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music Solfeggio frequencies

Hi music guys!

I apologise again for abusing this forum for my music questions, but then, please use me for film dramaturgy (script, cinematography a.o.) related questions,
but can anyone explain to me how (or if) I can create solfeggio frequencies with non-electronic instruments?
Or are for example Tibetan singing bowls in these frequencies?
Or maybe someone can advice me a book;)
 
can anyone explain to me how (or if) I can create solfeggio frequencies with non-electronic instruments?
If? Yes! Variable frequencies are the core concept of non-electronic instruments ... and the bane of the lives of people who make/play them!

How? That depends on what instrument you're using, but essentially all you need to do is decide what frequency you want and tune an appropriate instrument to that note.

A wind instrument will require a particular combination of pipe/tube width and length, further influenced by the material from which the pipe is made and the way the air within the pipe is vibrated to create the sound (reed vs. whistle, for example).

Strings are easier to tune to precise frequencies, down to one-tenth of a Hertz for a bog-standard instrument. In this case, the diameter of the string, whether it's monofilament or stranded, the material from which it's made and the characteristics of the soundboard will influence the quality of the emitted note.

Singing bowls and other "solid" instruments are trickier to tune, as the vibrations produced are a function of the mass of the finished object and way the sound waves bounce around within it - but it can be done (raising or lowering the amount of water in drinking glasses, for example).

What can be more of a problem for all these instruments is sustaining the same note for the long periods of time that are characteristic of "solfeggio music" - someone blowing into a pipe needs to breath sooner or later, someone rubbing a string with a bow needs to switch to an upstroke sooner or later ... but again, their are techniques (or alternative instruments) that can overcome this.
 
Thank you! It is thus possible (or maybe it already exist) to make a pan flute consisting of solfeggio tones?

And then I was thinking, as you can put frames with hidden messages in between the main 'film reel', axiomising that these frequencies do have an effect on people, that you can 'sneak' them in the film score to influence the vibe of the movie on an additional subconscious level... For example if you want the audience to be less violent, you use frequency 639 hz (to enhance tolerance)...
 
It is thus possible (or maybe it already exist) to make a pan flute consisting of solfeggio tones?
Perfectly possible. If the flute contained only solfeggio notes, it would sound peculiar to anyone used to a traditional pan flute (they would probably think it had been abused and was well out of tune! :wait: ) but most traditional Irish slow airs, when played on a whistle or (uilleann) pipes include passages that pass through these frequencies when moving from one classical note to another. This is a characteristic of many traditional musical styles too.

you can 'sneak' them in the film score to influence the vibe of the movie on an additional subconscious level
No real need to sneak them in - these frequencies are already there! There are many thousands of pages written about the power of nine notes that have been "rediscovered". Unfortunately, very few of these pages are founded on anything other than a sort of pick-and-mix science. The frequencies were never lost - every singer from Beijing to Bantry Bay has been using them since forever - and in terms of the auditory environment, there's actually nothing special about any of them - they're all around us, and will be picked up by any decent microphone. In fact, it's quite common in a trad music session for players with tunable instruments to use at least some of these "off" tones because the one person with a non-tunable instrument is out of tune. Car engines, industrial machinery, insect noises, church bells ... you can add sound effects with any frequency you want (within reason!)

BUT

If you're counting on the calming effect of a particular frequency, and the cinema sound system is a bit wonky, your note could be 1, 2, 5, 10 Hz off, and that's completely out of your control. In addition, you have to consider the modifying effect of every surface and every other source of sound in the room. And finally, you have to consider the sensitivity of the "receiver" - we're not all tuned to the same wavelength, so there would be no way to guarantee who may or may not be affected by any particular frequency.

If you really want to trigger a visceral or emotional reaction, look at the frequencies that are too low (wavelengths that are too long) to stimulate the bones in our ears, and are "heard" through our sinuses, skull bones, or even through the whole of the chest cavity. Despite making reference to the Gregorian chant tradition, the fashionable solfeggio frequencies don't go anywhere near the low notes that you'll hear in a Western monastery - regularly down to 100Hz - and the Tibetan chants wander around 40-80Hz - a looooooong way from your 639Hz. ;)

One of the reasons live acoustic music can be so much more powerful than amplified and/or electronic performances is because (the right mix of) acoustic instruments transmit their soundwaves directly into your body; anything electrical that gets in the way (microphones, amplifiers, mixing desks, sound cards, speakers) risks stripping out at least part of the spectrum, or shifting the note away from its original frequency (that's the raison d'être of auto-tune software used by not-great singers :redgrin: ).

You definitely need to come to our acoustic festival whenever you get the chance. :hi:
 
A short follow up to the above: I've just done a random scan of about twenty different YouTube videos supposedly broadcasting a 639Hz note. Every single one was highly unstable, and none - absolutely none - came anywhere close to 639Hz. They were all down in the low hundreds. A video promising 527 Hz came within 1Hz for a few seconds, then followed the same pattern and dropped waaaaaay down into the lower frequencies ...

For comparison, a straightforward pan-flute video was giving me frequencies within +/-5Hz of the standard note.

Having listened to 527Hz +/- for those few seconds, and the pan-flute, I think that inserting or maintaining those higher frequencies would probably drive "average" people out of the cinema! :no:

But if you want to pursue the concept, I came across this pan-flute manufactuer offering an instrument that looks like it should be easily tuned to the solfeggio frequencies.
 
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Thank you very much for your extensive response!!! Did also some research in the meantime to try to understand the concept. As a philosopher I find it very interesting that the norm changed and thus that is what we nowadays consider 'normal'. And, what you were also mentioning, people will most likely find the tone a bit (or very much) off.
Then as a dramaturg;) Bertolt Brecht used to break the 4th wall by having the actors talking immediately to the audience. By using these sounds, it should thus be possible to unconsciously bring people out of their comfort zone, giving them a fourth dimensional (or fifth?;)) experience of the movie. Of course this is only for people who als like to watch movies like Der Siebente Continent of Hanneke - or any other movie that makes you feel extreme awkward (I give this movie as an example, because it is one of the few I know that makes you actually feel like the personages - highly not recommendable;)). I notice that I drift off to my dark side movie preferences;) and music (quarter tones by Wyschnegradsky (
)), while initially I thought of positively influencing the audience.
All in all, since the cinema industry has a problem, maybe a more profound focus on sound in the production will make it less attractive to experience the movie at home (take a live concert versus listening at home, even with a good sound system). An immersion in healing sounds ( not saying that it will always be a pleasant experience) and images (can be a 'normal' plot line), might make going to the cinema therapeutic.

Thank you for the link to the pan-flute manufacturer! Will write them an email and see what they respond:)
And can you please give me again the link or name of the festival?
 
Sent them an email;)

I have been to an electronic live set where they used the frequencies (at that time I was there only for the electronic music) . Though it would be interesting to do the same with acoustic instruments. I believe (but you music pro('s) know better) that the sound produced by an accoustic instrument is never 'perfect' which makes it even better resonate with us 'imperfect' perfect;) beings...

The original 6 Solfeggio frequencies
  1. 396 Hz – Associated with Liberating Guilt and Fear
  2. 417 Hz – Associated with Undoing Situations and Facilitating Change
  3. 528 Hz – Associated with Transformation and Miracles (DNA Repair)
  4. 639 Hz – Associated with Connecting/Relationships
  5. 741 Hz – Associated with Expression/Solutions
  6. 852 Hz – Associated with Returning to Spiritual Order
+
  1. 174 Hz: Associated with pain reduction and anesthetic properties
  2. 285 Hz: Associated with wound healing and tissue restoration
  3. 963 Hz: Associated with spiritually awakening and connecting to the “oneness” of universe
 
As a philosopher I find it very interesting that the norm changed and thus that is what we nowadays consider 'normal'. And, what you were also mentioning, people will most likely find the tone a bit (or very much) off.
Well ... the norm only changed for the people who opted for a different norm, which (on a global level) was a minority of the world's population - mostly Central Europeans and European immigrants to North America. I listen to a few specific broadcasts on Irish and French radio that regularly feature these frequencies in the form of semi-tones or quarter tones, but as far as they/we are concerned, there's nothing magical about it - it's all just "music".

To the best of my (admittedly limited) research on the subject, there's no logical, rational or other solid basis for the supposed benefits of the frequencies. There are 36 million pages on google about the subject, but not one scientific study, and (as I mentioned in the post above) no videos in YouTube's top 20 that actually broadcast the note that they advertise. As you've probably figured out, I'm extremely sceptical about the supposed powers attributed to these frequencies. :seeya:

On the other hand, there's a massive amount of scientific evidence that listening to music - the whole mixed bag of frequencies from 50 to 1500 Hz - affects us at an emotional and neurochemical level. So too does ambient sound, some sounds (i.e. frequencies/harmonics) more than others, depending on the person, e.g. nails scraping on a blackboard. This means that to test the hypothesis that a particular frequency could affect the audience in particular way, you'd have to strip out all the other noise on the soundtrack - back to the silent movie - or introduce a steady note that had no relationship to the images and the rest of the soundtrack, which would be heard as a persistent, annoying whine. And that's before we get into the behaviour-modifying effect of different wavelengths of visible light ... :abduct:

In our festival (Le Son Continu) we do have an unofficial "healing tent" where some our attendees go to listen to meditative musical tones, drink tchai and get/give head/foot massages ... and it's that mix of sensations that creates the feel-good factor, and may or may not contribute to healing your DNA. But, personally, I find that the most intense experience is on the "parquet noir" (black/dark dancefloor) at the end of the festival - a place you have to know is there, because it's lost in the woods when the lights go out, is completely dark, where you find your dance partner by touch and (naturally!) the music is a traditional acoustic mix spanning a few hundred frequencies. ;)
 
I agree with all that you are saying. Yet, sometimes adding a bit magic does wonders... ;)
I am not sure if I had scientific measurements in mind in regards to the effects of frequencies on the audience. And silent movies had often a live orchestra.
Or let people watch a movie in the cinema that activates an app on the smartphone with the right frequency for every individual (to listen to with headphones of course).
Question is, what is someone’s right frequency... 👽
 
And the Parquet Noir sounds awesome!
I live in the Azores where I attended one time a blindfolded night walk in nature, where you had to hold each other and experience your surroundings. Very soul enriching...
 
Did I get booted from this thread? I had a post listing Solfeggio and Chakra tones. Now, it is gone, though I see part of it in HelenofTroy's post #7, above. I posted while in "Dark Mode," but am confused if that had anything to do with it.

As a score composer, who has programmed many synth, sample, and FM patches, I found this topic rather interesting. Obviously, a sample of a "real" sound (flute, string, horn, choir, etc.) can be pitched to any key, and tuned to an offset.
I am not sure if I had scientific measurements in mind in regards to the effects of frequencies on the audience. And silent movies had often a live orchestra.
Or let people watch a movie in the cinema that activates an app on the smartphone with the right frequency for every individual (to listen to with headphones of course).
Question is, what is someone’s right frequency... 👽

I'm thinking that many tones in a score will affect different people (read below). I could see any or all of these tones used for a soundtrack:

On the other hand, there's a massive amount of scientific evidence that listening to music - the whole mixed bag of frequencies from 50 to 1500 Hz - affects us at an emotional and neurochemical level.

Yes. As you say, many frequencies.

no videos in YouTube's top 20 that actually broadcast the note that they advertise.;)

Does that include the above video?
 
Yet, sometimes adding a bit magic does wonders... ;)
I am not sure if I had scientific measurements in mind in regards to the effects of frequencies on the audience. And silent movies had often a live orchestra.
Or let people watch a movie in the cinema that activates an app on the smartphone with the right frequency for every individual (to listen to with headphones of course).
Question is, what is someone’s right frequency... 👽

To borrow a concept from the Ghostbusters, you're crossing too many streams! ;) Taking a few steps back and framing your enquiry as a series of questions, we get this:
- Can a movie (be made to) emotionally affect the audience who watches it? Yes, definitely - we already have "feel good" movies, and there's a relatively recent example which escapes me of one feature being pulled from cinemas because it triggered violent reactions from at least part of its audience.
- Can a soundtrack (emotionally) affect an audience - I can hear all the sound guys shouting "well, duh!" :lol: Yes, of course - we wouldn't have so many examples of good and bad soundtracks if sound didn't contribute significantly to the feel of a movie (or stageplay, for that matter).
- Can you affect human behaviour with subliminal messaging? Yes. That's well-proven too. However, the vast majority of experiments rely on defining a very, very specific objective, e.g. ensuring that hungry cinema-goers buy a WillyWonka Chocolate Bar - and no other - when they pass the concession stands on the way out. It's a lot, lot harder to manipulate ill-defined abstract aspects of human behaviour with simple, single-strand approaches.
- Can soundwaves tuned to a single frequency do something other than be heard as a musical note? Oh, yes - and this is where the solfeggio frequency claims start to come apart: we have loads of examples of resonance doing stuff - but it's almost always destructive. It causes bridges to fall down, glasses to shatter, rocks to split apart, water to boil ... You can take a pure sound wave, direct it into someone's body and blitz their kidney-stone into harmless fragments. So it's very possible to do something, but these effects all require the frequency to be sustained, and to be properly tuned to the target, and - if you're going to demonstrate that a particular frequency has a positive effect - not be contaminated by other noise.

This last point means that you can't introduce a behaviour-modifying sound in a subliminal fashion. If the frequency is part of the viewer's regular soundscape, adding micro-seconds of it to the movie soundtrack won't introduce anything new; and if it's not part of their usual auditory experience, then they'll hear it and start trying to intellectualise it's relevance to the moving images and the rest of the soundtrack. That'll break the experiment.

All-in-all, you'd have to invest an enormous amount of time, money and energy into chasing a completely unfounded theory, when it'd be far simpler to use the sensorial experiences that are already in use and proven to work.
 
Does that include the above video?
I hadn't seen that one (quite possible that YT's top 20 for you is different what they offer me!) but apart from the 174Hz (+/- 5Hz) all the rest are heavily contaminated. On the 852Hz, I can hear two distinct "melodies" and several repeating motifs. I'm not listening in ideal conditions, but at one point I was sure I was hearing some nearby church bells (there are a lot of them where I am at the moment, and it's Sunday!) - but no: it's part of the broadcast sound.

So yes, you could use those frequencies in a soundtrack (I'm sure , they've already been used in some sci-fi work, and in the 852Hz, there's an echo of part of Holtz's The Planets, [Venus, I think]) - and with the right imagery, it could make for an interesting experience. Just don't expect it to repair your DNA while you munch on a bucket of popcorn! :pop:
 
To borrow a concept from the Ghostbusters, you're crossing too many streams! ;) Taking a few steps back and framing your enquiry as a series of questions, we get this:
- Can a movie (be made to) emotionally affect the audience who watches it? Yes, definitely - we already have "feel good" movies, and there's a relatively recent example which escapes me of one feature being pulled from cinemas because it triggered violent reactions from at least part of its audience.
- Can a soundtrack (emotionally) affect an audience - I can hear all the sound guys shouting "well, duh!" :lol: Yes, of course - we wouldn't have so many examples of good and bad soundtracks if sound didn't contribute significantly to the feel of a movie (or stageplay, for that matter).
- Can you affect human behaviour with subliminal messaging? Yes. That's well-proven too. However, the vast majority of experiments rely on defining a very, very specific objective, e.g. ensuring that hungry cinema-goers buy a WillyWonka Chocolate Bar - and no other - when they pass the concession stands on the way out. It's a lot, lot harder to manipulate ill-defined abstract aspects of human behaviour with simple, single-strand approaches.
- Can soundwaves tuned to a single frequency do something other than be heard as a musical note? Oh, yes - and this is where the solfeggio frequency claims start to come apart: we have loads of examples of resonance doing stuff - but it's almost always destructive. It causes bridges to fall down, glasses to shatter, rocks to split apart, water to boil ... You can take a pure sound wave, direct it into someone's body and blitz their kidney-stone into harmless fragments. So it's very possible to do something, but these effects all require the frequency to be sustained, and to be properly tuned to the target, and - if you're going to demonstrate that a particular frequency has a positive effect - not be contaminated by other noise.

This last point means that you can't introduce a behaviour-modifying sound in a subliminal fashion. If the frequency is part of the viewer's regular soundscape, adding micro-seconds of it to the movie soundtrack won't introduce anything new; and if it's not part of their usual auditory experience, then they'll hear it and start trying to intellectualise it's relevance to the moving images and the rest of the soundtrack. That'll break the experiment.

All-in-all, you'd have to invest an enormous amount of time, money and energy into chasing a completely unfounded theory, when it'd be far simpler to use the sensorial experiences that are already in use and proven to work.

You are completely right, again!;) I have to admit that professionally I am a business developer for emerging technologies, and as a business developer, the only thing you have to proof is: does it make money?;) If cinema's can sell movies that provide individualised experiences focussed on improving well being (and my evil Id screams now: catharsis! give them catharsis), then I believe people might be interested. Personally, I would check who produced the movie, and would definitely not go to a movie made by me - it will be worse than an LSD trip;)
 
I hadn't seen that one (quite possible that YT's top 20 for you is different what they offer me!) but apart from the 174Hz (+/- 5Hz) all the rest are heavily contaminated. On the 852Hz, I can hear two distinct "melodies" and several repeating motifs. I'm not listening in ideal conditions, but at one point I was sure I was hearing some nearby church bells (there are a lot of them where I am at the moment, and it's Sunday!) - but no: it's part of the broadcast sound.

So yes, you could use those frequencies in a soundtrack (I'm sure , they've already been used in some sci-fi work, and in the 852Hz, there's an echo of part of Holtz's The Planets, [Venus, I think]) - and with the right imagery, it could make for an interesting experience. Just don't expect it to repair your DNA while you munch on a bucket of popcorn! :pop:

Maybe it cures covid 🤗
 
If cinema's can sell movies that provide individualised experiences focussed on improving well being (and my evil Id screams now: catharsis! give them catharsis), then I believe people might be interested.
Hmmm ... again, I think you're trying to reconcile two incompatible concepts. Going to the cinema is a collective experience; if you try to individualise it, then to a greater or lesser extent, you've removed it's raison d'être.

Right at this moment, I'm listening to a "live stream" of traditional music. I can control the volume, I can modify somewhat the balance of bass and treble, I can control the temperature of the room I'm in and adjust the lighting ... but given the choice, I'd give up that individualised experience in favour of the catharsis that can only come from sharing the goood, goood, goood vibrations with a hundred other people. :metal:
 
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apart from the 174Hz (+/- 5Hz) all the rest are heavily contaminated. On the 852Hz, I can hear two distinct "melodies" and several repeating motifs.

The reason you are hearing so many sounds is that they wanted it to be more musical, so they used a "pad" source sample and played it at each frequency. Any sustained drone could be made up of orchestral, synth, ambient nature, industrial sounds, then pitched to a Solfeggio frequency. Just a lone sine wave frequency would sound naked.
 
Hmmm ... again, I think you're trying to reconcile two incompatible concepts. Going to the cinema is a collective experience; if you try to individualise it, then to a greater or lesser extent, you've removed it's raison d'être.

Right at this moment, I'm listening to a "live stream" of traditional music. I can control the volume, I can modify somewhat the balance of bass and treble, I can control the temperature of the room I'm in and adjust the lighting ... but given the choice, I'd give up that individualised experience in favour of the catharsis that can only come from sharing the goood, goood, goood vibrations with a hundred other people. :metal:
Hmmm ... again, I think you're trying to reconcile two incompatible concepts. Going to the cinema is a collective experience; if you try to individualise it, then to a greater or lesser extent, you've removed it's raison d'être.

Right at this moment, I'm listening to a "live stream" of traditional music. I can control the volume, I can modify somewhat the balance of bass and treble, I can control the temperature of the room I'm in and adjust the lighting ... but given the choice, I'd give up that individualised experience in favour of the catharsis that can only come from sharing the goood, goood, goood vibrations with a hundred other people. :metal:
You have silent disco’s - which don’t appeal to me, but to others. So yeah. Maybe we are not the target group. And apparently the collective experience is not so valuable when a lot of people prefer to watch movies on their oled at home. Maybe we can give everyone a frequency and then match them harmoniously 😊😁
 
And yes, nothing brings me closer to my pure emotions then a live concert... the chemistry of a band, an orchestra, the passion of an individual performer and a true appreciating public... divine...
I think there is no group here in the forum discussing the future of cinema? Maybe it will be to theoretical. On the other hand, just like with theater that changed over time, the cinematic experience will most likely also change.
 
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