Sundance - Not reaaaaally for independent films

M

MadMan

Sundance is known as the place where independent films are shown and the producers try to get distribution... But I looked at the line-up of films that were at sundance this year and, even though they did'nt have a very big budget, and have no distribution, i wouldn't go ahead and call them indie. Let me show you what I'm talking about:
Welcome to the Rileys, starring Kristen Stewart and James Gandolfini. Both famous.
The Runaways, starring Kristen Stewart and Dakota Fanning. Both famous.
Hesher, starring Joseph GordoN Levitt. Famous.
Blue Valentine. Starring Ryan Gosling. Famous.

Now off the top of my head, previous sundance films... Reservoir Dogs, starring Harvey Keitel. Famous.
Garden State. Starring Zach Braff and Natalie Portman. Both Famous.
Little Miss Sunshine. Starring Steve Carell. Famous.

I guess The Blair Witch Project is one i can think of that really was indie....


Has there ever been a film accepted to screen at sundance (and even gotten a distribution deal) that had no known actors, writer(s) or director(s)? Does it happen often? Or am i wasting my time submitting it to sundance? Do they only consider films with known actors/filmmakers? Does it help my chances of getting accepted if i start alot of positive buzz (possibly online) first?
 
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answers to the riddle

MadMan said:
Has there ever been a film accepted to screen at sundance (and even gotten a distribution deal) that had no known actors, writer(s) or director(s)? Does it happen often? Or am i wasting my time submitting it to sundance? Do they only consider films with known actors/filmmakers? Does it help my chances of getting accepted if i start alot of positive buzz (possibly online) first?
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CLERKS - no name stars

SLACKER - no name stars

EL MARIACHI - no name stars

OPEN WATER - no name stars

NAPOLEON DYNAMITE - no big name stars (debatable because of Jon Gries & Diedrich Bader)

ROGER & ME - documentary with no stars

SPANKING THE MONKEY - no name stars

BROTHER'S MCMULLEN - no name stars

at least they weren't name stars AT THE TIME they played Sundance.

and the list goes on, but in your defense, these were no just submitted with a check. They got submitted by someone close to the selection committee's and friends of the programming department at Sundance.

Read SPIKE MIKE SLACKERS AND DYKES by John Pierson. It will open your eyes as to how Sundance selects it's movies. It should come as no surprise that most of the biggest names to go from Zero to Hero in indie film were represented by the John Sloss law firm, who represented each of those films in negotiation at Sundance?
 
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Sundance

Living here in Utah I can say that getting something submitted at tSundance is near impossible without inside help and some cashflow on top. Sundance operates on the idea of being an independent festival however it is far from it. Two months ago I met with the govenor of the state in regards to independent film makers here in Utah and the festival stuff.
In the state of Utah it has always been who you know and how much funding you have. In meeting with the govenor and a representative of the office of economic development I was told that they were unaware of the issues that independent film makers deal with. Another indie film maker and I where assured that these things would be addressed promptly.
Two weeks later we had a meeting with the film commision here, one of the people there pretty much stated that they prefer not to deal with film makers with less than a TWENTY MILLION dollar budget, upon stateing this the second person from the commission elated to the first that I was the person who met with the govenors office, and the back peddling started. When we tried to speak of Sundance and why it was so hard for the independent filmakers to get something in, I was told to keep at it and who knows maybe someone at the festival would notice evetually. Not my idea of a festival attitude.
 
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Exceptions have been listed, but as a general rule (and I've attended several times) Sundance is a place for films produced by the indie wings of major studios, HBO documentaries, and indie films made by known directors or containing known actors. Unless you have name actors, or unless you really believe in your heart you have made a GREAT film. Not a good film, a GREAT film, it's not worth the fee to enter.
 
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It's independent in the sense that they many films are bought and sold there. You can argue that anyone making a film outside of the studio system (no distributor attached) is indie, stars or no stars.
 
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Independant simply means, not bankrolled by a studio... so If a big name star wants to make a movie that the studio isn't interested in, they can pay for it themselves ( or attach to it to raise the funding) and release it.

Independent specifically means money gathered independently of the studios.

Indie (indy) is the other 95% of the filmmakers out there. Less than $50,000 budgets, no access to name talent, these are the folks who are trying to make a living making film without having "made it"... we are the bar bands of the filmmaking world, trying to play enough to collect just enough at the door to eat, sleep and play the next gig. We hope to make it to the "Independent" level by getting noticed - it's a direct analogy as far as I'm concerned. The big filmmakers all got where they are by doing mostly the same things we are, just keep plugging away, play the next gig, start building a fan base, look for and take opportunities to grow your business. Never stop moving, even for a second!
 
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Don't missunderstand it is possible to get an indie film ino the festival but extremely hard. I have seen it done. A close freind who Iwork with alot has done it but it really did nothing for his film (theflyboysmovie.com) it has won over seventy awards however at this point we still need to raise 8 million to release it. The festival scene loved the film however in this economy getting P&A money is the trick.
 
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Gonzo_Entertainment said:
Highly likely somebody involved in the movie, producer, somebody was a known quantity/had connections.
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Someone like Vin Diesel? Vin Diesel got into Sundance with a 20 min short film called MULTI-FACIAL because Steven Spielberg liked it in 1996, then wrote a role for Vin in SAVING PRIVATE RYAN based on his performance.

barnaclelapse said:
I would think that film festival Troma does at around the same time would be a better bet than Sundance.
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TROMADANCE FILM FESTIVAL, which is no longer running in Park City, but is now in New Jersey months later as of 2010.
 
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sonnyboo said:
Someone like Vin Diesel? Vin Diesel got into Sundance with a 20 min short film called MULTI-FACIAL because Steven Spielberg liked it in 1996, then wrote a role for Vin in SAVING PRIVATE RYAN based on his performance.



TROMADANCE FILM FESTIVAL, which is no longer running in Park City, but is now in New Jersey months later as of 2010.
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Beyond the Wall of Sleep is entered in Tromadance this year. It has a Lloyd cameo, and he's a friend of mine, so hopefully... I went several times when it was in Park City, known Lloyd for years.
 
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Say Hi to Lloyd for us next time you see him :) I'm sure I speak for a goodly chunk of the folks here when I say we're fans.

Back on topic: Who you know is everything in every industry. In filmmaking, it's even a stronger necessity as a bad recommendation can not only tank the career of the one who screwed up, it can tank the referrer's as well... not just reflect poorly upon, but make it so that they have no more contacts to exercise when they need stuff done.
 
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Of course having a "known" actor will help. But if you want more info on what Sundance is looking for, I suggest reading "How not to make a short film" It is written by a Sundance panel judge and really opens your eyes to what they are looking for. It applies mainly to short films but I am sure some of the principles apply to features as well. Also there is an appendix in the back with countless links to websites that every film maker should know about.

Hope this helps!
 
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You have to understand the history and evolution of Sundance to know why none of us will ever get in. It started out just like all the other fests "with good intentions" but now it is nothing but a business. Even if for some reason you got into the fest, your film would probably get lost in the shuffle. Harvey Weinstein innovated independent films and how they were marketed. He started making a profit from these sundance films and soon the studios followed. The studios and other mini majors started using their muscle to get their films into Sundance, as a result even the most reputable sales agents got weeded out. Now, it seems that if you don't have a star to attract attention for Sundance, and if you dont have a big producer to back you up, your chances of getting into Sundance are almost zero. Indie filmmakers with a dream to make it big in the fests is just a dream now.
The key for the indie filmmaker is to get a distributor who believes in your film and will push for it to get the widest possible release. It's all about the people. If the people like your film, you will continue making films.
With the invention of cheap HD cameras, this process has become a lot slower, because sales agents and distributors have to go through thousands of dvds before they can come across something worth selling. So if your lucky, you might have some inside connections that can get your dvd into the right people in the industry, but if you dont have that kind of connection, it's just going to take time. I was fortunate enough to find a distributor who distributes films like mine. And I am getting a wide release. But it took me an eternity to finally get here.
 
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Cinemaair said:
Living here in Utah I can say that getting something submitted at tSundance is near impossible without inside help and some cashflow on top. Sundance operates on the idea of being an independent festival however it is far from it.
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Yep. BLAIR WITCH and the movies that Sonnyboo mentioned had ties to the selection commitee. There's a big story in Fangoria about how the producer of BLAIR WITCH was involved with the selection panel and how they bumped out THE LAST BROADCAST for that now famous midnight slot. Jo Blo and his 20K feature has a snowball's chance in hell of getting in. CineVegas (where I live) is even worse. They are all about movies with name talent and have shunned both Nevada filmmakers (though they have that category, at the submission stage, and take the money) and Independent groups (the founders of another film forum, like this one) that have tried to make ties with them.


knightly said:
Say Hi to Lloyd for us next time you see him :) I'm sure I speak for a goodly chunk of the folks here when I say we're fans.
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Oh, yeah!


From left to right - Sonnyboo, Lloyd, Mike Conway and Nic Brown (aka B-Movieman).


ICFLM%20Sept%202007%20083.JPG
 
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So, Sundance purpose, from what I'm reading, is basically two fold:

A place where films that haven't (for whatever reason) been picked up yet by a studio are simply selling their wares (as a purely business, not a "hey we're all indy directors, it's great to hook up"type of deal). I mean we all want to get paid for our stuff, but this strikes me as PURELY business/contracts related.

And a place where the higher class can brag to all their friends saying "oh, we watch SUNDANCE, not that Hollywood slop", never mind acknowledging that most movies at Sundance are headed for Hollywood studios in one form or another.


I'm probably WAY oversimplifiying it, aren't I?;)
 
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I love independent film, but hollywood is stretching that term beyond comprehension. in my eyes a true independent film is under 7 figures, bankrolled privately, and is all about the story, not the actor playing the role(but of course with good talent). What everyone is saying is totally true about sundance, what they are unofficially looking for is big actors that got paid 5 million instead of their usual 20 million.

My other huge gripe is of the "independent" mini versions of studios like searchlight and sony pictures classics. they may say they are for independents but comon, seriously? i'm sorry but 5 million is no indie to me.

The other sad truth, to reiterate what's already been said, connections count, and money talks. A close associate of mine told me he was shocked when a producer he knew told him that if he could get him 20 grand he could get him into sundance.... Now, i would take that with a grain of salt but if it's true and i believe it to be, it is not surprising. money talks and greed rules. Robert Redford doesn't even like where his brainchild has gone, which is why sundance has now made what they call their low budget category.
 
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