The security of online outlets(youtube, ect)

[Tinalera]

I was encouraged to make a thread on this:

I'm wanting to put one of my short films on the internet to be viewed(and if anyone here wants to watch as well )

But how secure are places like Vimeo, Youtube, ect? Not that I think my stuff is worth ripping a copy of(hardly), but is security in place that people can only watch, and not try to download from these sites(yea, I know, a pitfall of filmmaking these days).

Just wondering what sites you'd recommend for a first timer like myself with this? Also, a slightly related question: how is it that people can make their own film on youtube with music from popular bands-surely these people don't have the thousands to pay royalties? Or does youtube tend to have a blanket coverage for the majority of music?

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Ernest Worthing]

I was encouraged to make a thread on this:

I'm wanting to put one of my short films on the internet to be viewed(and if anyone here wants to watch as well )

But how secure are places like Vimeo, Youtube, ect? Not that I think my stuff is worth ripping a copy of(hardly), but is security in place that people can only watch, and not try to download from these sites(yea, I know, a pitfall of filmmaking these days).

Just wondering what sites you'd recommend for a first timer like myself with this? Also, a slightly related question: how is it that people can make their own film on youtube with music from popular bands-surely these people don't have the thousands to pay royalties? Or does youtube tend to have a blanket coverage for the majority of music?

Any advice would be appreciated.

One can download from anywhere if they know what they are doing. And youtube is probably the easiest place to download from. One can just use Youtube Downloader and thats it.

You can even download from facebook by using a certain free plug in through Mozilla Firefox.

And using screen capturing programs, even Quicktime videos (or any other, for that matter) are not safe.

Mind you, IIIIIIII have never downloaded anything illegally. NEVER...... *cough*

So i wouldnt bother trying to find "the most secure" site where ppl wouldnt be able to download from. Bc it doesnt exist. If you find one, let me know.

On the other hand, im not sure why you are worried about ppl downloading your short. They won't be able to use it for any large commercial purposes. In the most extreme of cases, perhaps they could make a few dvd's and sell them to some friends or something. But anything, such as using your short in a film festival, or selling it through stores would not work. You would be able to sue if it came to that and the evidence you would have would surely make you win.

Think about it, the downloader only has the final copy of the product. You will have such things as the original footage, behind the scenes camera pics, any documents you made your actors sign, and the ppl who would worked with you who could say it belonged to you.

In any case, if you feel uneasy about it. You can always copyright your short, even though technically, the copyright comes into effect when the short is made. You can even place that little "c" symbol to deter ppl.



As for the ppl who use music in their youtube videos, they are doing so illegally. If the musicians or their production companies wanted to pursue the copyright infringers (is that even a word? Hmmm...) they could do so.

 

[directorik]

But how secure are places like Vimeo, Youtube, ect? Not that I think my stuff is worth ripping a copy of(hardly), but is security in place that people can only watch, and not try to download from these sites(yea, I know, a pitfall of filmmaking these days).

Not secure at all. Anyone can download anything

how is it that people can make their own film on youtube with music from popular bands-surely these people don't have the thousands to pay royalties? Or does youtube tend to have a blanket coverage for the majority of music?

YouTube does not have any blanket coverage for music
usage. The filmmakers who are using music in their
movies are doing it illegally. Some are caught, some
aren't.

 

[backlash]

Everything that is on the net can be downloaded. This is the principle that you need to keep in mind.

Youtube doens't allow to download other people's movies, but there are software that allow to do it. The same applies to all the other streaming platforms.

Regarding copyright issues some reviews are made and people can be flagged. Sometimes they are reviewed and removed. Note that there are thousands of hours of video uploaded everyday in youtube, so they can't review them all. This is why many people get away with the copyright issues.

On the other side, youtube doesn't really review the content, if a video gets flagged generally they just remove it without reason to avoid any blame on their side.

Sharing your film in youtube/vimeo aims to let people know about it, so if they want to copy it from one place to another, let them do it. If it becomes so popular it might allow you to work on something more commercial next time. Bear in mind that most popular videos in youtube are simply crap.

We always use (c) logos in our films, this gives you legal rights over your film, so if someone uses it commercially you can sue them.

 

[wheatgrinder]

Vimeo promotes the ability to download the original source movies, in fact, if you pay for membership they will keep the source movies online indefinitely, if your basic "free" member, they go away after some weeks..

The world is feeling its way through this, which is a very interesting shift, its a good time to be alive, when our grand kids are older this question will be settled...

Its not just you and your movies, its music, books, other movies, software.. basically anything that can be transited digitally and is on the net has to consider this aspect.

There are a lot of interesting things happening in this area.. did you notice that iTune dropped DRM (Digital Rights Management) from iTunes content.. it was a waste of time and effort.. if you want to copy your "purchased" music it was easy, just burn a CD and re import.. iTune HELPED with this by having an easy "burn cd" button.. Software companies are playing a nasty game, many of the WAREZ versions of software are put out BY the software company, chuck full of virus and malware, some with "hey I downloaded this illegal software, come and get me code..."

Other NASTY tricks are that new HDMI monitors are coming out with chips that PREVENT them from displaying unlicensed content (see HDCP)

Who knows how it will all shake out.. seems to me that the revenue models will simply change. Consider LINUX software.. sure its free, you can download it etc.. but if you want tech support, then you pay. Or if you want a VERSION that is tight, bug free, etc.. and dont have the requisite skills to roll your own, you can BUY a version that is based on the FREE stuff. For big companies, the TCO or "Total Cost of Ownership" of software has VERY litte to do with how much you paid for the box.. its how much IT support you need for your customers to work, so even though I can download linux for free and maybe save my company a million dollors, its going to cost us WAY more to support an OPEN system like that, vs a locked down windows XP... this is working, lots of BIG money being made.

I was touching on how movie makers might try something along those lines. Release online a "lower quality" version (could just be low quality video, but could also be less actually scenes, etc) for free, dont bother to secure it. Deliver High Quality, premium content through other channels, for a fee.

crazy

 

[Tinalera]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback, quite a bit of information to digest. But, essentially, if its going to get copied, it will get copied. I have my security of original footage, ect, to back me up if it comes to that.

Like I said, I don't think the short is really worth the trouble(lighting issues to start ), but I think it was more to do with intellectual property stuff- but, as was rightly pointed out, I've got proof I had this long before they used it, so okay . Trust me, when people see it on here, they'll be "he was worried about THAT?!!" LOL

Just have to check which I would prefer, youtube, Vimeo, whoever else. I guess it is the idea of getting it out there and people seeing it, as has been suggested.

I already have an account with Youtube for watching stuff and commenting. I guess I could plaster my short on there for a start, and then I guess I would just link it for those in indietalk to see(I'll have to read over the posting rules again).

We really are entering an interesting age, where anything can be obtained music, movie, game wise with a few simple mouse clicks.


Wheatgrinder-I'm thinking the saem on the "low quality" film release for free-let people see if they like the film, and let them decide if they want to buy it/go to the theatre to watch it. It strikes me, from what I've seen, is that a lot of people who watch these online films either want to do just that, or want to be one of the "I saw it before it was released" crowd...which is fine I guess....

BTW-anyone want to guess how far we are right now from the idea of "film direct to computer from studio" and bypassing the movie theatre? I guess when they feel that EVERYONE has access to internet, but I'm suspecting that, as computer and TV technologies get better(they're making 3D TVs now-not the greatest, and you need glasses, but they're there)-I'm saying in 20 years, it wouldn't surprise me to see the latest 3D film uploaded right to our computer/televison(with full movie experience), and we would pay a monthly fee to the studios to watch them.

Unfortunately, the movie theatre experience will become a distant memory in this scenario.

 

[Gonzo_Entertainment]

"Unfortunately, the movie theatre experience will become a distant memory in this scenario."

Never happen. No window between theatre release and DVD release (or whatever media evolves), sure, already headed that direction. A contraction of the theatre market where it becomes a little more "niche" than it is now, very possible. However, as you just said yourself, it's the movie theatre "experience" that people pay for. The giant screen, the communal experience, the fresh popcorn, can't be duplicated at home.

 

[wheatgrinder]

I think the point about the "theater" experience is proven true by the premium prices we (and I mean the royal we) are willing to pay for tickets, concessions, etc.

Tehcnology will either
A: Improve
B: Stay the same
C: Degrade

In either scenario, the theater will allways be where we experince the BEST tech for entertainment.. sure we can might have HUGE VR rigs at home.. but the BEST will still require a night out..

 

[Tinalera]

I think the point about the "theater" experience is proven true by the premium prices we (and I mean the royal we) are willing to pay for tickets, concessions, etc.

Tehcnology will either
A: Improve
B: Stay the same
C: Degrade

In either scenario, the theater will allways be where we experince the BEST tech for entertainment.. sure we can might have HUGE VR rigs at home.. but the BEST will still require a night out..

I hope you both are right. I agree people who do love the experience, and maybe it's more about narrowing into niche rather than disappearing (I hadn't thought of that). It s still a social experience too. I just wondered how many people would forgo the theatre when they can have a brand new release on the computer/HD TV at home with the same experience.

There is something to be said for the theatre screen size and sound though. We'll have to see what it brings-but you give me hope

 

[wheatgrinder]

Yes I am a prophet..

I do note an increase in theaters where you can sit and eat\drink meals. McMinimums chain here in Oregon does that.. Similarly at the BIG MEGAPLEX, I like to get the mini pizza at Regal Cinemas.. it takes like 10mins to prepare and they bring it me while the movie is playing.. this seems to show that theaters are on the ball in staying relevant.. Perhaps these are a sign of things to come..

I believe the remaining entertainment outlets have learned a lesson from the Hollywood Video vs NetFlix battle...

 

[Tinalera]

I know it's interesting what's happening here in my part of Canada.

The older multiplex theatres are being phased out slowly-unfortunately they tend to be the ones with "personality". I worked at the Uptown at Yonge and Bloor in Toronto-beautiful building loved working there, only had 3 screens, no wheelchair access. Eventually, they tore it down, would have cost far too much to renovate. Other single and 4-5 screen cinemas are meeting the same fate.

In their places(except Uptown, I that's condos or something now)are these huge 8,10,12,20 screen theatres that, like where you are, have fast food(burgers, pizzas, tacos, you name it)from brand name chains. The seats are hugely comfortable and they also bring food to you. Unfortunately some of them(I'm looking at YOU Paramount Toronto) they've gone to the point of gaudy IMO. But that does support the idea of making the movies "an experience". Although up here we regularly get coupons in the cereal for free admission to the theatres to encourage people to go.

Call me hiding a rock, but what happened in that battle? I know Nexflix was involved in some battle about it...I'll have to google it.

 

[Tinalera]

Keeping back in touch the original topic....


If i go youtube, I'm going to have to make another copy in a different format, aren't I?(currently it's in a WMA format-it hasn't gone past my computer, with the exception of sending a copy through sendit to a couple of people for opinions.

 

[Graeme]

First - Nothing beats watching a movie in a movie theater.

Second & Back on Topic - That said if your putting a video online, it can be stolen. Anything online can be stolen with the right software or OS. Some sites make it harder than others but DATA is DATA.

If you put something online it can and likely will be at some point stolen, its something you have to accept and live with if you want to put your video online. Now that said the hope is enough people will see your stuff, and you will get ad-revenue (don't get ad revenue? see blip.tv), and people wanting to buy your DVD to counter-act the people who do take your video for free.

Its all about exposure and getting 1000 to pay you a dollar rather than convincing 10 people to pay you $100 each. And for the people who steal it, well if they weren't going to pay a dollar for it, there is no way they would pay $100.

The only concern I have is if someone stole a movie and tried to pawn it off as there own or tried to make money off my content, but then there are copyright laws in placed to help mitigate that.

 

[Tinalera]

First - Nothing beats watching a movie in a movie theater.

Second & Back on Topic - That said if your putting a video online, it can be stolen. Anything online can be stolen with the right software or OS. Some sites make it harder than others but DATA is DATA.

If you put something online it can and likely will be at some point stolen, its something you have to except and live with if you want to put your video online. Now that said the hope is enough people will see your stuff, and you will get ad-revenue (don't get ad revenue? see blip.tv), and people wanting to buy your DVD to counter-act the people who do take your video for free.

Its all about exposure and getting 1000 to pay you a dollar rather than convincing 10 people to pay you $100 each. And for the people who steal it, well if they weren't going to pay a dollar for it, there is no way they would pay $100.

The only concern I have is if someone stole a movie and tried to pawn it off as there own or tried to make money off my content, but then there are copyright laws in placed to help mitigate that.

Thanks. I think part of what I'm going through too is a bit of anxiety-I've never posted anything of mine online. Like I said, looking at it, I'm probably making a huge mountain out a molehill. It's a 10 min rough short that I know what I am thinking of doing a LOT better work with-learning stuff since then-we aren't exactly talking Oscar material here -more like "hey, your first short film! Welcome to Filmmaking Newbie school"