This is why you buy the T2i.

All you rich folk (no disparity intended), with your expensive light gear, expensive crew, expensive camera, can take your expensive time shooting. Us poor folk need to move things along at a little bit more of a rapid pace. I'm not saying I wouldn't trade places with you. I'm just saying.

Anyway, the following was shot with nothing more than a regular-old household ceiling-lamp, on the T2i. No, of course it doesn't get as good a shot as any of the aforementioned expensive setup. But if you're really in a rush, and you can't do all that time-consuming expensive stuff, and/or don't have access to the needed gear, imagine how great it is to setup a scene by flipping a switch. Try getting something like this, under the same conditions, with a traditional HDV camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHhmXC6h1Ao
 
I've learnt alot about lightning from reading this thread, thanks everyone. Good stuff to know before i've even started my first short.

I'm so tempted to go for a DSLR as opposed to a 3CCD minidv, but I want to know how much more taxing it is on the computer in post/editing? I'm running a 3/4 yr old computer which I built myself, and I've looked after it well. Will be using external HD's for storage of footage, which I think will life some of the workload. Any advice?
 
I've learnt alot about lightning from reading this thread, thanks everyone. Good stuff to know before i've even started my first short.

I'm so tempted to go for a DSLR as opposed to a 3CCD minidv, but I want to know how much more taxing it is on the computer in post/editing? I'm running a 3/4 yr old computer which I built myself, and I've looked after it well. Will be using external HD's for storage of footage, which I think will life some of the workload. Any advice?

I'm not an expert, but I believe that if your computer can handle HD (3ccd), then it can handle DSLR HD footage.
 
I'm not an expert, but I believe that if your computer can handle HD (3ccd), then it can handle DSLR HD footage.
3CCDs aren't necessarily HD. The old Panasonic 3CCDs from before ~2006 were all SD CCD cameras.

You'll want a quadcore machine to edit on. It can be done on a dualcore, but it's so much smoother and faster on a quadcore.

Oh, and why are you having to shoot so quickly? I can't imagine that sacrificing image quality that much for a few minutes saved filming scenes is worth it.
 
Danjama, M1chae1,
I think your talking past each other. danjama is using HD for hard disk, and I think M1chae1 is assuming that danjama is currently working in high def (HD). The 3CCD miniDV is most likely not an High Def camera, where a DSLR will be (or can be). Going form SD to HD(high Definition) will indeed require more from your computer system.
 
NathanH,
That is a great example. Found lighting that is INTERESTING is always a great find. Having the sensitivity of the dlsr sensor increases the likely hood of having usable found lighting.
 
Danjama, M1chae1,
I think your talking past each other. danjama is using HD for hard disk, and I think M1chae1 is assuming that danjama is currently working in high def (HD). The 3CCD miniDV is most likely not an High Def camera, where a DSLR will be (or can be). Going form SD to HD(high Definition) will indeed require more from your computer system.

This is correct, sorry for any confusion. When I say 3CCD, as said, i'm referring to earlier miniDV camcorders such as the Panasonic NV GS family, or even the SD Canon XL family. I meant HD as hard drive, as opposed to the 720p HD of a DSLR.

Is there any sort of test result available, to show the difference of workload between HD and SD editing on various processors? Would be very helpful.

I'm running an overclocked athlon XP 3200@2.4GHZ. I know it's old but don't have the money for a new computer build, and it's reliable.
 
This is correct, sorry for any confusion. When I say 3CCD, as said, i'm referring to earlier miniDV camcorders such as the Panasonic NV GS family, or even the SD Canon XL family. I meant HD as hard drive, as opposed to the 720p HD of a DSLR.

Is there any sort of test result available, to show the difference of workload between HD and SD editing on various processors? Would be very helpful.

I'm running an overclocked athlon XP 3200@2.4GHZ. I know it's old but don't have the money for a new computer build, and it's reliable.

My buddy has a 3ccd 720p HD cam...thought it was along those lines.
 
Buddy, we're getting audio with the Zoom H4n.

Wombat, my actors have lives. Jobs. Future-careers they're excited to getting started. I'm a regular-old working-class Average-Joe. For us, the difference between a three- or five-week shoot is huge. I don't think I could afford a five-week shoot. And considering the (far less than minimum) wage I'm paying them, I don't know if their patience would hold up for a full-time five-week shoot. And yes, we are shooting that much faster than the average shoot. We just shot more than 8 pages in 9 hours. And again, that's including rehearsal time. No way in hell is that possible if I have to worry about cinematography.

I'm not discounting what it is that so many of you are really good at. I wish I had the time (and expertise) to work better cinematography into my movie. This isn't my first video, guys. Yes, I've messed with lighting before. And I don't seem to be good at it, not like you guys are. There isn't anyone in here conceited enough to think that they're good at EVERYTHING, is there? Of course not. We all have our strengths, and I know mine. So, let's stay on point. This thread is about the strengths of the T2i. Not whether or not I should be spending more time on my shoot.

Anyway, the shoot is going F-ing awesome. I love my cast. And this camera rocks.

Danjama, when it comes to editing HD video, they aren't all the same, not at all. HDV is a completely different format. ALL major software suites will edit HDV. Barely any will edit in the mov. format, which is what the Canon DSLRs record in. Most DSLR users are using high-end editing software (Avid Media Composer), but even then, they still have to convert the mov. format to another one that edits better, and the format that they're converting to takes up way more hard drive space. I found Edius. It edits in native mov., without any converting. The full version is, I dunno, somewhere in the $600 range maybe? I have the lite version, but it's pretty functional for a lite version, it edits in native mov., and it's barely more than $100.

Also, danjama, it's worth asking what you intend to use this for. Are you only shooting narrative videos? Then it's a terrific investment for your dollars. Are you going to shoot documentaries? For talking-heads, this is THE camera, I wouldn't consider any others. Do you want to shoot weddings and other events? Maybe not such a great idea.

EDIT: By the way, some of what you guys have been mentioning are good ideas, but I don't think you're fully taking into account the logistics of a two-man crew. Me (director/camera) and another dude (boom-op). That's what I've got. So, for example, who's gonna hold the bounce card?!
 
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Danjama, when it comes to editing HD video, they aren't all the same, not at all. HDV is a completely different format. ALL major software suites will edit HDV. Barely any will edit in the mov. format, which is what the Canon DSLRs record in. Most DSLR users are using high-end editing software (Avid Media Composer), but even then, they still have to convert the mov. format to another one that edits better, and the format that they're converting to takes up way more hard drive space. I found Edius. It edits in native mov., without any converting. The full version is, I dunno, somewhere in the $600 range maybe? I have the lite version, but it's pretty functional for a lite version, it edits in native mov., and it's barely more than $100.

Just to clear things up a little - a .mov file is like an .avi in that it's just a wrapper, and the video could be encoded in a variety of formats. The files from the Canon DSLRs have a .mov wrapper and are encoded with the H.264 codec, but the same extension is given to ProRes and AIC files, which are easily edited natively in Final Cut Pro. (Technically it is just about possible to edit with H.264 in FCP, but it's very slow and usually results in a lot of crashes.)

EDIT: By the way, some of what you guys have been mentioning are good ideas, but I don't think you're fully taking into account the logistics of a two-man crew. Me (director/camera) and another dude (boom-op). That's what I've got. So, for example, who's gonna hold the bounce card?!

Lean it against a chair?
 
The files from the Canon DSLRs have a .mov wrapper and are encoded with the H.264 codec, but the same extension is given to ProRes and AIC files, which are easily edited natively in Final Cut Pro.

I wasn't aware of the wrapper distinction, however, he mentioned that he built his own computer, so I summised he's a PC guy, and therefore not able to use Final Cut. DSLR editing options on the PC are more limited.
 
Shoot on weekends...that's what we do, and as long as you have a good work ethic, and stick to your guns, you can completely work around a 9-5.

And Cracker, you *have* to worry about cinematography...that's one of the biggest potions of filmmaking...heck...that *is* filmmaking.

You can still light with a small crew--you should get some kind of c-stand. Get a rig to hold flags or bounce cards. But I wouldn't so much worry about bounce cards just yet...I would worry about getting some lights in the room...key...fill...rim. It will look so much better instantly...the bounce cards are for detail in the lighting...but at last you can start with the basics.
 
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Shoot on weekends...that's what we do, and as long as you have a good work ethic, and stick to your guns, you can completely work around a 9-5.

Even at a very fast shooting-pace, you'd be talking at LEAST half a year to wrap a feature, just shooting on weekends. Then, take into account the fact that my actors and myself have lives, we're not all going to always be available on weekends, in fact, I'm a bartender. No way. I'm not going to shoot a movie over half a freaking year.

And no, cinematography isn't all that filmmaking *is*. According to your logic, movies like "Puffy Chair" and "Baghead" are worthless, then. I would strongly disagree. Like I said -- more than one way to skin a cat. This is storytelling. And there's more than one way to tell a story.

EDIT: And again, you guys are giving advice on something that I've not asked advice on. I conciously decided to ignore any real cinematography to wrap this thing at a very rapid pace. I'm not so naive on this matter. I've chosen a different route than you. I'm sure there are plenty of things we do differently. This thread isn't about my filmmaking preferences -- it's about the awesomeness of the T2i.

EDIT AGAIN: It might sound like it, but I'm not annoyed by your advice. Heck, this entire forum is all about advice, no? Plus, your comments saved me from shooting without really knowing how to properly focus on my camera. That would've been lame. I'm just saying that it feels like you're not giving me the freedom to make decisions that you clearly strongly disagree with. But filmmaking is personal. Everyone shouldn't do everything the same. You do things your way, I'll do things my way, and the world will be a better place for it. Heck, when you see my final product, you might understand my logic. Or, maybe you'll still say what I'm doing is lame. Either way, I don't think it's fair for you to say that my decisions are mistakes, cuz you're not me and thus don't see the bigger picture of my production.

Cheers!
 
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I wasn't aware of the wrapper distinction, however, he mentioned that he built his own computer, so I summised he's a PC guy, and therefore not able to use Final Cut. DSLR editing options on the PC are more limited.

Was just meant as an example :) I haven't edited anything on a PC in yonks, so I've no idea what codecs are used for editing DSLR footage on them (though obviously ProRes and AIC are no use there).
 
Cracker, we all know the T2i is awesome. So this would be a boring thread if we all just agreed!

If anything your post shows that a great camera does not a GREAT shot make. You have no illusion that your takes are great shots, what I hear you saying is "that with the limitations I have, these shots are good enough."


This is where I like to jump in.. I believe that limitations are the mother of creativity, so I, and most others I guess, are suggesting how EVEN with your limitations, a little MORE effort and time would have turned your "good enough" shots to "great shots!"

I only want you to be great! I believe in you!
 
Sorry to jump in semi-off topic, but I’m trying to get my head around the best way to edit from t2i (on pc) with CS3. Should/Can the files be converted to something more non-super computer manageable or CS3 friendly? If so, to what and with what?

-Thanks-
 
Even at a very fast shooting-pace, you'd be talking at LEAST half a year to wrap a feature, just shooting on weekends. Then, take into account the fact that my actors and myself have lives, we're not all going to always be available on weekends, in fact, I'm a bartender. No way. I'm not going to shoot a movie over half a freaking year.

And no, cinematography isn't all that filmmaking *is*. According to your logic, movies like "Puffy Chair" and "Baghead" are worthless, then. I would strongly disagree. Like I said -- more than one way to skin a cat. This is storytelling. And there's more than one way to tell a story.

EDIT: And again, you guys are giving advice on something that I've not asked advice on. I conciously decided to ignore any real cinematography to wrap this thing at a very rapid pace. I'm not so naive on this matter. I've chosen a different route than you. I'm sure there are plenty of things we do differently. This thread isn't about my filmmaking preferences -- it's about the awesomeness of the T2i.

EDIT AGAIN: It might sound like it, but I'm not annoyed by your advice. Heck, this entire forum is all about advice, no? Plus, your comments saved me from shooting without really knowing how to properly focus on my camera. That would've been lame. I'm just saying that it feels like you're not giving me the freedom to make decisions that you clearly strongly disagree with. But filmmaking is personal. Everyone shouldn't do everything the same. You do things your way, I'll do things my way, and the world will be a better place for it. Heck, when you see my final product, you might understand my logic. Or, maybe you'll still say what I'm doing is lame. Either way, I don't think it's fair for you to say that my decisions are mistakes, cuz you're not me and thus don't see the bigger picture of my production.

Cheers!


We shoot our features (weekends only) in around 4 months. Usually we finish and premiere a feature a year, and have already begun shooting the next feature while in post on the previous one. I'm not saying we are better than you...I'm saying that with solid scheduling, preproduction, creativity, skill, and dedication, it can be done.

If you're a bartender and work on the weekends...then that's not going to work. Usually, indies shoot on the weekends because the majority of the actors *are* available then. If they can't break away from their 'lives', then you might want to recast and get actors that make themselves available.

If you want to ignore the filmmaking basics and shoot at your own pace and style...you go to town. Yes there have been well-produced examples of this...but that's typically not the norm. And you first have to fully understand the rules before you can break them.

I realize this topic seems to have gone off topic...but it really hasn't. It's still talking about the look of the T2i, in relation to your clip and your shooting style.

Just trying to help man.
 
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Sorry to jump in semi-off topic, but I’m trying to get my head around the best way to edit from t2i (on pc) with CS3. Should/Can the files be converted to something more non-super computer manageable or CS3 friendly? If so, to what and with what?

-Thanks-

Cineform will help with this too. I use it for AVHCD but the web site says..

With Neo Scene you will convert your difficult-to-edit HDV, AVCHD, Canon 5D Mk II / 7D or T2i camera footage to CineForm AVI or MOV files and then benefit from the same theatrical quality and real-time editing performance as professionals.

http://www.cineform.com/neoscene/

Hope that helps
 
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