To PAY or not to PAY actors?

M

Madlabent

Lets say that you are making a low budget independent film that will only cover necessary materials, and film festival expenses. Should you pay the actors who have worked on the film even if you plan to self-distribute it or four-wall theaters yourself once it is completed?

There seems to be three different options that we can approach:

1-Pay actors upfront
2-Give Credit Only or Credit and a Copy of the Film
3-No Upfront pay, but Deferred pay on the backend per certain conditions.

Which scenario is the best for an independent film that is self-distributed?
 
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If you can afford to pay them, then pay them. If not, then they likely aren't known actors yet, so they understand that they'll have to do some free gigs to work their way up.

If you think the film will do well financially, offer them a backend deal
 
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itschrisreed said:
You can't just not pay people. Its illegal.
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Please explain.

I'll give you an example:

I make a short film over a four day weekend. 12 crew (not including
me) and 7 actors. I expect four 12 hours days and I tell these 19 people
I will not pay them, I will not offer points and their pay is not deferred.
I tell them I will feed them a "walking" breakfast and 6 hours after the
call time a hot lunch.

If you can, please tell me what laws I am breaking.
 
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directorik said:
Please explain.

I'll give you an example:

I make a short film over a four day weekend. 12 crew (not including
me) and 7 actors. I expect four 12 hours days and I tell these 19 people
I will not pay them, I will not offer points and their pay is not deferred.
I tell them I will feed them a "walking" breakfast and 6 hours after the
call time a hot lunch.

If you can, please tell me what laws I am breaking.
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You are under arrest.
 
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let me answer this question AS an Actor myself.... and also film maker...

If you have money for festivals... You should have money to pay the actors... Actors make your film, your film will be nothing without the actors... Directors are the least needed, if the director doesnt show up on set, the film will still be made.

if you have no budget, then that is understandable... if you have budget to pay the crew you should have budget to pay the cast, otherwise you will not be respected as a film maker

with question like this don't you even try to come to the UK, you will be the most slagged off independent film maker... I learnt my lesson.
 
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LDS said:
Directors are the least needed, if the director doesnt show up on set, the film will still be made.
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lamastare.gif
 
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If you have money for festivals... You should have money to pay the actors... Actors make your film, your film will be nothing without the actors... Directors are the least needed, if the director doesnt show up on set, the film will still be made.

if you have no budget, then that is understandable... if you have budget to pay the crew you should have budget to pay the cast, otherwise you will not be respected as a film maker
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Everyone thinks their role is the most important. The soundie, the actors, catering, the director, the DOP, camera operator, the ADs, production designer, producer, writers, publicist, security, transport and so on.

The truth of the matter, every position on a film crew is important. If it wasn't, that position would no longer exist. Just because not everyone has to be on set 100% of the time doesn't make their position any less important.

As for money, every production is different. Productions range from high budget studio productions where everyone gets paid all the way down to zero budget productions, where there is no money to pay people. It's ideal that everyone gets paid. Not every production is in the position to do so.

I do agree with one sentiment that you have. If you pay some people, everyone should get paid.
 
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I paid all my actors. It raised the calibre of actors who auditioned. I asked that they invoice me at the end of the shoot.

In the end, three of my leads declined to invoice me at all because they felt respected and well cared for as performers. This was incredibly rewarding to me as a Director; possibly the best compliment they could have paid me.

BTW, I spent big on food.
 
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mad_hatter said:
???

How so?
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director is there just to say, YES or NO, I LIKE IT, I DON'T LIKE IT... It's the crew who do the job, the cinematographer who tells the Director what are the best shots, the producer who does the pre-production, the casting director who finds actors, the costume who design the costume, the make up who suggests the look, the set designer who designs the set, the light person who sets the mood... and then the director decides YES or NO, I LIKE IT, I DON'T LIKE IT... If the director doesn't turn up on set for few days... It's the crew that will still move on with the production...
if the actor doesnt show up... production is stopped... same with all the other crew.

Every director in Hollywood says the same thing... Directors are just to decide what fits their stories, the crew do the rest. If the director dies... they find new director... if the actor dies... production is stopped and re-shot (depends on how much they filmed and spent money on and if they still have some left)
 
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If the director dies... they find new director...
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That happens with all crew. Not a very convincing argument ;)

So accountants are on the same page as actors in terms of importance. They stop turning up, the pay checks stop going out, the production stops... hmm....

Probably the same with the AD department.
 
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Sweetie said:
That happens with all crew. Not a very convincing argument ;)

So accountants are on the same page as actors in terms of importance. They stop turning up, the pay checks stop going out, the production stops... hmm....

Probably the same with the AD department.
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:weird: if accountants won't turn up, they will find another one within couple of hours, same goes to the rest of the crew (but still can't replace them in just couple of hours), but that wasn't my point... my point was, production does NOT need director... they do NOT have to replace him when he does not show up on a day... they will STILL move on without ANY director (producers can manage the production)... if actor won't turn up on set on a day... the shoot is over... they can not replace an actor in couple of hours no matter what... unless they re-shot the whole thing months later THAT is my point!

but Im not going to go into deep discussion on film making forum because I will be (if not already) named the biggest idiot on here :cool: most of you are film makers/directors so yeah... the truth hurt and it is hard to be accepted ;) :cool:
 
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the shoot is over...
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(but still can't replace them in just couple of hours)
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Oh no, the AD's must have gone brain dead and couldn't find something else to shoot. If your AD's are on the ball and somewhat anticipated the issue, had a backup plan and a backup plan for the backup plan, you just move to the backup, continue shooting while the problem is being sorted or the issue replaced. Maybe you've been taught different.

unless they re-shot the whole thing months later THAT is my point!
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Oh, so unless they replace the actor, they cannot replace the actor... Gotcha! Admitidly it's more painful to replace a lead actor the further into a production you are than it is to replace a crew member, they're still replaceable.

the biggest idiot
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No one's calling you an idiot. I don't agree with your opinions, that's all.
 
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LDS said:
but Im not going to go into deep discussion on film making forum because I will be (if not already) named the biggest idiot on here...
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No.
There are other much more qualified members here than you. :yes:

That said...

I've long found it bizarre at the no-budget filmmaking level that director/producers understand that retailers will not sell them equipment, props, or costumes without payment, and festivals or VOD aggregators will not consider their finished product without payment, but to play poor man with cast and crew seems unquestionably disingenuous.

I understand volunteer labor means just that, that credits & copy means that's acceptable, that a producer might have some quasi-responsibty to spend money as sparingly as legally required, and that when there's no hope for any meaningful revenue then that's the situation.

But it just seems peculiarly unbalanced that some parties are unquestionably expected to be paid while other parities are wildly speculative on fair/just compensation.
 
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