movies What did he say?

So much debate over the Matrix and whether or not Neo was in the matrix or if he got out. Was Zion real?
Here is the brilliant scene the spells it out for us.

He is telling Neo that he is in the Matrix, has always been in the Matrix, and always will be. It's ALL the Matrix.


Staff Member
Yes Zion was real, Neo wasn't trapped inside the matrix the whole time.

"It was all a dream" is a shit ending for shit movies and the matrix was great. it wasn't all a dream.
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Staff Member
Do you think the Architect was lying to him?
No, the fundamental purpose of the architect in the story is to address the flaw in the matrix - that humans must CHOOSE to be complicit.
If the architect was lying to him then that defeats his entire purpose - giving neo a choice - and fucks up the story

So I believe the architect was telling the truth.
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To start with, slightly off topic, I love the casting of the architect. This guy's voice and delivery are ideal for the role.

Second, I agree that Neo was in two worlds, and that the Architect was being straight with him. I perceived the Architect as having a mentality above fear. I've seen it many times in real life. Once you've rigged the game in your favor past a certain point, you just quit worrying about things, as success is a foregone conclusion. Watch footage of multimillionaires that have been tried for murder. They are just sitting in court, bored, checking sports scores on their phone, waiting for everyone to figure out that they have more legal representation available than the state. The Architect is a believable character to me.

Sean hit on a topic I'd been meaning to discuss, so this is probably as good a time as any. That topic is about the use of dreams in film. I understand and agree with his statement "in general", but I think the topic is a lot deeper, and should be explored more.

Rather than muck up this thread, I'll start one that's about that topic specifically, but in short, I think it's all about execution.
OK. Not arguing, but I think the Architect scene pretty clearly stated in words and images on the screens behind Neo that he was always in the Matrix. In order to balance the equation, the Architect built struggle and conflict into the Matrix, including conspiracy and rebellion. He devised a way to soft boot the system when needed to get rid of that pesky rounding error he talked about. It's been a while but I think Neo's choice was to go along with the soft reboot otherwise everyone dies. That's the way I interpreted the scene.

transcript of the conversation with the Architect:

Architect: Hello, Neo.
Neo: Who are you?
Architect: I am the Architect. I created the Matrix. I’ve been waiting for you.
You have many questions, and though the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also the most irrelevant.
Neo: Why am I here?
Architect: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which, despite my sincerest efforts, I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden assiduously avoided, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably… here.
Neo: You haven’t answered my question.
Architect: Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.
TV Neos: Others? How many others? What others? Answer my question!
Architect: The Matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the 6th version.
TV Neos: 5 `One’s before me? 4 3 2 What are you talking about?
Neo: There are only two possible explanations, either no one told me, or no one knows.
Architect: Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly is systemic – creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.
TV Neos: You can’t control me! I’m gonna smash you to bits! I’ll fuckin’ kill you!
Neo: Choice. The problem is choice.
Architect: The first Matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art – flawless, sublime. A triumph equalled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus, I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another – an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.
Neo: The Oracle.
Architect: Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probablility of disaster.
Neo: This is about Zion.
Architect: You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed – its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.
Neo: Bullshit.
TV Neos: Bullshit!
Architect: Denial is the most predictable of all human responses, but rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.
Architect: The function of the One is now to return to the Source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which, you will be required to select from the Matrix 23 individuals – 16 female, 7 male – to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash, killing everyone connected to the Matrix, which, coupled with the extermination of Zion, will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.
Neo: You won’t let it happen. You can’t. You need human beings to survive.
Architect: There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility of the death of every human being on this world. It is interesting, reading your reactions. Your 5 predecessors were, by design, based on a similar predication – a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific – vis a vis love.
Neo: Trinity.
Architect: Apropos, she entered the Matrix to save your life, at the cost of her own.
Neo: No.
Architect: Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both beginning and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the Source, and the salvation of Zion. The door to your left leads back to the Matrix, to her and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you are going to do, don’t we? Already, I can see the chain reaction – the chemical precursors that signal the onset of an emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic and reason – an emotion that is already blinding you from the simple and obvious truth. She is going to die, and there is nothing you can do to stop it.
Architect: Hope. It is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness.
Neo: If I were you, I would hope that we don’t meet again.

Architect: We won’t.
My interpretation is that it's a trap within a trap, but freedom does still exist, once Neo is able to perceive the layers of illusion surrounding him, and differentiate between them. It's also brilliant that within this allegory (Plato's allegory of the cave, with motorcycle chases) that the true reality of the world was very rough and hostile, and that the true escape was an escape to a world that was quantifiably worse than the one that he was escaping from. The idea that character was defined by a desire to be authentic, even if it made one's situation less palatable. This was actually an incredibly smart franchise, that reinvigorated the use of allegory to provide thought provoking commentary on the nature of our world.
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I saw it as Star Wars for the next generation.... Unfortunately, it seems to have imploded upon itself.
well, to be fair, they all have. lol. Name a current franchise that still has it's integrity attached. LOTR? Star Wars? Asimov's Foundation? The Wheel of Time? All those stories are now gone, and have been replaced with the same story, a story of modern pop political dogma as rendered by internet groupthink. Sorry, I know that's grim, but I've been watching 60 versions of the same story for 4 years now, and honestly I'm really annoyed that the art of writing has been replaced by the art of parroting twitter posts with expensive costumes under the banner of borrowed fictions.
I completely agree, Nate. Alien was destroyed too.

As for the Matrix

Forget the speech by the Architect. This scene says it all.

Neo could not disable a Sentinel using wishful thinking and delusion. He was able to stop them because they are a part of the Matrix and so is he and he was The One, which gave him special abilities, just like in a video game.


Staff Member
Neo could not disable a Sentinel using wishful thinking and delusion. He was able to stop them because they are a part of the Matrix and so is he and he was The One, which gave him special abilities, just like in a video game.

A common misconception.

Neo was able to control them because he's a cyborg, from birth he has had machines drilled into the back of his head that are capable of wireless communication as well as the direct hardwire link that is necessary to enter the matrix. you see that he is a cyborg on many occasions as they plug a huge hunk of machinery into his skull, and it's cited as the reason why dozer and tank cannot enter the matrix, they aren't cyborgs.
AAAAhh.. I see. Neo had built in wifi.. That explains it. So that means Morpheus, Trinity, and the rest of the gang were cyborgs too.. Somehow I missed that. I must have been out getting popcorn.

Here's the part of the Architect speech that spells it out. it's from the Director's cut of the film.

Architect: Hello, Neo.
Neo: Who are you?
Architect: I am the Architect. I created the Matrix. I’ve been waiting for you.
I'm sure you have many questions.
Neo: Have I always been in the Matrix and never been out?
Architect: Yes.
Neo: That's what I though.


Staff Member
AAAAhh.. I see. Neo had built in wifi.. That explains it. So that means Morpheus, Trinity, and the rest of the gang were cyborgs too.. Somehow I missed that. I must have been out getting popcorn.

You sound sarcastic but the definition of a cyborg is a human with mechanical elements built into the body.
So yes they are all cyborgs.

Did you know darth vader is a cyborg too? Maybe you're just not familiar hearing the term.
Look how many mechanical implants this baby has

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