there is the Parking Lot, The Walk, The Tent,The Hide, The Killer,The Get Away. all of these elements take place in one scene, but I want to be sure I have it organized well enough to execute with out much trouble, but also I don't want to over do it and turn it into a train wreck. This will be the climax of the film and the whole thing takes place rather quickly. The whole script is 25 pages and this scene uses 6 pages, however most of the 6 pages are description rather then dialogue. What suggestion do you have for handling this scene. I'd be interested in what you would have to say.

Thank You
John
 
Here is the problem, the whole scene takes place in the woods, but there are a number of section that could be broken down into scenes, there is the Parking Lot, The Walk, The Tent,The Hide, The Killer,The Get Away. all of these elements take place in one scene...
A scene is any part of the story that is shot in one location, in continuous time. Every time there is a change in location (even if it's just from one room to another) or a break in time, that is a new scene.

To take it a tad further, then a shot is an angle on the scene, and a take is a version of the shot.
 
Ok. I'm a bit confused here. Bear with me because I'm still trying to learn.

I'm currently reading Robert McKee's "Story: Substance, Structure, Style, and the Principles of Screenwriting" and he defines a scene in a way that is completely independent of location, despite the fact that many scenes often happen in one place.

He claims that a scene technically begins when some value is established and ends when that value has changed. So, for example, a scene begins when the good guy starts chasing the bad guy (or vice versa), and ends when the bad guy is either caught or gets away. If the bad guy is caught, the value that changes is the bad guy's freedom. If he gets away, the value that changes is the good guy's ability to do his job.

This makes sense to me, because I've seen hundreds of "chase scenes" in action movies where you only get 3 seconds of an actor jumping off of a fire escape, then 2 seconds running down the alley, followed by 4 seconds running across the street, then another 3 or 4 seconds running through a restaurant, another few seconds through the kitchen, then out through the back door and into another alley and so on.

Are all of these 3 or 4 second shots considered scenes because the location has changed? Or do screenwriters and filmmakers have different definitions for the same words? Can anyone clarify this for me?
 
Ok. I'm a bit confused here. Bear with me because I'm still trying to learn.

I'm currently reading Robert McKee's "Story: Substance, Structure, Style, and the Principles of Screenwriting" and he defines a scene in a way that is completely independent of location, despite the fact that many scenes often happen in one place.

He claims that a scene technically begins when some value is established and ends when that value has changed. So, for example, a scene begins when the good guy starts chasing the bad guy (or vice versa), and ends when the bad guy is either caught or gets away. If the bad guy is caught, the value that changes is the bad guy's freedom. If he gets away, the value that changes is the good guy's ability to do his job.

This makes sense to me, because I've seen hundreds of "chase scenes" in action movies where you only get 3 seconds of an actor jumping off of a fire escape, then 2 seconds running down the alley, followed by 4 seconds running across the street, then another 3 or 4 seconds running through a restaurant, another few seconds through the kitchen, then out through the back door and into another alley and so on.

Are all of these 3 or 4 second shots considered scenes because the location has changed? Or do screenwriters and filmmakers have different definitions for the same words? Can anyone clarify this for me?

Yes there are different discriptions about scenes etc. Importent is only that they are clearly identified as what they are, inside a production. I personally use the same terms as Citychick. Your 3 to 4 scenes I would call a sequence.

So:
A film constist of sequences.
Sequences constist of scenes
and scenes constist of shots. (Single RECORDED shots are takes.)

What you descirbed regarding the chase isn´t wrong. Scenes are stories themself. As film got more and more complex today is a need for something more than just shots, scenes and film. As their isn´t any scale between shots and scenes that I know of I adopted the sequence. You also can work with the classic terms but they were established as scenes were more or less dialogues at one location (also see the theater). By using the sequence as container of the substory, production gets more easy. You just have a better oversight of who has to be where and do what at wich time by giving the locations and times a name. This is specially true as today with digital equipment you can easyly take some shots instead of one and afterwords have more possibilities in the editingroom. Sometimes you even need lots of shots as today it isn´t entertaining enough to have two people talking in just two shots. Also a psychological pro is that with the sequence you get something done. It´s just depressing to work thrue 100 shots instead of 15 scenes.

Regards
 
Last edited:
I'm currently reading Robert McKee's "Story: Substance, Structure, Style, and the Principles of Screenwriting" and he defines a scene in a way that is completely independent of location, despite the fact that many scenes often happen in one place.

He claims that a scene technically begins when some value is established and ends when that value has changed. ... [snip]

I've seen hundreds of "chase scenes" in action movies where you only get 3 seconds of an actor jumping off of a fire escape, then 2 seconds running down the alley, followed by 4 seconds running across the street, then another 3 or 4 seconds running through a restaurant, another few seconds through the kitchen, then out through the back door and into another alley and so on.

Are all of these 3 or 4 second shots considered scenes because the location has changed? Or do screenwriters and filmmakers have different definitions for the same words? Can anyone clarify this for me?
Well, adding to what I wrote previously, and to what Xylofonic wrote, think about what the director and crew would have to do to shoot the sequence you described, which shows continuous action in discontinuous locations: fire escape, alley, street, restaurant, and so on. Each of those is gonna require a whole new set-up of lights, cameras, equipment, crew, actors, craft services. It may need 30 takes to get the guy jumping off the fire escape just right, and that could last all day or even two days (depending on what kind of production, ie. budget). Okay, so let's say everyone has spent two days shooting the action on the fire escape. The director and script super have numbered the scenes, and this one is Scene 1. They've blocked the set, taken pictures, done a ton of prep work before even shooting, and the script super has kept a log of notes on every take for the director and editor.

After those two days, they're in a different location to shoot the actor running down an alley. This might not even be anywhere near the fire escape, but they found an alley that looks just right. Again they have to set up lights, cameras, equipment, crew, actors, craft services, and do all the prep work for this location. And then they shoot it - should the script super refer to all the work on this day as still Scene 1 in the shot log? Or would'nt it be more logical (and make everyone's lives easier) to call these Scene 2? Then a week later they shoot the guy running through the restaurant. All new set-up and prep work. Maybe a day and a half of shooting. Still Scene 1? Although, yes, a good editor makes it all seem like it is one smooth continuous flow of action, and your mind believes that the guy really jumped off the fire escape, and ran down the alley and through the restaurant -- bing, bang, boom, one right after another -- it never happens that way during a production. What you perceive as one long scene is a sequence of scenes.

Now, for you as a screenwriter, you're not numbering the scenes, but you are adding the appropriate scene headings, such as EXT. CITY STREET - DAY, EXT. RESTAURANT - DAY, which accomplishes the same thing. Each time a character moves from one location (ie. walks from one room to another) or in time (ie., in the present having a conversation, then flashes back to a memory), you insert a new scene heading. And why do we call them scene headings? Because they delineate where a new scene starts! The point is that the screenplay not only tells a story but is a blueprint for what you will see on the screen. You have to spell it out, scene to scene.

Start to really watch a movie or television show just to identify where scenes begin and end. A sequence like what you described is a series of scenes knitted together, and what you the viewer REALLY sees starts with (for example): the man on the fire escape looking up from the ground, a view down the alley as a man runs past, a crowded restaurant as a man runs through -- it's not JUST a scene of a man running away from someone, but our brains put it all together and perceive it that way.

Make sense?
:)
 
Last edited:
Xylofonic and Citychick, thanks for taking the time to clear it up for me. Very helpful responses.

Citychick, my ability to both write and look at a screenplay objectively and practically has been brought to a whole new level based on some of the points you've made here. Invaluable.
 
Xylofonic and Citychick, thanks for taking the time to clear it up for me. Very helpful responses.

Citychick, my ability to both write and look at a screenplay objectively and practically has been brought to a whole new level based on some of the points you've made here. Invaluable.
You're welcome! Glad to be of help.
 
You're welcome! Glad to be of help.
Really great explanation, but I also have a nice quote from wiki (I believe) that states:

A scene consists of camera placement (INTERIOR or EXTERIOR), location and time of day. When anyone of those three elements change then the scene changes too.

A scene in my script where a boy comes back to the exchange office to return the excess money, but gets misunderstood, is kind of tricky on scene and take numbers during a production stage.

Throughout the script I have established TWO INTERIOR locations corresponding to ONE EXTERIOR, since the exchange office has ONE VIEW from outside and TWO ROOMS inside – one for customers and one for personnel. Rooms are divided by a wall that has a window so personnel and customers can see each other.

My question is:

If a camera physically located in the customer room, but shoots an action in the personnel room (through the window) what location shall be written for that scene?


NEXT
I have an action where cashier picks up a phone to dial Police. I see it as two close-up shots.

1 - A hand picks up a cable phone handle and dials a number.
2 - A man puts a handle to his ear.

Shall these shots be considered as two scenes and separated in the script with individual heading?


NEXT
A lot of actions will happen in the Exchange Office’s Customer Room. Camera placement remains INTERIOR, location remains the same, but camera WILL be replaced within the location. For instance, I have four men yelling on the boy. I see it shooting them from aside, then from the boy’s point of view.

Shall these shots be also considered as two scenes and separated in the script with individual heading?


NEXT
Some actions do not happen in sequence, but rather simultaneously.
For instance, the four men yelling on the boy do NOT do it neither “in turn”, nor exactly at the same time. They are like a small crowd, but you can clearly understand what they say.
How to correctly put this into script? And how to correctly number this scene on the slate while shooting?

FINALLY
I am sure there is a proven system on how to shoot films in order not to mess up during editing stage. This is mainly script supervisor and slate job. I feel I’m lacking that system. Please, link me to somewhere to read on that.

Thanks in advance.
 
Hey Re-maker, this is that cool story about the boy who wants to give back the money.. thats going to be great..

Write the script first, then when thats DONE your DP and director will figure out the shots etc....

Your script doesn't have to worry about where the camera is, just whats happening..

EDIT: I miss read your post, your going from room to room with a window between.. either way below is just and example of how you can hint at camera moves without focusing on it too much...


something like this.. .

EXT. EXCHANGE OFFICE COURT YARD - DAY
A cat plays with a dead mouse beneath the EXCHANGE OFFICE open window.

EXCHANGE AGENT (O.S.) off screen..
Young man, are you stealing this money..

The cat eats the mouses head. CRUNCH!

INT. EXCHANGE OFFICE-DAY
The window is open, the white walls and red Terra-cotta tiled roof conceal a view of the the blue sea below the coastal village.

EXCHANGE AGENT
Well, boy, what do you have to say for your self..

....

....

etc..

From that your director and camera people can figure out how to film it in a way thats interesting. By starting out side, your suggesting that they can push in through the open window, framing the boy as he sits in front of the agent, then, cut to a reverse OTS of the boy looking at the agent.. .. but that can be filmed any number of ways.. at this stage, dont let it block you..
 
Last edited:
Hey Re-maker, this is that cool story about the boy who wants to give back the money.. thats going to be great..
Thanks for support and I will do my best to make it great.
Write the script first, then when thats DONE your DP and director will figure out the shots etc....

Your script doesn't have to worry about where the camera is, just whats happening..
The script is done. Although I keep on editing it, but those are minor corrections. I have distributed it for others to read and criticize/comment.
I was righting the script with a sense of what viewers will see ON THE SCREEN. However, I got concerned on how correct is it from a production point of view.
EDIT: I miss read your post, your going from room to room with a window between.. either way below is just and example of how you can hint at camera moves without focusing on it too much...
Good one. Thanks a lot!
From that your director and camera people can figure out how to film it in a way thats interesting. By starting out side, your suggesting that they can push in through the open window, framing the boy as he sits in front of the agent, then, cut to a reverse OTS of the boy looking at the agent.. .. but that can be filmed any number of ways.. at this stage, dont let it block you..
The thing is... my director and camera people are one and same person - myself :)
 
There is the technical definition of a scene, and then there is the functional "definition". The technical definition of a scene has been covered here, quite adequately. That is in relation to screenwriting format, for the most part.

But I get the impression you will be directing your own writing, and that changes the rules. In fact, I'd say that you make your own rules.

An example from my own work -- I've got a scene in which there are some people inside their house, chatting and stuff. Then, they hear a knock at the door.

Cut to:

Outside, the dudes who knocked at the door are hiding from view.

Cut to:

Inside, the owner of the house peeks out his blinds.

Cut to:

Outside, the hiding marauders pounce on the homeowner, when he opens the door.

Now, technically, that's four scenes. But when it came time to shoot the thing, from a functional perspective, it was all just one scene. And, in the movie, it will play out as but one bit of an even larger scene.

So, my point is that if you're the director, it is YOU who answers the question of what constitutes a scene, screenwriting rules be damned.

P.S. Six pages is long, but not that long.
 
Well, for a scene with a sequence of different locations or a scene chopped inbetween another scene, the scenes numerical attibute remains the same and a letter is added.

So the'chase' scene would be:

16A : runs down ally
16B: runs through resturant
Etc.

Then the scene is divided into shots:
16A shot A Take 1
16A shot B take 1
Or
16B shot A take 1.
16B shot B take 1.

Hope this helps!
 
Well, for a scene with a sequence of different locations or a scene chopped inbetween another scene, the scenes numerical attibute remains the same and a letter is added.

So the'chase' scene would be:

16A : runs down ally
16B: runs through resturant
Etc.

Then the scene is divided into shots:
16A shot A Take 1
16A shot B take 1
Or
16B shot A take 1.
16B shot B take 1.

Hope this helps!
Clear.

I do understand Scene 16A, 16B, as if they were re-numbered to 17 and 18. But this is tough to do on a script's hard copy during production.

I am making my own rules.
Scene changes when location changes - period.
Shot changes when camera replaced.
Since I am shooting with one camera, I say shots to be numbered and not lettered. If a scene remains INTERIOR, in the SAME location and time, then scene number remains the same, but any camera placement shall be logged as SHOT1, 2, 3... etc.

Will that work?
 
Im pretty sure you could just break them up when your characters are changing subjects of conversation, f it's all about one subject and you think it's too long it could lose audience's interest.

Really I'm not positive it's just an opinion.
 
Yes, sometimes you break a scene up in the shooting script just because it runs on too long. In my last short, one "scene" is probably 50% of the film (12 minutes). Two people in the same room with no change in time or location. In the script it's "SCENE 7". In the shooting script it's scene 7a, 7b, 7c, 7d, and 7e. It would be impossible to get a master from one camera position, or to have the performers run a master that long without making mistakes, so it's broken up.
 
This is actually something that belongs under screenwriting.

You can break you scene with jump cuts too.

Move the conversation around the room and jump the cut from on area to the other.

That's an easy way to create additional scenes.
 
Back
Top