Just picked up a Zoom H4n. I have made the decision to shoot sound separate, instead of running my shotgun mic into the Canon T2I. When I compared the difference, the sound recorded with the Zoom and shotgun was better when compared to the Canon and shotgun. Now I have another challenge, syncing sound. What are some things to keep in mind when recording sound separate? Are there any issues when you try to sync Zoom H4N audio to 1080 24p video.
-
Wondering which camera, gear, computer, or software to buy? Ask in our Gear Guide.
shooting sound separate
- Thread starter wparrish24
- Start date
Thanks anyway... seems like phantom power would be connected to each other, seems like a bad plan!. Ill put a mail in to beachtek maybe they have a mod..
Thanks
Thanks
My experience with tube preamps is that I have yet to find one that is as quiet as a solid state pre. Additionally, it would be hard to find a tube pre which did not alter the signal in some way. I have a small project studio that I also use for recording music and vocals, and the preamps I use for music and singing are not suited for location recording because of the added noise and altering of the waveform. For location sound, what I want is a wire with gain.
Hey gpforte001,
same story as me and a few other round these parts... home recording studio background etc..
for some of us video noobs its more a matter of approaching a better quality sound than what were getting off the camera mic.
For example, I have an Art TubeMP. Sure its a cheep little tube preamp, and as such is coloring the sound.
But connect up an el-chepo' condenser say an XML jobbie, duck tape the mic to the end of a painters extension handle, point the business end of the mic in the right direction, and hold it just out of the frame, and you've got an arguably "better" sound then if you just recorded audio from the camera mic.
Sure its not great sound, but there's a good chance that you will have more "usable" audio captured to your video.
(of course I was only illustrating Id never do such a thing
)
same story as me and a few other round these parts... home recording studio background etc..
for some of us video noobs its more a matter of approaching a better quality sound than what were getting off the camera mic.
For example, I have an Art TubeMP. Sure its a cheep little tube preamp, and as such is coloring the sound.
But connect up an el-chepo' condenser say an XML jobbie, duck tape the mic to the end of a painters extension handle, point the business end of the mic in the right direction, and hold it just out of the frame, and you've got an arguably "better" sound then if you just recorded audio from the camera mic.
Sure its not great sound, but there's a good chance that you will have more "usable" audio captured to your video.
(of course I was only illustrating Id never do such a thing
)
Argh I feel like I have offended all Indiana Jones fans out there... Forgive me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDSaEBo3f78
Funny you should say that! I should tell you some time what I've done for April Fools.
But, I digress..
Okay so on the subject of gain, I feel kind of bad that I had someone purchase an SM7B as his voice-over mic to do auditions with and such, but it requires so much gain that his little Mackie mixboard adds so much damn noise and hum to the recording. Does anyone know of an extremely cheap, yet GOOD sounding preamp that can be used with an SM7B to get enough gain but low noise? Preferably under 200$ if possible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDSaEBo3f78
Funny you should say that! I should tell you some time what I've done for April Fools.
But, I digress..
Okay so on the subject of gain, I feel kind of bad that I had someone purchase an SM7B as his voice-over mic to do auditions with and such, but it requires so much gain that his little Mackie mixboard adds so much damn noise and hum to the recording. Does anyone know of an extremely cheap, yet GOOD sounding preamp that can be used with an SM7B to get enough gain but low noise? Preferably under 200$ if possible.
Last edited:
Oh, you so funny!
Tube preamps - even the pricey ones - color the sound to one degree or another. Wonderful for music purposes, not such a good idea for film production.
I've found Universal Audio, Orban, Manley and similar high-end tube pres to be very quiet, but at $4k and up - and I mean UP! - for one channel they had damned well better be.
As an update (just to keep the info in the same place) I believe I need one of these...
http://www.sjmediasystem.com/art-prosplit.html in order to split the mic into two channels and use phantom power.
Production sound gear is highly specialized - it must record uncolored sound, be very sturdy but lightweight and be able to operate without "outside" help such as AC power, not to mention quick to set-up and break-down. Very rarely are they using pre-amps; they are just one more thing to deal with. Often the sound gear must be carried in a harness when doing run & gun. That's why companies like Sound Devices dominate their particular niche; great mic pres, built like a tank, easy to use and economical on batteries. I don't know of any Neves that run on batteries.
The mantra for production sound folks is K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple, Stupid!
You should check out jwsound.net which is highly regarded production sound mixer Jerry Wexlers site for production sound professionals. These are some the folks that do all of the "Hollywood" films and TV shows. There is a section of the forum where they post pictures of their sound carts and other rigs. You'll note that it is almost all mixers, recorders, laptops, video monitors and comm gear on the carts.
Last edited:
Optimum is to use the same mic as used on the set, next is something close. As long as your mic pre is relatively transparent - whether it is the console or outboard - you should be fine.
No matter what you do it is never going to be a perfect match. Problem number one is the location. You can solve this with placing a similar mic the same approximate distance from the talent as long as your room is really dead. The biggest problem, however, is going to be the talent. Very rarely will they have the same vibe in a studio/booth as they will on a set. This can be a problem for even experienced talent as ADR sometimes takes place months after the shoot has wrapped, which is why I am such an advocate of dialog wilds being recorded immediately after a scene has been completed; those lines, with Vocalign and a little tweaking, work out great a larger percentage of the time.
ADR requires a lot of patience on the part of the director and the engineer, as well as some creativity and psychology. I don't know how much you have worked with singers as far as coaching a performance out of them, but it is a similar process - "that was good, but I know you can do better" - with a radically different mindset. What's nice about the digital age is you can keep all of the takes; back when we used analog tape once you did a new take the old one was gone forever.
No matter what you do it is never going to be a perfect match. Problem number one is the location. You can solve this with placing a similar mic the same approximate distance from the talent as long as your room is really dead. The biggest problem, however, is going to be the talent. Very rarely will they have the same vibe in a studio/booth as they will on a set. This can be a problem for even experienced talent as ADR sometimes takes place months after the shoot has wrapped, which is why I am such an advocate of dialog wilds being recorded immediately after a scene has been completed; those lines, with Vocalign and a little tweaking, work out great a larger percentage of the time.
ADR requires a lot of patience on the part of the director and the engineer, as well as some creativity and psychology. I don't know how much you have worked with singers as far as coaching a performance out of them, but it is a similar process - "that was good, but I know you can do better" - with a radically different mindset. What's nice about the digital age is you can keep all of the takes; back when we used analog tape once you did a new take the old one was gone forever.
Cool.
I have quite some experience with recording vocalists. I have even more experience recording voice overs.
Now, one of the guys I spoke to from Avid built his own ADR stage and made it half-live, 2 of the walls being regular dry-wall bare.
I guess sometimes you want that sort of echo?
I have quite some experience with recording vocalists. I have even more experience recording voice overs.
Now, one of the guys I spoke to from Avid built his own ADR stage and made it half-live, 2 of the walls being regular dry-wall bare.
I guess sometimes you want that sort of echo?
Some of the really high end ADR facilities use lots of gobos or even have sliding panels to adjust the resonance of the room. I have some home-made gobos made of Celotex and carpet that do an okay job.
These days a dead room is the preference; we have all of the neat impulse response and convolution reverbs to create and mimic spaces.
If you want really cool try an anechoic chamber; they are completely dead and completely isolated from outside sound to the point of ridiculousness. I love the story John Cage told of his first experience in an anechoic chamber. When he came out he complained to the engineer that he could still hear a few sounds. The engineer asked him what they were. Cage said he heard a high pitched squeal and a low rumble. The engineer explained that the squeal was his nervous system working and the low rumble was his digestive and circulatory system working. When I had the opportunity to visit an anechoic chamber I experienced this myself.
Speaking of the circulatory system working, make sure that you have a decent meal before doing Foley work. The other day I did some Foley work before dinner and my stomach rumbles were picked up on a couple of takes.
Speaking of the circulatory system working, make sure that you have a decent meal before doing Foley work. The other day I did some Foley work before dinner and my stomach rumbles were picked up on a couple of takes.
So I guess if someone had a pacemaker foley art wouldn't be the field for them
EDIT: Every time I see the title of this thread I yell to myself, 'it's separateLY!' lol
And I think you meant digestive system... crazy that you can hear the nervous system, everything else I could understand, but that baffles me...
Last edited:
I've had to take a guy's cappuchino away because the bubbles were coming onto the track.
I have also heard someone's heart-beat with my Schoeps 501 mic.
Then there was the time a cricket was in one of the vents and wreaked havoc.
And the time our neighbor decided to place a 5.1 system bolted to the wall adjacent to the recording booth so when he played something we would hear rumbles.
It's so funny what happens sometimes.
EDIT: it's okay to type Nozi...
I have also heard someone's heart-beat with my Schoeps 501 mic.
Then there was the time a cricket was in one of the vents and wreaked havoc.
And the time our neighbor decided to place a 5.1 system bolted to the wall adjacent to the recording booth so when he played something we would hear rumbles.
It's so funny what happens sometimes.
EDIT: it's okay to type Nozi...
Maybe I just need to hear what "acceptable" ADR sounds like so I can just stop worrying. My booth is already as dead as a morgue and I think I'm just a bit worried because I have never done something like this before. Know of anywhere I could hear some type of real ADR?
I did mention the digestive system. And yes, you can hear your nervous system in a completely anechoic chamber. Your nervous system is a network which transmits and receives electrical impulses and it can be heard; like I said, I've done it. If your TV set is turned off but is still plugged into the wall there is still electricity running through the electronics which can be heard in very a quiet room. The same principle applies to your nervous system, but the volume level is much lower, hence it can only be heard in an anechoic chamber.
95% of the dialog of the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy, the Omaha beach and battle for the bridge scenes in "Saving Private Ryan" or large portions of any action film.
Oh, I guess that you mean by itself before it's mixed in. Hmmmmm... If I get a chance I'll search my sound design info archives for the list of DVDs with extras pertaining to audio post.