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VFX/CC Workflow

S

Scotty Fox

Hi all,

I posted recently on something similar but now I have a couple possible avenues for the post work depending on who I end up going with (VFX/CC people)

Here are the two options and how I'm understanding is the best workflow for each. Please critique anything you see being wrong!

VFX/CC (with AE)

PrPro offline edit > export EDL > Import EDL into REDCineX > Relink files with r3d files > export 2K/4K clips as necessary as .DPX >

hand off to VFX/CC artist so they do their work > they export .DPX finished product > I import back into PrPro for final touches, syncing with audio > Final 2K master export.

VFX/CC (with AE then Resolve)

Virtually the same process except they'd be using Resolve instead of AE. But they'd also use .DPX files and give me a .DPX in return.


So that's how I'm seeing it right now. The reason for the 2K and 4K clips are because I've punched in quite a bit on some clips to reframe. So to keep the 2K resolution and not have a zoom in of 30-40% on some shots, I'll need to use the 4K in those spots. 2K for everything else I didn't punch in on.

I'm using CS5.5 right now, but seem to be having the problem of importing the EDL into REDCineX. I can't seem to relink it to the files I want. Not sure why, but the correct files are grayed out and I can't click on them even though they have the same name. I'm probably doing something wrong.

The other option I was thinking of is if the EDL isn't the way to go, I could media manage the project, creating a trimmed and cleaned project for the offline edit, then export that as an XML, and use that in place of the EDL. Let me know if I'm way off in the deep end now. But thought that might be an easy way of letting Premiere trim my clips to what I'm actually using, instead of hoping an EDL list gets it right. Plus an XML export from the main project seems to be including EVERYTHING even if I'm not using it in the sequence.

I also wasn't sure if I should be upgrading to CS6 or CC... Are there big advancements in the exporting EDL/XML and that workflow, or is it all the same between CC and CS5.5?

Thanks everybody.
 
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Quick update. So I got REDCineX to relink to the r3d files, but in the offline edit, I dropped frames, had some speed changes. For those clips with speed changes, it gives me the wrong in and out points. All the others worked fine, but for any speed changes it's way off.

Any fixes on this? Or do I have to go through the offline edit, make notes on where my speed changes are, then at the end of the workflow process, add all the speed changes back in when I bring it back from VFX and CC?

If I have to do this wow.. that'll suck..
 
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I may be wrong, but I don't think the EDL format is robust enough to keep track of much beyond in/out edit points. In other words, no speed shift data in the EDL.

I wonder about your proposed workflow a bit. It seems to me going from Resolve back into premiere for your final render is going to be counter productive as you'd get MUCH nicer quality footage straight out of Resolve. Resolve 10.x has full audio support as well, so really if you can get picture and sound locked down beforehand, the final render could come straight out of Resolve.
 
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Hi Will,

The only issue with that is if I don't use Resolve. Just due to costs, it might be too expensive to go with someone who's operating that program. So may end up doing it in AE or something else, and if that's the case I'm wondering if the first workflow is the best I can do????

Yes I agree about the EDL... that would make sense.. So I'm guessing media managing the file before exporting the XML is the way to go there??

Thanks for the help!
 
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You can do your final render out from AE in that case. AE has much better color handling than Premiere.

But as far as cost goes... free is too cost prohibitive?

Resolve 10 has good optical flow based time remapping, as does AE. Probably the better solution (to presevere image quality as long as possible) would be to remap the time in your final environment just prior to export?
 
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But as far as cost goes... free is too cost prohibitive?
Click to expand...

I think you mean I should get the free version, because it's free and better than AE??

Issue here is I'm not a colorist. Nor do I want to learn the program and then grade the project. That leaves me looking for someone who uses Resolve Lite, and then it becomes an issue of people saying they're colorists when they're really not, and all they did was download the software and so on.

I totally get your point, but I'm not sure that going with someone who uses AE for color, but is really good at it, is actually worse than going for a Resolve Lite user who isn't that experienced.

Unfortunately it starts becoming a guessing game on my part.... ahhhh!
 
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Gotcha, thanks Will. Definitely played with that thought.. Then realized it would look awful. I always think it my head how it should look, but always get frustrated trying to CC and get it to that place... never seems to get there.. haha.
 
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Just need to take your time, and not give up. There's nothing magical about it, just practice and pushing things one direction, while pulling other things another direction, etc.
 
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So then, if you've got to do it yourself, it sounds like you have AE already.. AE will work in 32bit color space, and has all the same tools available.. it won't complain about the resolution. Granted it'll be more cumbersome to work with than resolve would be, but it could still be done. If you had to.
 
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I'm gearing up to do more and more color correction.. I might be interested in working on some projects. I won't have the full version of resolve until my black magic 4k ships, which is likely to be several months from now unfortunatley.
 
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Time changes in premiere dont seem to export correctly no mater the flow. Edl or Final cut xml.

At lest thats my limited experience.

Can I assume your footage is ALL 4k, and that for some you will push in to reframe?

If your doing Ppro to AE then you can just import the Ppro project in AE and your time changes WILL work.

I wouldn't worry about re rendering the 4k files before your final output. Its a simple mater to zoom out the 4k clips on the 2k timeline, and punch in as you need, in either ppro or ae.

If you render and prescale down to 2k before the final output, your losing data for your vfx.

I believe your best bet is to always send ORIGINAL footage to VFX, no processing. For best quality it will be returned as a bazillion single frames, not some compressed codex footage.

To get clips with handles out of ppro, use the "project manager" tool to create a trimed project. This will create new copies of the original footage that are trimmed (+ handles of your choice) and renamed appropriately. Its then easy to open the new trimmed ppro project and find the clips you want to send to vfx...

or not.. never really do this.. I just tried it as a test and seems to work like that.
 
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Hi Wheat,

yeah, getting the speed changes is impossible out of PrPro. I've done a lot more tests and it's pretty pointless. I'd have to take off all speed changes if I were to try and send the r3d files along with the data. Basically it's down to me rescaling and making sure the speed changes are all there by hand or I have to push it on the VFX or CC artists.

Since I want to make sure it's done how I like, I'm going to do it. Basically that means I have to bake that information in those clips before sending them out and my best bet seems to be .dpx at the moment.

So relinking offline edit in a 2K timeline. Bringing in the 4K clips, resizing all, getting my scale right and so forth. And by relinking, my speed changes still apply. So all looks good.

The major issue now is how PrPro is exporting dpx files. The colorspace is wacky and it exports a blown out image. The information is there, but its blown out. Super annoying. I'm working with the colorist to figure out why, but I can open the project in AE (like you mentioned) and export the same full range dpx files and they look fine. They also look fine out of REDCineX.

So I need to figure out what Premiere's problem is. AE is doable, but I'd rather use Premiere and have one less step. But if I have to I have to.
 
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Hi Will,

Really, that's it? 8bit? That makes sense because when I choose "standard" it gives me a decent looking image. Adds some saturation, but gets it closer to normal.

So I guess the PrPro route is out... I'll have to use AE.

When I export out of AE using dpx, as long as my .r3d source settings are what I want "redlogfilm" and "redcolor3" I don't need to worry about any other settings do I? Again I'll go over this with the colorist, but wondered if you had any experience with this?

Thanks Will.
 
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Actually, the latest PrPro supports 16-bit input and 10-bit output. DPX, TIFF, and ProRes are all available as 10-bit output; you can create 12- and 16-bit DPXs so it's possible that's the difference you're seeing - 10-bit is generally fine for many colour grading needs.
 
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