SHOT LISTS (new article)

Take a look at my new article on ORGANIZATION - starting with Shot Lists

ORGANIZATION PART I
Shot Lists: From Pre-Production through Post Production
By Peter John Ross


Like so many of us with a desire to eventually make movies for a living, I like to view my little DV shorts (aka Microcinema) as a training ground. Even when making a 5 minute camcorder short, the kind where you are the writer/director/producer/cameraman/editor, you can still prep for bigger shoots, and develop good habits. One of these habits is creating and maintaining a shot list.

A shot list is a list of all the camera angles for a shoot, including coverage and cutaways. This can be done from the script, on the fly during a shoot, or even AFTER the shoot, using the footage and just naming the shots that were obtained.

Shot lists in pre-production usually only blueprint a shoot. A basic shot list of MASTER SHOT, CLOSE-UPS (aka CU’s), et al help plan for time & basically outline what the shoot will consist of. Part of directing is deciding what shots best tell your story and elicit the emotional reaction from a viewer. Storyboards are a great second step for a shot list, but not everyone can draw or get storyboards, so a written list of shots can still achieve the real goal (which is organization).

Making a list of those shots from the script usually winds up being different than when you get there on the day and do the shoot. New shots can come up, two shots get fused into one, or you just don’t have time to get them all. During a shoot, LOGGING the shots can be a valuable tool for post-production (thinking ahead).

A “script supervisor”, the person watching the shot list and the script verifying everything from the script got shot, can scratch off each shot as they are completed, and take notes about each take and each shot. Details like which take the director liked, merged or changed shots, audio problems, time code, and as much as possible for notes for post production. Having a person doing this function can greatly increase the speed and organization of post-production.

Now after the shoot, and either the editor or the person who is doing it all need to be able to take all these shots and make editing choices from them. Again, if this is a small, simple shoot with the same person writing/directing/shooting/editing, you may not have made a shot list, but now that you have a tape full of shots that now have to be captured to the hard drive – you have to name the files and the shots in the computer in order to edit them. So, no matter what you still have a “shot list”.

Now, if you had created a shot list from the script, you can carry the same names through pre-production all the way through post-production. It can be any way you feel like organizing. I can’t tell you how to best organize your shoot, but the only thing that matters is that everyone understands it from writer to cameraman to editor. A basic shot list can consist of just saying “scene 04, take 02 Camera A” and abbreviated “S04T02A”, or any variation therein. Make up your own systems, whatever ways seem best to you.

The reason to be so detailed and to make consistent notes is because as your projects get bigger and more people get involved, there is a system in place for everyone to know what everything is in every department. You can find out where you are in the screenplay based on a shot list, or if one shot needs a title, or there was a slightly different angle – all of that information is systematically (and subsequently anally) organized and easily found. So shot number "S04T02A" is the same from screenplay to shoot to file in the editing computer, it's easy to find everything. There is a roadmap that everyone can follow.


Having worked as a post-production supervisor and lead editor on a feature film, I was dealing with a director who was the only person who had the notes and shot lists, but they existed in his memory. When capturing & trying to synch audio to his 16mm film transfers, I was trying to find shots like “George gets in car” or “Jenny at apartment”. So where in the script does that happen? How many times is George in a car? It became impossible to do anything without the director present at all times. We then devised a system and naming and assigned scene numbers, and shot lists after the fact and we were able to synch audio for the entire movie.

On the big movies & TV shows, the whole production team synchronizes by a shot list and all the way to the end. Even when you’re doing it all yourself, you can prep for eventually delegating to people like a different editor or cameraman by being organized with a shot list, and making it something everyone can understand. It makes it possible for everyone to be on the same page.
 
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Great info!

Organization is EVERYTHING and usually the most overlooked aspect of filmmaking. Vachon said it best, that an indie film is a disaster waiting to happen. Because of meticulous pre-production, during an 18 day shoot on You Are Alone, we only went over on one day (we were shoot 13 hour days, that included an hour lunch break)...and by the third week, we were one full day ahead...taking our time the last two days, but still finishing up a half day early. ALL BECAUSE OF PLANNING, PLANNING, PLANNING....from every shot right on down.

Anyone who thinks they can just pick up the camera and shoot, without knowiing ahead what your shots are is crazy, and will pay for it in post.

I always feel (and this is from working with a lot of film students) prep is the MAIN thing they seem to overlook in film school...or no one's paying attention.
 
Nice!

A common error I've seen is that the director will decide on a shot list (via storyboards) before the location is secured. Often the geometry of the actual location will require an entirely new shot list. Storyboarding everything to death can be wasteful if you don't even have your location yet.. Also, it's easy to storyboard with a digital camera at the location with your AD acting as a stand in!

Also, I think shot lists should be somewhat flexible as you may think of ideas for coverage in the heat of the moment.. Or, you may have to drop complex shots due to time pressure.
 
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I think that shotlists are the single most important part of being ready on the set as a director....but, as the guy above me said, you better have made that list from being on the location or you're wasting your time
 
Shot lists go waaaaaaayyyyy beyond just deciding what shots to do on set... they are equally important to the organization of Post Production. The relevance of the article is to demonstrate how something so simple and small can pay off exponentially for anyone serious about going beyond DV shorts.
 
Then again Woody Allen shot practically everything with just a master. It depends on what you're making. A lot of comedy is just a master with one or two over-the-shoulders thrown in. The director's focus goes to working with the actors, not worrying about shot lists. I'd rather see great acting in a master shot than meticulous coverage with crappy acting. One veteran Autralian AD told me that most directors shoot way too much coverage. Producers want shot lists to make them feel better but they should be worrying about treating the crew right..

Crew and post often request shot lists so they can get a better grip on what's going on - so they know what the next setup is, or where to find a particular shot in the dailies. But the fact is that flexibility in the moment is essential for the director to do his/her job. As long as the take has a scene # and timecode post can find the take. As long as the AD and DP have worked out the blocking with the director then the rest of the crew should know the day's setups.

The biggest problem with making a shot list is that it constrains the director needlessly. What if the actor's having trouble with the performance? What if you get there, and realize that a push-in would be quicker and more dramatic than shooting a separate CU?

As long as production design, costuming, and the AD's know what *scenes* are being shot then they will have made sure that the right props, costuming, actors, etc. will be on set. The particular shots don't affect the set of breakdown items required to complete the scene (except - sometimes in the case of extreme CU's for makeup).

I once knew a filmmaker who wanted to make a TV pilot in his basement. They spent months planning the project and making elaborate shot lists. Of course these lists went out the window quickly once they got behind on Scene X and cut it short to move onto Scene Y. I think shot lists are helpful but mostly serve to ward off anxiety about the actual shoot.

I find it's way more helpful to think along the lines of "I have 3 hours to shoot scene 18 and then 2 hours to shoot scene 12. If 18 goes over I'll get 12 in a master. If not, I'll grab more coverage on 12. If we finish early we'll turn around and shoot scene 6", etc. These scenes will be listed on the call sheet and shooting schedule. If you want a shot list on the shooting schedule then you have to get the AD to put it on the call sheet.. it gets handed out to the crew.. and then the director will change the shot. Why? Because he/she found something better to do. The effort to put the shot list on the call sheet has been *wasted*.

Shot lists are often too detailed and easily derailed. Of course a director should block out the scenes in advance and know what they're going to shoot, but it isn't always helpful to etch that in stone with the crew - otherwise they get annoyed when the list changes. What matters is sticking to the director's vision, not sticking to a list :cool:

David Mamet (dir. Spartan, etc.) said that he often had no idea where to put the camera. His stock answer was "over there". I think he prefers to focus on the actors.

Thoughts?? Just playing devil's advocate :cool:
 
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filmscheduling said:
Then again Woody Allen shot practically everything with just a master.

The biggest problem with making a shot list is that it constrains the director needlessly. What if the actor's having trouble with the performance? What if you get there, and realize that a push-in would be quicker and more dramatic than shooting a separate CU?


Shot lists are often too detailed and easily derailed. Of course a director should block out the scenes in advance and know what they're going to shoot, but it isn't always helpful to etch that in stone with the crew - otherwise they get annoyed when the list changes. What matters is sticking to the director's vision, not sticking to a list :cool:

Thoughts?? Just playing devil's advocate :cool:

I think you missed the point of tha article entirely. Shot lists change (as was already stated clearly in the article). The point is that even on Woody Allen shoots, they do have shot lists, even if it's entirely done with masters, and the point of that article in no way says "contrain the director" or "you must follow shot lists exactly!".

The point of the article was solely abouty ORGANIZATION, not a thing to do with creativity, or how to direct.

The cavalier attitude of "just shoot it, and worry about organization later" has all downsides and nothing for the plus category. If shooting on film, how do you describe what you shot to the lab? What direction do you give the colourist? How will the editor know what they are looking at? It's all fine & good for the under $500 miniDV short under 5 minutes, but how does that prepare you for working with a larger crew (pre-production through post)? How can you justify the money that will inevitably be paid unravellign the mystery of what was shot and what wasn't?
 
I'm not against a shot list per se. It is probably even essential for certain kinds of films. Sure, shot lists can help your crew and help in post production. Techs love shots lists. But my point is that, if you are serious about directing, this probably isn't the highest priority for you as a director, especially when working with larger crews and working on 35mm/S16mm. I'll say it again: Your shot list will become paradoxically less important as you move from miniDV to larger pics.

Why? If the director collaborates well with the DP and AD then the director can offload a good portion of that work.

The DP will know how to make your shots more powerful and simplify the list, and they will often tell you how to do it the day of the shoot. Trust your excellent DP to interpret your vision. If you don't trust your DP then sure, you can get all nitty gritty with the shot list. But that isn't the ideal situation.

The AD will know that you don't have time to get 5 singles on your 5 actors but if you push/pan you'll effectively get those 5 singles and it will look better composed. You can trust your excellent AD's advice, or tell him to stick to what you wrote down, but better to absorb the advice I'd say in many cases.

For post, the script supe can keep track of the shots - no need for the director to worry about it, unless a potion of the script wasn't covered or there was a continuity screwup.

The assistant editor can take the script supe's notes and prep a bunch of clips such as "1-1 WS Bob, 1-2 WS Bob, 1-3 CU Bob" etc. Does the director generally need to worry about those notes? Nope, not if the techs are doing their job.

When working in color grading, do you really need the shot list? The pic is usually at a rough cut by that stage, and the director should be in the room with the color grader. The color grader is touching the entire look of the picture! Sure in the back of the director's head he might say, "didn't I have another take of Sc 16 CU?" so he calls the editor. The editor tells the asst. editor to look up all shots for Sc. 16. They grab all the shots and get them to the color grading session.. But that's already a ding for the editor/director because they should have chosen the shot that the actor performed best, or the one that simply looked the best, because that will almost always be the one that color grades best. Sure there are shot lists in that process but often not at the director's level of day-to-day consciousness.

In that context, shot lists are great, but part of an effective organizational mechanism, and not an essential artery of the filmmaking process.

Again I'm just playing devil's advocate, there's many different preferences and approaches, so I say do what works for you :cool: But that is my opinion based upon my experience.
 
The thing that I did most correctly for The Soup Party was I had a shot list that was pretty detailed for the masters and any coverage I absolutely needed to get, and I visited the locations while planning those shots, with my DP. On set I grabbed shots I saw right then, and ones my DP pointed out. I had my script supervisor record which takes I liked. This allowed me to move from setup to setup to setup knowing what I wanted and communicate that to everyone, and in post although I reviewed each take it was good to have recorded which one I preferred on set, particularly because of nuances in the take that are less apparent on the screen in a little tiny box.

I would never imagine going in and shooting willy-nilly, creating a shot list on the go. Maybe its because I visualize shots as Im writing. Maybe its because I know how much that shot list helped me - most of all helped me be more organized and focused, and designate which days we needed what props and what characters. I would work hand in hand with a DP that knows what I want and I would also keep my eye open for new shots on set.

But I would never ever plan a production without a shot list.

Thanks for the article Boo! Please give us more.
 
filmscheduling said:
But my point is that, if you are serious about directing, this probably isn't the highest priority for you as a director, especially when working with larger crews and working on 35mm/S16mm. I'll say it again: Your shot list will become paradoxically less important as you move from miniDV to larger pics.

Why? If the director collaborates well with the DP and AD then the director can offload a good portion of that work.


As someone who has successfully transitioned from MiniDV Microcinema shorts to 35mm shoots....Shot lists are equally important on the one man shoots to the 25+ crew to me as director. Now this is where it's definately opinion & no one is right or wrong, but in my view - my job as director goes equally with actors/performance and the camera/framing/shot list. If I'm not 100% sure I'm getting what I need to shape the movie in the edit via an actual shot list, then I'm not doing my job. On the set, on the day - too many factors are effecting a director, and it's their movie - not the A.D., not the D.P. who have to see the movie through the edit and make sure all the shots are gotten so you can "make your day". Should the cameraman or assistant director really be the ones to decide what shots to cut when you're losing light or running out of time? What happens to the edit when you forget to get an important cutaway or extra coverage on your one man crew mini DV shoot? Without a shot list - not a damn thing except maybe attempt to catch lightening in a bottle and re-shoot....

* Now I'm not saying to not trust your D.P., but I am saying that COLLABORATING is the way to go. Usually, at least in my experience - you want to work on the shot list WITH the cameraman before the shoot. But this too, is just an opinion.

filmscheduling said:
The DP will know how to make your shots more powerful and simplify the list, and they will often tell you how to do it the day of the shoot. Trust your excellent DP to interpret your vision. If you don't trust your DP then sure, you can get all nitty gritty with the shot list. But that isn't the ideal situation.

The AD will know that you don't have time to get 5 singles on your 5 actors but if you push/pan you'll effectively get those 5 singles and it will look better composed. You can trust your excellent AD's advice, or tell him to stick to what you wrote down, but better to absorb the advice I'd say in many cases.

For post, the script supe can keep track of the shots - no need for the director to worry about it, unless a potion of the script wasn't covered or there was a continuity screwup.

The assistant editor can take the script supe's notes and prep a bunch of clips such as "1-1 WS Bob, 1-2 WS Bob, 1-3 CU Bob" etc. Does the director generally need to worry about those notes? Nope, not if the techs are doing their job.

and if you don't create a shot list, how will they know what shots to get? I guess this doesn't make sense to me at all. How can you trust a D.P. to get your shots, if you didn't make a shot list? How will the AD know you wanted 5 singles without a shot list? What will the script supervisor name the shots without a shot list and how will that correspond with the post production crew? Ironically, you just stated a situation with the Asst. Editor straight out of my article... you said for him to name the shots in post.... (FYI - that's exactly what my article stated and subsequently is the POINT of the article) - Someone created a SHOT LIST.

It may not have been the director, but in your situations - there is a shot list. Even if it was made up that day on set - a shot list was created. If the shot list gets recorded on paper in some way - it can then be used to organize every aspect of the process to finish the movie from there. It's not really important that it be the director as much as ANYONE makes sure it gets done and synchronized to the end of post Production (so maybe it's the producer's responsibility - but on most DV shoots - the director is the producer).

filmscheduling said:
When working in color grading, do you really need the shot list? The pic is usually at a rough cut by that stage, and the director should be in the room with the color grader. The color grader is touching the entire look of the picture!

Uhhhhh... I don't think it's ever been more essential than in the DI process. You don't colour grade the footage that was trasnferred to video, you transfer the film again at higher resolution. Without a shot list, there is no way to know which roll of film to get to the colourist to transfer at 2K and do the color grading. You can't create an EDL (edit decision list) without the shot list.


filmscheduling said:
In that context, shot lists are great, but part of an effective organizational mechanism, and not an essential artery of the filmmaking process.

I think you misinterpretted the point of the article entirely. Is your point that shot lists aren't important or that they aren't important for directors? Even in your response, you make my point - shot lists help the film crew be more organized, whether it's the D.P (Director of Photography), A.D. (Assistant Director), script supervisor, or assistant editor - shot lists are there.

Solely, my opinion and I think shot lists are an essential part of filmmaking, and especially for directing, but that wasn't the point of the article - using SHOT LISTS was the point.. It's 50% of the directing job. to know what shots you need to most effectively tell the story (a quote from the article). I like this healthy disagreement! It's not a fight, but a difference of opinion. I can accept the difference of philosophy on directing as that will be different for every director - but shot lists, whoever winds up being responsible - are a crucial part of the process of making a movie.
 
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In the 6 years that I've been making films, I've never used a shot list. I usually just make up and figure out the shots as I go. For the movie I'm going to be shooting this summer, I will be using a shot list for the first time. The scenes are just too complicated, and the pacing is far too crutial for me to do it any other way. For me it all depends on the complexity of the project.
 
I was asked to give an example of how to do a shot list...

Break down your script by "scenes". That usually means each whole set of action & dialogue that takes place at one place (IE living room).

Figure out how many camera angles (aka setups you want to do). So if it's a Living room scene, and the 2nd scene in the script, and you want to do the standard master shot, plus two "over the shoulder" shots of each of the 2 main actors speaking...

So from there you'll say

Scene 2, Camera angle A
Scene 2, Camera angle B
Scene 2, Camera angle C

Having it as a "shot list" specifically is write it down in the order you will SHOOT, which may not be in sequential order, as some camera setups are harder & should go first.

===========================

Once you're shooting, keep a record like this:

Scene 2, Camera angle A Take 01
Scene 2, Camera angle A Take 02
Scene 2, Camera angle B Take 01
Scene 2, Camera angle B Take 02
Scene 2, Camera angle C Take 01
Scene 2, Camera angle C Take 02

or abbreviated
S2CAT01
S2CAT02
S2CBT01
S2CBT02
S2CCT01
S2CCT02

THis is the part that becomes your bible not only to make sure you got everything, but also to correspond with the editing.

===========================

Now I'll even take the shooting script (which should hav ethe scene numbers inserted with the program or by hand) and hand draw BRACKETS on it and evn breakdown which lines may or may not go with a camera angle.

see here:
script.jpg


see how the brackets for camera angle A cover the whole thing - that's obviously a master shot. The brackets for camera angle B doesn't start till the 2nd line of dialogue? That's because as director I know I want to start on the other guy in the edit. But that's preferental kinda stuff for director's and editors to decide. But when shooting on actual film, you need to CONSERVE your film ($), so I do use this technique a lot.

===========================

Hopefully this helps.

- Ross
 
This is to everyone...which film (whether it be your first or third or whenever) did you start using a storyboard and a shot list? I haven't been using either on my first movie but it looks like a really good idea except for I think of so many new angles and shots when I see the place that I'm filming at.
 
Peter,

Some people will resist doing it any other way than just the way they thought up, especially those who are not organized. Your article is for those of us who appreciate doing better each time by learning what works for others and can be adapted for our own use. For those who want to move into more complex filming and want to ignore these suggestions, good luck. In the construction business some people have said to me, "I've been doing it this way for 20 years". To that I have always responded, "well, the rest of us have had to learn how to adapt with change and do it better." Many people are resistant to change and try to ignore it. The rest of us welcome better ways to accomplish our goals. In any event, if what you are currently doing works for you, stay the course. Many of us are eager to learn another way to do our jobs better.

I start with a storyboard first off the production script and go to a shot list once I have a flow established in my mind and now on paper with the storyboard.

I am shooting a 30 spec. commerical Wed. and have a 12 page storyboard and 14 shots developed. Since we are on a short timetable (7 hours to set up, shoot, breakdown and out) we have to be organized. I am saving two shots for the last for specific reasons. One is so I can either get one good shot for the tag at the end or take advantage of any extra time left over in order to shoot 4 different tag lines at the end with two very good improv actors.

Your shot list notes are more detailed than mine, so I think I'll adapt yours in order to help the editor in post. I appreciate your input and information and will use it this week for my next shoot.
 
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In working post production on several features for other people, I find that I still have to create the shot list even for shots that are in the can on tape. I can't organize a bin (aka folder) without labeling the shots in some kind of order that makes sense, even when they didn't slate a single shot during the shoot.

This system is incredibly important if the person editing was never on the shoot and needs to edit within a WORKFLOW with more than one person.
 
Great info!

Organization is EVERYTHING and usually the most overlooked aspect of filmmaking. Vachon said it best, that an indie film is a disaster waiting to happen. Because of meticulous pre-production, during an 18 day shoot on You Are Alone, we only went over on one day (we were shoot 13 hour days, that included an hour lunch break)...and by the third week, we were one full day ahead...taking our time the last two days, but still finishing up a half day early. ALL BECAUSE OF PLANNING, PLANNING, PLANNING....from every shot right on down.

Anyone who thinks they can just pick up the camera and shoot, without knowiing ahead what your shots are is crazy, and will pay for it in post.

I always feel (and this is from working with a lot of film students) prep is the MAIN thing they seem to overlook in film school...or no one's paying attention.
I agree fully. Planning cuts down on the errors that are waiting to happen. Elly
 
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