Upgrading the camera-next realistic level ?

Tinalera

Tinalera

Note, this is not so much a "What camera should I get", more like "looking for an upgrade, what things should I look for" type of thread.

I will be using if for my own films and probably won't be working with any production studios in the immediate future.

I have a Canon 930 consumer Camcorder. It's worked well for me, and I will be keeping it as a second camera. I'm just wondering, for those who upgraded from a "camcorder", did you go up a moderate step(to one of the higher end camcorders), or did you go right to a 3000 pro model? What should I be looking for in a higher end camera?

I can look at all the wonderful stats on a camera, and I know a couple of things (3CCD or CMOS, Optical Zoom, Manual controls for zoom, focus, External Mic input). Anything else I should look for in a "Higher" end camera that mine wouldn't have? Are there higher end camcorders which have Dv and HDD/SD, or is that only getting into the "professional" cameas?

Just looking for advice :)
 
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A good step-up for you would be what they call a "prosumer" camera. The definition of prosumer depends on who you ask, but CNET seems to define it as basically a camcorder with the ability to manually control white balance, shutter, iris, and focus and featuring a microphone input.

The Canon VIXIA HF-S100 would be an example of CNET's definition of prosumer, and it has a lot of fanboys in the community, including myself...it records full HD to removable SDHC cards.

The camera is just a tool...good filmmaking comes from a great deal more areas than merely the camera. But the more you learn this tool, and the more you have control over this tool, means the more decisions you have as a filmmaker. A prosumer camera would be a great device to learn how decisions regarding manual control over iris, shutter, focus and white balance can alter the look of your film.
 
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+1 on the canon hfs100 (thats my baby)

however, the manual focus wheel gets almost 0 use by me. And not being able to INDEPENDENTLY control the aperture and the shutter is limiting. You can control one or the other, just not both at the same time... (pro cam wont do that)

That said, if you have just a bit more budget (say $2k) your options exponentially increase.


For HFS100 fanboys.. I learned a cool trick to get the shutter \ aperture readout on the video screen LIVE (when in the opposite mode TV, AE) turn on enable dual mode in options, then while looking at video, PARTIALLY press the photo button..
 
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Yea, I'm not looking at 2 grand, that's a bit steep for me, I'll check out the discussion anyway on that thread :)

Two people vouching for the HFS-100, that's a good start! ( I know Wheatgrinder has spoken gospel about it, sometimes I wonder if you make offerings to it Wheatgrinder? ;) I kid, I kid. I like seeing people passionate about their cameras, and Wheatgrinder's advice hasn't led me astray so far :))

The idea of a "prosumer" camera (I like that name) is one that appeals to me: somewhere between "I want to learn more features than my consumer camera" and "Professional grade camera.

Like I said, I'm not signing up with Fox studios tomorrow or anything, but there just reaches a point where you want to learn more. I agree, the camera is a tool, it's what you do with it. I'm starting to hit the point where I want a little more out of my camera, but don't want to go too fast.

EDIT: Took a peekyboo, and it looks like something I'm looking for-under 1000 and some nice features (though uses SD cards, which I know little about, my current being a Dv).

There's been mention of occassional software glitches (they were vague)-have either of you had experience with these (I know Wheatgrinder has mentioned the rolling shutter-I love using a new term once I learn it! :)). As far as the wheel focus, my manual zoom/focus is a side-to-side switch, which doesn't allow for accuracy without a lot of trying to to get it "just right". I'd probably be in heaven with a wheel!
 
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I would hold off and decide which way you are going in the buisness before getting a consumer camera only to outgrow it in a short time. I started shooting on an A-minima 16 mm film camera and then went to the Canon XL2, form there I bought a couple of XHA1 s and then a couple of XLH1 s. and then the RED one. Lokking back I should have gone straight to the XLH1 as I have used it more than anything. The red is usually a step away for alot of folks and I would not suggest that rout until you have some steady contracted work. I have seen alot of people step up in cameras a little at a time only to end up with a bunch of cameras that are seldom used, maybe wait and save and build your skills and worklog.
 
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Cinemaair said:
I would hold off and decide which way you are going in the buisness before getting a consumer camera only to outgrow it in a short time. I started shooting on an A-minima 16 mm film camera and then went to the Canon XL2, form there I bought a couple of XHA1 s and then a couple of XLH1 s. and then the RED one. Lokking back I should have gone straight to the XLH1 as I have used it more than anything. The red is usually a step away for alot of folks and I would not suggest that rout until you have some steady contracted work. I have seen alot of people step up in cameras a little at a time only to end up with a bunch of cameras that are seldom used, maybe wait and save and build your skills and worklog.
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Well, there's a couple of parts to my thought process(though your advice is certainly valuable and something to think about :))

My budget won't let me hoard unfortunately....I mean thankfully:D(of course, if you really want to get rid of the XHA for a hundred or two....;)). I will do my research and due dilligence. If I went and got a 3 grand pro model, it would be great, but I'd feel like I was jumping in over my head. My next camera after this one will probably be pro (whenever that is), but I need an "inbetweener" as it were.

The second part-I'd like to practice using two camera setups for film. I don't plan on abandoning my 930 (I love the thing), and the next camera would be a primary, but not sole use. I'd like to try filming for example one camera wide shot while another shoots closeups. Now, how the footage would mesh between the two camera I'd have to see(and may have to buy an adapter for the 2nd to keep the frame consistent)

And this isn't something I'm buying tomorrow (unless you want to giv-er loan me the funds....I'll give you credit on the next film! ;)but a few months down the road. Just doing my due diligence now.

I appreciate the feedback though!
 
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Focus on Features

I'm just going to throw out some general comments here about upgrading technology, specific as I can to cameras.

First and foremost, it a few months what you have looked at now will drop in price, new cameras are always coming out (more on this later).

First focus on what features you need/want, write them down and go to your local camera store or forum :), ask around what kind of camera would meet your requirements.

Second, think about what you are going to shoot and how you are going to do it, this is important as buying a $1000 camera is great and below your budget; but if you then need to speed another $2000 to get it to do what you want, you've lost.

Thrid, back to cameras... Once you have a good idea of what you want to do, and what specs you need take a look at the camera you already have and check off what it already can do. As long as its image/video quality is good you should be primarily seeking a camera that compliments your current unit; otherwise you should be looking at a replacement.

The reason I say this is because if its not your primary camera, or have some function your new camera doesn't. Your only going to use it as a B-camera on a tripod, and there are plenty of sub-$200 cameras that can do that for you just as well (Flip, Sanyo, etc). Use the money you make from the sale of your old camera (minus $200 for a stationary camera) for your new camera, its surprising what $500 will do in terms of quality and features.

Now a few months down the road, its important to know that new cameras are always coming out, and its easy to get stuck on the "I want that camera" mentality. Unless the camera has been released in the last 6 months, in 6 months there is likely going to be a newer model with new feature and the one you wanted now will be 1/2 price. This is why you look at features first before camera models, because if your too focused on getting something "new" you may miss out on something that will fulfill your criteria and save you a couple hundred dollars (which you could put towards making your film).

Case and point - I just purchased a D90, its been out for 2 years already and likely be replaced in the fall. Far from the newest video technology out there. But it did meet my needs - allow me to shot video though my nikon glass thus getting excellent pictures. For lens & battery capability reasons I did not go with the D5000 which is cheaper but does autofocus my older lenses like the D90. Now all that said I got it for only $901 total, much lower then the original asking price when it was new. The money I saved went to my audio budget so I could by a nice mic and sound recorder (which better arrival tomorrow, grrr).
 
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Thanks for info Graeme- that's a lot to consider, and I appreciate it!

I was thinking the "complimentary" myself, like I said, I would still be using the 930 as a secondary. It is a good idea to keep an idea of what's coming up down the road for new cameras.

I've never had to have the latest thing (keeping up with the Jones's), so whatever I do buy I'll make sure I'm comfortable with, and not be saying six months later (man I want that instead....) I'm already making a list of things I would like to have on it, a rough price range (anything over 1000 is too steep), and taking my own building skills into consideration.

There are a lot of cameras out there, and I know my limitations. I'm still doing research, though, and I will keep an eye out 6 mths down the road (which will probably when I'll be able to afford the thing-I buy things outright, I don't do the OAC/Lease to own/"low low monthly payments" thing. I want to buy the camera outright and own it outright, whichever it is (hence the saving). I guess it was the way I was brought up: "If you don't have the money to pay for it when you buy it, you can't afford it".:)


ROC- that anniversary filming sounds so cool :)! Sounds like you had a blast doing it!
 
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Tinalera said:
There are a lot of cameras out there, and I know my limitations. I'm still doing research, though, and I will keep an eye out 6 mths down the road (which will probably when I'll be able to afford the thing-I buy things outright, I don't do the OAC/Lease to own/"low low monthly payments" thing. I want to buy the camera outright and own it outright, whichever it is (hence the saving). I guess it was the way I was brought up: "If you don't have the money to pay for it when you buy it, you can't afford it".:)
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I run the same way, Capital Positive Budgeting, and for equipment for your hobbies its really the only way to go (borrowing money to buy a "toy" is a bit foolish in my book).

I think in six-months we will see some additional HDSLR and CMOS-based Camcorders which play off the HDSLR technology. Already you can get into this in Canon or Nikon (if your starting out I'd go Canon. I went Nikon do to already having lenses) for around $1000 dollars, less if you buy used. For more traditional cameras I'm sure people around the forum who use them can give you some pointers. Just keep in mind that a balanced budget includes Camera & Support, Audio, Software & Computer, and Lighting; you may already have some of this but its harder to make a good movie if your missing one key component.
 
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Graeme said:
I run the same way, Capital Positive Budgeting, and for equipment for your hobbies its really the only way to go (borrowing money to buy a "toy" is a bit foolish in my book).

I think in six-months we will see some additional HDSLR and CMOS-based Camcorders which play off the HDSLR technology. Already you can get into this in Canon or Nikon (if your starting out I'd go Canon. I went Nikon do to already having lenses) for around $1000 dollars, less if you buy used. For more traditional cameras I'm sure people around the forum who use them can give you some pointers. Just keep in mind that a balanced budget includes Camera & Support, Audio, Software & Computer, and Lighting; you may already have some of this but its harder to make a good movie if your missing one key component.
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I have the camera, Editing software/computer, and lighting (daylight bulbs, but they work)-also intrigued by the Coleman Lamp that Wheatgrinder dug up(it's on another thread)on the net. Audio will be a microphone(not amazing, but decent-anything is better than the camera mic). Does anyone know of any cheap/free audio editing software? I've used Adobe audition and love it, but don't currently have it-is there something even on Windows(which has moviemaker)?
 
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