Welcome to the Sausage Party!

Damn, there's a lot of dongs around here. Where's all the labia? It didn't used to be like this. There used to be at least four or five female members making regular contributions to the discussions going on here. As such, it used to be a whopping 5% of posts being made by females. Now it's down to more like 1%.

That's a problem, dudes. You know how everybody on here likes to espouse the phrase "Audio is Half of the Movie!"?

Well yeah, it is. Thank God people are talking about it. But where are the people espousing the phrase "Females are Half of Your Audience!"?

And why have I never online-met an Indietalker who is openly gay?

Hmm, I wonder why traffic at this site has slowed down.

Got a lady friend who shows interest in film? Do all of us a favor and direct her to this site. Ditto that for any LGBT who is interested in filmmaking, and any ethnic minority.

Hollywood is finally just starting to figure out that it's beneficial to them to make sure that the makeup of their movies should better reflect the diversity that exists in this world. IT should do the same.
 
But where are the people espousing the phrase "Females are Half of Your Audience!"?

And why have I never online-met an Indietalker who is openly gay?

It's a bizarre phenomenon that's bothered me the entire time i've been on here. I would suggest there are several reasons for this:

1) there are sadly still less straight white men making films than everyone else. This is a result of society and the industry being particularly rooted in a sexist tradition (we're only making very slow progress on this) - it makes it harder for others to get involved. Beyond the obviousm, technology (film is a tech-driven industry) is still taught to us at a young age as a "mans" game - again, it's evolving. But only slowly. Filmmaking is also expensive - and guess who the richest people in the world tend to be? Straight white males.

2) Internet subcultures in general are a fairly classic nerdy-masculine past-time - for reasons already mentioned, this makes it an intimidating place to be.

3) I might get attacked for this, but fuck it. Although IT isn't as awful as a lot of the film industry, this place is fairly conservative. Most of the films, discussions, etc here tend toward reinforcing the status quo. I don't think (m)any people here are bad people - most people here have fairly progressive leanings (pro gender-equity, gay representation, etc) - but most people aren't actively questioning, attacking, breaking down the oppressive norms of society, either. By essentially doing nothing, we become part of the problem, silently reinforcing the status quo. There's no-one in particular to blame for this, but it doesn't help the extremely narrow representation we see on IT. Ironically, I'm also generalising here. There are many ITers who are vocal and progressive in their discussion and work.



There isn't any one solution to this, but it'd be great if we did something more as a community.




*these problems aren't exclusive to IT or filmmaking by any means, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't address it.
 
It's a bizarre phenomenon that's bothered me the entire time i've been on here. I would suggest there are several reasons for this:

1) there are sadly still less straight white men making films than everyone else. This is a result of society and the industry being particularly rooted in a sexist tradition (we're only making very slow progress on this) - it makes it harder for others to get involved. Beyond the obviousm, technology (film is a tech-driven industry) is still taught to us at a young age as a "mans" game - again, it's evolving. But only slowly. Filmmaking is also expensive - and guess who the richest people in the world tend to be? Straight white males.

2) Internet subcultures in general are a fairly classic nerdy-masculine past-time - for reasons already mentioned, this makes it an intimidating place to be.

3) I might get attacked for this, but fuck it. Although IT isn't as awful as a lot of the film industry, this place is fairly conservative. Most of the films, discussions, etc here tend toward reinforcing the status quo. I don't think (m)any people here are bad people - most people here have fairly progressive leanings (pro gender-equity, gay representation, etc) - but most people aren't actively questioning, attacking, breaking down the oppressive norms of society, either. By essentially doing nothing, we become part of the problem, silently reinforcing the status quo. There's no-one in particular to blame for this, but it doesn't help the extremely narrow representation we see on IT. Ironically, I'm also generalising here. There are many ITers who are vocal and progressive in their discussion and work.



There isn't any one solution to this, but it'd be great if we did something more as a community.




*these problems aren't exclusive to IT or filmmaking by any means, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't address it.

Yep, you nailed it! Silence, in the face of oppression, is no better than collusion. It's about time for more cis-gendered straight white males to start standing up to the systemic oppression against anyone other than us that has existed for far longer than any of us has been alive.

Let me be clear -- I'm not saying any of this to be "politically correct" or to get IT talking politics. No, this is a discussion about filmmaking.

If you want to find an audience for your films, and if you don't have the advertising dollars that Hollywood has, maybe you should consider making your films for an audience that doesn't have many films targeted at them. Find your niche. Embrace diversity. Cuz if we don't, who will?
 
5% of posts being made by females. Now it's down to more like 1%.

Perhaps women are less stubborn than men. Could it have to do with the shift in demographics here? It's shifted from 85% of the posts coming from wannabe filmmakers. Now 84% posts are by stubborn failed filmmakers trying to stitch together their second film while dodging hater talk. Did the women move on to more important issues?
 
Let me be clear -- I'm not saying any of this to be "politically correct" or to get IT talking politics. No, this is a discussion about filmmaking.
The two aren't really mutually exclusive, though. As you say:

If you want to find an audience for your films, and if you don't have the advertising dollars that Hollywood has, maybe you should consider making your films for an audience that doesn't have many films targeted at them. Find your niche. Embrace diversity. Cuz if we don't, who will?
Promoting diversity has a capital gain as well as a societal gain.
 
Perhaps women are less stubborn than men. Could it have to do with the shift in demographics here? It's shifted from 85% of the posts coming from wannabe filmmakers. Now 84% posts are by stubborn failed filmmakers trying to stitch together their second film while dodging hater talk. Did the women move on to more important issues?

Oh, wow. I thought I liked you. Wow. It's very disappointing to learn that you're against me. I'm sorry you feel that way. Seriously, this is a bummer to me. Low-blow.
 
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You begged for hater talk. Are you telling me you can't handle it? That's disappointing! You've bummed me now. Do you really need the punches to be pulled?
 
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think there are plenty of women out there who are and want to be part of film production and direction. And maybe they're not on here because they're tied up in lots of other intricacies. :)

But then there is an argument that there are pelnty of women trying to succeed in film but they either don't get recognition, fight for it and get labelled a bitch who is difficult to work with or are advised against trying in the first place. Plus we have to be hired or get support for our projects in the first place, and the fuckery that goes on around that frays character and erodes stubbornness. Everybody has their limits and it's reasonable to think that a lot of people cut their losses before they either punch someone in the face or burn out completely. It's a rare person who can just not give a fuck and continue doing what they're doing no matter how many times they have to deal with games and other ridiculousness.


As to these forums, right now, I'm reading and reading and just don't have much to say. I'm trying to learn as much as possible so don't have much to add.
 
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The wachowskis have done their part.
That's 2 less white men and 2 more women in film making :)
 
You begged for hater talk. Are you telling me you can't handle it? That's disappointing! You've bummed me now. Do you really need the punches to be pulled?

Please keep the haterism in the haterism thread. That's why I created that thread. Cuz it doesn't belong in threads like this. Your comments in this thread are off-topic and deserving of demerit, but if I was a mod I'd let you off with a warning.
 
I'm here a lot. I have no interest in arguing, but post when I feel that I have something substantive to contribute.

Yeah, there's a lot of arguing going on here lately. I'm actively working on putting an end to that. Ironically, I'm putting an end to it by arguing. But anyway, I really think we need to all make this a place where we can share ideas without being trampled on.
 
I'm here a lot. I have no interest in arguing, but post when I feel that I have something substantive to contribute.

But where's Tara? I bet she can get a little bit dorky from time to time. I've got a female filmmaker friend who I'm going to encourage to show up here. Might you do the same?
 
You've joined the APE bandwagon quoting rules at me! I never thought I'd see the day.

Double demerit for you.

I'm just trying my best to do what I do best, while helping other people figure out how to do their best.

Now 84% posts are by stubborn failed filmmakers trying to stitch together their second film while dodging hater talk.

That's harsh. I don't deserve that kind of treatment. That kind of talk has no place on this forum. And I'm not trying, I'm doing. Yoda knows the difference.
 
That's harsh. I don't deserve that kind of treatment.

I get it. The good old double standard. It's ok for you to to be a nasty piece of work and shoot across APE's bow, but if it happens to you it's all, Red Alert! Battle Stations! Wait, I don't go to war. Feelings are hurt!

while dodging hater talk
That kind of talk has no place on this forum.

You're right. I should strive to be more accurate. What I should have said, "while encouraging hater talk." Better?

Hey, you know what. This prolling feels good!
 
I'm sincerely saddened to learn that that's how you feel about me, Sweetie. So how do we move forward in making our communications constructive? How do you and I find a middle-ground that will allow us to communicate with each other in a way that will benefit the community?

I may be wrong, but part of me thinks that you're taking your stance because you think I'm attacking APE. First of all, I'm the person who coined the acronym "APE". That's how long I've been here. And that's how long he and I have had an unfriendly rivaly. I'm trying right now to put an end to that unfriendly rivalry.

What's wrong with that? I'm trying to make peace here, dude. I have literally offered APE a truce, many times over. And yet you think I'm the villain? So now you come and attack me in a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with the division between APE and I? Do you have any idea how off-topic your posts in this thread are?

Apparently, I need to add you to the list of people whose hateration will be documented in the hateration-thread that I literally invited you to hate on me in.
 
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