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Transformers Syndrome

NickClapper

NickClapper

This is a sort-of-jokey article that I wrote for my website which I would, of course, like people to read: Transformers Syndrome

Whilst this is not too serious a look at one of the problems of modern cinema, I am going to (in the nearish future) write a longer article building on the problems that I outline here.

I would like to open up a discussion about it because I recognise the fact that I have a traditionally highbrow taste in films, in that I prefer to drama or sophisticated comedy to action or slapstick. That's not to say that I don't think action or slapstick can be done well, it's just that I can't sit through The Avengers without thinking 'Damn! This is a seriously long, boring fight scene'.

So, my main questions are: do people actually, genuinely, enjoy the Transformers style fight sequences? Do people feel any emotional attachment to the characters in these series? Do people find themselves, whilst watching these movies, eagerly anticipating the next action sequence? Does anyone have a genuine aesthetic and narrative preference for movie featuring a lot of special effects?

I'm not going to be judgemental, I'd just like to open up a dialogue about the subject because I realise that I represent one side of the argument and that there must be another side.

:)
 
I still really enjoy Transformers 1. Had the connection for sure. T3... It was a little more distant, and way too long. I had the same "long, boring fight scene" feeling.

I've thoroughly enjoyed all of the marvel/avengers films up to this point though (Iron Man 1 & 2, Hulk, Thor and Captain America). Especially Iron Man and CA. None are perfect movies, but they're fun.

I really enjoy an incredible drama too. I remember feeling like I could breath again after watching Social Network the first time, but the popcorn movies are good in a different way. Fun.
 
I think there's a difference between the movies that I'm describing and popcorn movies.

I, like everyone, enjoy a good popcorn movie (like the Harry Potter films, Thor, Rise of the Planet of the Apes...etc) it's just a specific trend in action sequences that is emerging, I think as a result of the success of the Transformers series, which I think is having a hugely detrimental effect on the sort of movies that are getting made.

Did you really enjoy Iron Man 2 though..? :weird:
 
When I first saw the Battleships trailer I genuinely thought it was a parody - until Liam Neeson appeared. Now I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if this was made reality…

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I ride the fence. If the film and story surrounding it are good enough then a super huge cool action sequence is, well, really fucking cool to watch.

They can definitely go on for far too long though.

I haven't actually seen any of the Transformers, but I did (to my complete astonishment) like Iron Man and even Iron Man 2. Also to my surprise, I liked the X-Men movies. Sometimes a cool fight scene is just a cool fight scene.

Perfect example is the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise. First movie-great story, great acting, really creative and cool huge fight scenes. Second, third and god-knows-how-many-there-are-now-- terrible, they're just one artificially engineered 'cool' fight scene after another, strung together until it meets the Academy's definition of feature-length. No substance, just fluff.

Another recent example that comes to mind of a film where I sat there going, 'seriously, this is just one long action sequence. One way too long action sequence' was The Adventures of Tintin. Well, not the first half, but the second half. Up until this point was a great balance of good writing and good action. Then BOOM, pure 'cool' action sequence for the remainder of the film.

Again, I blame Pirates of the Caribbean. Transformers was just the natural evolution of what Disney started there.
 
I do not know if I am on target with what answers you might seek.

I really tried to sit through the first transformers movie @ the theater. It was hard to do. My three nephews grew up with the toys and were excited (they were in their mid-twenties when the first movie came out) -- they could not wait to drag me to the theater to watch the first showing with them... a crowded theater in Braintree (outside Boston). The fight scenes got old, to quick to get a handle on and the imagery became a blur. Okay for Megan Fox -- she was a new name then, pretty but I could not get any interest on her or LaBeouf character. Is this acting? Kind of plastic people typecasting...

The second Transformers - Revenge of the Fallen, I took my son to see. I managed to stay awake, but was like -- who cares? The story, characters and action sequences left me cold, again. I am supposed to care about these people? There's a character arc here? A plot? Sub plot? Yawn... My wife refused to go with us...

The third installment, we rented in HD from Netflixs... Dark of the Moon, we tried to watch on our new HD TV, (still had its newness wow) but never got beyond the first hour. Wife and I both were "who cares?" at the same time.... never did watch the final hour.

I hate these kind movies. Loud, sound and fury, signifying nothing. All glitz and no "I CARE about the main characters". Plastic.

On the other hand, I do like adventure films and super-hero movies taken from comics, graphic novels, pulp fiction and best sellers... but it really helps if I am given the opportunity TO CARE about the characters...
 
I disagree, Dready, on the Pirates movies. The first was okay. The second fleshed out the world, but suffered from way too much Legolas. The third took everything the first two built to and made a great film (if you ignore the epilogue). The fourth I put somewhere between the first two...and as the beginning of a new story arc WITHOUT a gratuitous reboot, gained some points for that.

Anyway, still haven't watched the Transformers movies (despite being exactly the target demographic and still owning some of the original toys/comics/cartoons). I did like Iron Man one and two (the second a little less so, but I loved Mickey Rourke, as always). Actually, I liked both of them more than Thor (Thor on Asgard, awesome. Thor on Earth, boring as hell).

But to your question, if the film makes the effort to connect me to the characters, then yeah, I can take and enjoy a 40 minute fight scene. I tend to prefer more fantasy/horror/sci-fi, so I'm not the typical market for that sort of thing anyway, but on occasion it's fun. I'll have more to say after I see Avengers. We did agree on Cabin In The Woods though!

...And I guess I ought to see the Transformers movies...
 
First of all, I know that nobody in here is going to try and tell me that "The Matrix" was boring. Ditto that for "Return of the King". And both of those movies finished with ridiculously-long action sequences that were ridiculously-awesome! And they preceded "Transformers".

In my opinion, it's not the length of the action scenes that is really getting your goad. You just don't like the story. And without a solid story with characters you can latch on to, no amount of action awesomeness will suffice, long or short.

For the record, I love the first "Transformers". I think it's a fun story about the nerdy kid who just wants a date with the hot chick. Plus, lots of giant alien robots kicking each others' asses. Honestly, if you haven't seen it, you really should. To me, it has a very early-Spielbergian feel (and he did executive produce).

I'm not sure how the Marvel movies became such an integral part of this conversation, but since we're on the subject -- of all the Marvel movies, in my opinion the one that is an absolute must-see is "X-Men: First Class". Either that or "Iron Man".

Anyway, I'll directly answer your original question, Nick:

NickClapper said:
So, my main questions are: do people actually, genuinely, enjoy the Transformers style fight sequences?
Click to expand...

In the first movie, hell yes! The second chapter bored me to death. The third movie was kinda cool. And yes, the action scenes, specifically, are just plain cool. It's not just a matter of blowing shit up. You gotta do it stylistically. In the following youtube clip, you can see how Micheal Bay creatively "stole" footage from one of his own movies. So, it's pretty interesting to watch just for that. Anyway, this particular scene from "Dark of the Moon" was pretty badass! I don't know if it's an adrenaline-rush or what, but yeah, this kind of action can be rather enthralling.

NickClapper said:
Do people feel any emotional attachment to the characters in these series?
Click to expand...

Uhh, it's not a deep emotional attachment, but I do really like Sam Witwicky and Bumblebee.

NickClapper said:
Do people find themselves, whilst watching these movies, eagerly anticipating the next action sequence?
Click to expand...

Me? No, not really. Like any other movie I just take it as it comes. And as I mentioned above, the story is what keeps me interested. I enjoy the action scenes if they fit into a story that I like.

NickClapper said:
Does anyone have a genuine aesthetic and narrative preference for movie featuring a lot of special effects?
Click to expand...

I don't like it when everything is super-tight and shaky. It makes me want to move farther back in the movie theater. Though, this did not stop me from enjoying the hell out of the first "Transformers" (which is rather tight and shaky).

Annnnd, now I know what I'm watching tonight! :D
 
It all depends what mood I am in whether I enjoy films like Transformers or not. If I`m not bothered about thinking about a film and just want to be entertained they are ok. But I do agree that they just seem to be one similar fight scene after another and that does get boring.

On a side note i`ve heard rumours that Micheal Bay(Mr Transformers himself) is set to direct or produce a sequel to Blade Runner. I seriously hope this turns out to be false :-(
 
I could get behind a Michael Bay Blade Runner. I know it's not the popular opinion among indies, but as I've said in the past I think Bay is a fine director and for his genre (crazy fun action, hot chicks, city demolishing battles) he's one of the best. He'll never win a best story oscar, but I'm willing to bet he can get whatever crazy idea he has now or in the future funded and made into a summer hit.

In the commentary or behind the scenes for Transformers 1 they talk about the goal of the story. They didn't want it to be entirely about robots because very few could identify with them, and though there was a pre-existing audience it was relatively small compared to the general populace. After much thought, they came to something they thought everyone could identify with. The kid and his first car. Why would he want a car? For the girl of course. It's just an odd twist that the kid's camaro is actually a sentient 30 ft robot that's trying to save the universe.

Come T2, they now had a bigger built in audience and some connection with the robot protagonist so I assumed they felt safer (though it was still a bad idea) to focus less on the human story and more on the aliens.

T3, they fixed it and went back to the human element again. Kid out of college trying to start a life. I think it was just way too long. Most of my friends were ambivalent to it, but I think if they cut 30 minutes out they'd go from an ok movie to a stellar one.
 
I think the more damaging trend is in the action sequences where:

-No one is any real danger (except inanimate objects).
-Stuff explodes and flies about at a frantic pace.
-There is no characterisation within the action (i.e. Transformers transform, Hulk smashes, Rihanna shouts but no sense of investment in the character (during that scene)).

I think my main problem though, is the length of these scenes. Some of them are twenty or thirty minutes long and it's really hard to keep something visually interesting for that long.

I don't know how many of you have seen The Raid yet but it's awesome. Some of the fight scenes are really long but because we're really rooting for the characters and the choreography is so ingenious and inventive (not to mention the fact that our protagonists are in very real danger and the outcome is not a foregone conclusion) it feels so much better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWlmhMSnVdM
 
NickClapper,

Right on target. I cared about the characters! I enjoyed THE RAID. Was a well-done story, with believable characters, arcs, plot and quality action sequences. Gave it a solid A.
 
NickClapper said:
-There is no characterisation within the action (i.e. ... Rihanna shouts).
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Hahaha, very nice. It's true, the best movies are the ones where you end up with a strong emotional attachment to the character(s), and you need all 90-240 minutes of screen time for proper character development to happen, which means it needs to be happening during the 45 minute long action scenes as well. This is why most sequels (at least IMO) fall short of their original. You get to develop a character from scratch in the beginning (even somewhat shallow, stereotyped ones) but you have to enter a sequel with the development of the first fresh in your mind.

That isn't true in epics where the arc takes place over several movies, like LOTR.

On a somewhat related note, I bought tickets Friday for an avengers marathon at a local theater... Iron Man, Hulk, Iron Man 2, Thor, Captain America ending with the Avengers premiere at midnight. It's 743 minutes of awesome haha.
 
PaulGriffith said:
On a somewhat related note, I bought tickets Friday for an avengers marathon at a local theater... Iron Man, Hulk, Iron Man 2, Thor, Captain America ending with the Avengers premiere at midnight. It's 743 minutes of awesome haha.
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I do not envy you, sir! :D

The Ed Norton Hulk is terrible (although Mark Ruffalo is very good in The Avengers ) and they should show Ang Lee's version instead. Iron Man 2 is just terrible and The Avengers is less good than Iron Man, Thor or Captain America (maybe on par with Cap but given the hype it feels worse).

There you go, enjoy your evening ;)
 
Just a follow up, the marathon was actually way better than I thought it would be. Seein everything back to back made the Avengers that much more incredible too.

Oh yeah, I loved the Avengers. Saw it for a second time last night. The action wasn't long/boring to me at all (like Transformers 3 was) because the characters and dialogue kept it interesting. It was Joss Whedon all the way, all the clever one liners in between action felt like they could have been Nathan Fillion on Firefly.

It's an amazing, fun movie that I'm sure I'll end up seeing again in theaters.

Relevant to topic, the story/characters/dialogue is why made the ending long fight scene standout from the crazy long T3 one. Plus, it wasn't wall to wall action, there was plenty of developer and downtime in between. Even in the middle of a big fight they take one to regroup.

Love it, love the franchise. Can't wait for more. This is the Hollywood action blockbuster done right!
 
I saw Avengers for the 2nd time yesterday. I agree with 100% of Paul's assessment. Whedon's writing is perfect. Hulk vs. Loki had the audience in uproar.

Note to anyone who is yet to see it: stay ALL THE WAY until the very end.
 
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